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http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/de...0/4a19909v.jpg Quote:
The Farley building makes sense as a entrance for Amtrak passengers who are going on longer journeys. If you're taking a 3 1/2 hour train ride, walking another 5 minutes from Seventh to Eighth Avenues is not going to affect you. However, if you're taking a 30 minute ride on a suburban train every day, that five additional minutes of walk time is a big deal. Also, the Farley Annex does not lie above the existing platforms like the main part of the Farley building does, so you cannot access the platforms from it. |
If they could build something at Penn like the cavernous RER stations or the Madrid Sol station (large underground cavern), the experience would be far better. Just blast a cavern deep around the platforms/tracks that would be raised in the middle and accessed by escalator. Without moving the garden, a major underground cathedral to transport is the best they could aim for.
Go DEEP young man, LOL! The only way is down. |
Well, the oppurtunity was there a few years ago, but the costs bogged things down to the point where we would be lucky to get Moynihan completed sooner rather than later.
The first phase alone is expected to take about 4 to 5 years. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93825631/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93450455/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828869/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/86828840/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/84052631/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107968182/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141400631/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141400632/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141400633/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141400634/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141400635/original.jpg |
No, the opportunity is gone now because the city blew it. They didn't do enough to intice Dolan out of there which was a massive failure IMO. The garden won't move for at least 20 years I'm sure given the investment... that is why I said, think of something else to improve Penn. Make it a huge underground cavern. If you can't go up, go down. There is no other way now to create a decent commuter station. Monyihan station seems to be a mickey-mouse solution for Amtrak and doesn't solve the Penn problem now at all IMO.
Also, not being able to complete a small head-house station like Monyihan in a decade + is a blasphemy. Any other civilized developed country can build a new station within 5 years. Look at London. This country really has declined, it can no longer do big things. Thank God Europe can do something relatively quickly when it sets its mind to build. We'll all be old men before this country produces anything decent in the sphere of transportation. And if the Republicans win this year, good night for transit funding!!! That's when I say adios. |
Given the very low probability that MSG is going anywhere for a good 20-30 years maybe it's time to seriously consider through routing to the lower level of GCT or the East Side access for both Amtrak and NJT. The lower level of GCT has a bunch of unused track and platform space.
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The obstacle to building a tunnel between Penn Station and GCT is the proximity to Water Tunnel Number 1 which, if damaged during construction, would be catastrophic to the city. There's also a lot of other infrastructure in the way that a connecting tunnel would have to carefully wend its way around. Not impossible, but very difficult. |
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Presumably there is going to be another Hudson River tunnel well before Penn Station is rebuilt in a more useful form so I think this makes the most sense in the interim since Penn is out of platform capacity. Even though the ESA will free up slots it's not going to be enough for the next several decades it's going to take to get rid of MSG. |
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But while we're talking about what could have been, another blast from the past... http://www.richardmeier.com/www/#/pr...tates/2/363/0/ Quote:
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417222/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417223/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417224/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417225/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417226/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417227/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417228/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417229/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417230/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417233/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417231/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417232/original.jpg |
Thanks for the pics but it is a bit sad to look at them :(
Looking at past plans won't help us. We need to think of a new way to improve Penn now, given what is happening today. If the garden doesn't move, what is the best way to improve Penn? I say gut the station and modernize it. Remove some retail locations and make it more spacious. Since it is obvious that my idea of buying adjacent lots for a new head house won't work because the walk to the tracks would be longer, something else has to be looked for the next 20+ years. The whole place is too crowded. Taking Amtrak out would help free up space at least. Also, can someone please explain how GCT could be used for acela and NJT trains? ALso, it is a shame that the post office remains and can't move. The farley should be all amtrak. |
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Everything in green is what's proposed. They're showing a new tunnel under 31st Street and Park Avenue connecting tracks 1-4 of Penn Station to tracks 105-112 of GCT. http://www.nj-arp.org/arc_altg.gif http://www.nj-arp.org/arc4.html |
The New Gateway Project will have tail tracks that will extend past the New Penn station towards GCT which would be the next expansion project probably happen in the late 2020s if the Gateway Project starts now which its looking more likely....the Problem is there is very little room at GCT NJT or Amtrak so a new terminal would be needed.
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Sadly, not too much will help us because there's no money for most of it. As far as improving Penn Station though, the Farley extension (the post office will have a minor presence there, the lobby on the 8th Ave side) will relieve some of the congestion. I just left the place not too long ago, and even the pre-rush hour crowds are a bit much. It is dangerously overcrowded, particularly on the lower level where there are not many exits. That should be the main goal of any improvement there - quick exits from that lower concourse. Having daylight reach the tracks is fine, but not a necessity. As far as Grand Central goes, Amtrak used to run trains out of there, and currently the Long Island Railroad is on course with the opening of the "East Side Access" that will allow commuters the options of going to either Grand Central or Penn Station. As far as getting NJ Transit extended to Grand Central though, I wouldn't expect it in this generation. Maybe something could be done in conjunction with the 2nd Ave subway extension, but I doubt it. What the City is looking at now is the possibility of extending the 7 line into Secaucus. That in turn would connect NJ Transit trains with not only the west side, but Grand Central, the east side, and beyond (Queens). And it would be no different than what many commuters do now anyway, changing at Newark or Hoboken to PATH trains for more direct service. |
This is the closest thing we're going to get to an OLD Penn Station. BUT still not close as this was built as a POST OFFICE and Penn Station (old) was built as a TRANSPORTATION HUB.
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The plan to move MSG to the far westside is a good one. MSG is a black hole on the grid. In the new location it'll be fed by the west side highway and the brand new 7 station. Javits is another black hole. It makes a lot of sense to build a convention center closer to JFK. It might mean more infrastructure and development for the airport. Maybe in the long term it'll mean a direct connection from JFK to Manhattan.
Of course this is all fantasy, so why not hire Robert Stern to design a station over the current Penn Station? 15CPW is a palace for the 1%, why not give the 99% a palace of their own. |
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Afteral, this is like the 3 or 4th renovation of this arena. I think everything depends on the economy and how much those air rights mean to developers and how well the renovation is received. I think we'll see other development around Penn first though, that would establish it as another business hub. Then the demand for MSG rights might skyrocket if more good office space is required and other areas are built out. This would probably be 15+ years away. If the renovation is seen as average or uninspiring compared to the new arena in Brooklyn, that might push redevelopment too. If the economy hadn't collapsed, the deal might have been done. So sad. |
Another idea. How about closing a bunch of small cross streets blocks to traffic that are above concourses underground. Then you could have some kind of glass roof to open the station to the light?
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Some scope has been pulled out of Phase I, although if you read the whole article, it doesn't seem so dire.
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