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It's obvious his comment was hyperbolic. |
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And I have no idea what any of these means. Because an idiot is in the White House, NYC should destroy itself? :koko: Obviously local agencies will continue to push for improvements to Penn and other transit systems, even if the feds are presently hostile. These projects take years and you don't just throw up your hands and do nothing because there's an idiot in office, especially because states and localities can do a lot on their own. There will probably be five more Presidents before everything gets wrapped up with the Empire Station complex. Quote:
The underground North End of Grand Central, planned from the beginning, wasn't built until the 1990's, 80 years after the station was built. When you enter Grand Central from the north, along Madison, Park and Lex, you're using a section of the station that is only 25 years old. If you were in charge of the NY Central RR back in the early 1900's, you probably would have ordered terminal construction to halt, because the project was incomplete. Absurd. There is no perfect project. Quote:
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why are you advocating for doing nothing?
of course the costs for gateway balloon as time goes by, but at least the empire/penn station south costs will now be fixed in time. one piece at a time? ok so get done what you can. thats how it is at the moment. post trump who knows? hopefully someone will care about transit and will fund the tunnels after trump reneged on the deal in spite over his election results around here. |
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This plan is a travesty, he's just putting lipstick on a pig. MSG is the big elephant in the room that needs to be electrocuted like Thomas Edison did to Topsy and then shredded in a shredder like the degenerate it is. It's a turd and to be trying to doll it up is insulting to the citizens of NY (well, those that care about design which is probably like .0001 percent). Cuomo go back to dealing with LaGuardia (or maybe don't (air-train, oof!)) and get somebody who knows about train travel to fix Penn. :)
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^ exactly, for the most grand plans possible, the question is what is to be done with msg? because it would have to go.
for now, cuomo's plan is cheaper and more doable. he's dodging the dolan's tho, there is no doubt about that. |
Eminent domain could be used for Penn Station plans thanks to clause in state budget
https://s13.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...v2-650x405.jpg Quote:
TRD |
If anything, take the Garden by eminent domain. It's a POS on the streetscape.
And the Ed Logue / Bob Moses wannabe that Cuomo is better plan for a way to relocate St. John the Baptist Church. There are a few buildings worth saving on that block, and that one (with its rectory) would be a crime against NYC heritage to bulldoze for the sake of expanding an irreparably shi**y station. |
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The least expensive/difficult option wold probably be somewhere like Willets Point that has ample land. I assume the dumb LGA air train will inevitably be built and LIRR start running shuttles out there every 15 minutes or so on the Port Washington branch as the East Side Access will (crosses fingers and toes) be open by then so there would be plenty of transit access in addition to the 7 train. |
The Farley solution, the best solution, notwithstanding...
If MSG ever leaves Manhattan it will be to Sunnyside Yard. MSG doesn't need to leave the city and shouldn't have to BUT Sunnyside is the only other location with such a confluence of rail and assuming a new MSG would be built on top or adjacent to a new Sunnyside station serving subway connections, LIRR, Metro-North and even NJT through trains, it has no competition transportation wise or its centrality than, wait for it.... On top of or part of a new Port Authority Bus Terminal complex(including possibly over the Lincoln tunnel/PA bus ramp spaghetti. The PABT has more or less the same subway access than Penn and when you add in the bus connections it would not be significantly different access wise than a 34th St location. You could also incorporate that "infill" 41st St 7 station into the western side of the complex AS WELL AS modifying the West Side Line (Empire Connection) to terminate some Metro-North trains under a new modern PABT or at the very least a station integrated with a new 7 station that would serve a combined PABT and MSG sports/entertainment complex within a few blocks of Times Sq. I don't buy the argument that Manhattan doesn't have room for a relocated MSG. It just takes some imagination and will to make a special solution possible. If the need for public transportation connections wasn't a factor it could go all sorts of places: LES waterfront, east Harlem or Manhattanville in West Harlem, Sherman Creek up in Inwood just to name a few. And just to throw this in there you could in theory put it right on Madison Sq Park south of 23rd or east of Broadway but it would require massive demolitions and spanning of side streets to accomodate a sizable arena, but it would be pretty neat. |
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I thought about PABT. I probably would not spend all that money on 41st street or the Empire Connection. Penn is only one subway stop south and the 7 is readily accessed through the 41st Street passageway. The site does offer a big enough contiguous parcel to put MSG but the PA has even yet to figure out how/if/when they are going to replace the existing facility. Throwing MSG on top of it isn't likely to help clear things up anytime soon. |
Big Things Take Big Brains
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https://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/...tation-project
NY MTA selects firms to bid on Metro-North Penn Station project https://files.metro-magazine.com/ima...mta-nycdcp.jpg February 11, 2020 Quote:
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Waterloo managed just shy of 100mn with 19 tracks before it underwent a small expansion project and now has 24 (ridership dipped during the reconstruction but is forecast to grow substantially). Gare du Nord is busier but has more platforms. Of course, London and Paris have several termini station in the central core which distribute significantly higher volumes overall as well as through-running routes. Beyond the improved visual aesthetics, these stations also tend to have wider platforms, concourses capable of handling larger volumes of people, as well as more access points to aid in distribution of passengers. It also helps to have modern rolling-stock with walk-through carriages and wide doors for quick alighting. The two recurring problems facing commuter rail into New York are: i) the lack of access points (just 10 tracks for LIRR, MNR and NJT) into Manhattan, and ii) the lack of through running (the exception being Amtrak) which would drastically increase capacity by increasing platform utilisation. From an outsider’s perspective, the likes of East Side Access and Penn South come across as bloated projects with limited resolution to resolving regional issues. Everywhere else is moving away from increasing terminal commuter rail capacity because it isn’t an effective use of resources. |
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If will ship some, but not most of the LIRR traffic. It will allow more flexibility, which is what will open up Penn Station to Metro North. Both projects together will really change the face of commuting into New York City. But Penn Station will remain as crowded as ever, if not more so considering the shift in office space taking place on the west side, and around Penn Station in the future. This is where the expansions come in. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8xCKCAo7dO/ https://instagram.fatl1-2.fna.fbcdn....16&oe=5E8A4A69 |
Moderately off-topic, but does anyone know when the MTA is going to get around to repainting the Hell Gate Bridge? It looks terrible. Unfortunately red just does not perform well in the sun, and as happened last time, will just start fading in a few years. Hopefully a repaint is planned as part of the MNRR East Side Access scheme and they'll make it 100% again. Some cosmetic masonry work also needs to be performed before this most gorgeous bridge starts to deteriorate further. Dark charcoal or even jet black would look pretty damn cool and a nice substitute for the name-appropriate red.
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