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J_M_Tungsten Mar 23, 2016 4:23 AM

I wanted to see what Wolf Point looked like from my shot in the River Point page (looking west down the river). Height may not be perfect, but the yet to be built Wolf Point buildings will make a dramatic impact on that view.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...575A803207.jpg

Zapatan Mar 23, 2016 7:21 PM

Looks cool! Should be quite a bit taller though ;)

Kumdogmillionaire Mar 23, 2016 7:26 PM

I thought the new design had a spire, also it's a bit taller than that, should look a lot bigger than River Point. Still cool to see the potential future view

k1052 Apr 6, 2016 4:49 PM

Just walked by on my way to lunch and saw a soil testing rig working the east side of the site.

simon07 Apr 6, 2016 5:35 PM

Looking at that photo and seeing the gap between river point and wolf point south, I can only imagine how valuable that parking lot across the street on canal from river point now is. The value must have skyrocketed since all of this was announced, I think they could not have imagined in their wildest dreams that nothing would block their view east down the river...WOW

scalziand Apr 6, 2016 5:43 PM

Yeah, wasn't the River Point hotel tower originally supposed to block that view?

simon07 Apr 6, 2016 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 7397304)
Yeah, wasn't the River Point hotel tower originally supposed to block that view?

Originally yes....but then it was scrapped by the alderman if my memory is correct and Gibsons is now going into a small two story structure on the site....Jackpot.

BuildThemTaller Apr 7, 2016 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 7397205)
Just walked by on my way to lunch and saw a soil testing rig working the east side of the site.

Walked by on my way to the Brown Line at Merchandise Mart this evening after work. The soil testing rig was positioned on the south side of the lot. It was a little muddy, but it looked like it was busy on the east side, too. Might this mean both towers could go up at the same time?

LouisVanDerWright Apr 7, 2016 1:08 AM

^^^ It probably just means they wanted to save money by doing the soil testing simultaneously. I can't see them building both at once if only because the option of having an enormous staging area when building a 1,000' is a huge plus. Either way it's exciting that they are moving on soil testing, usually indicates forward momentum for a project.

LouisVanDerWright Apr 10, 2016 9:24 PM

No one got pictures of the soil testing rigs? I'd love to have seen where they were drilling.

munchymunch Apr 10, 2016 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7402623)
No one got pictures of the soil testing rigs? I'd love to have seen where they were drilling.

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/2...f-point-south/

jc5680 Apr 10, 2016 9:32 PM

From CAB Twitter


maru2501 Apr 11, 2016 2:38 PM

they need to know if the surface parking lot will be stable?

go go white sox Apr 11, 2016 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 7403189)
they need to know if the surface parking lot will be stable?

No I believe these are soil rigs so they can determine the amount of contaminating soil in the area.

maru2501 Apr 11, 2016 3:49 PM

yeah kidding. they filed paperwork at one point suggesting it would be turned back into parking until they build. Let's hope not

LouisVanDerWright Apr 11, 2016 9:00 PM

Soil testing usually means that they are working on the engineering of the building which isn't exactly cheap, but also ain't exactly impending construction either. They probably wanted to get that testing out of the way before paving it so they don't tear their new lot up drilling holes should they want to proceed with engineering drawings for either project. It's forward momentum, but who knows when these projects will start. Could be waiting another decade!

rlw777 Apr 11, 2016 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7403807)
Soil testing usually means that they are working on the engineering of the building which isn't exactly cheap, but also ain't exactly impending construction either. They probably wanted to get that testing out of the way before paving it so they don't tear their new lot up drilling holes should they want to proceed with engineering drawings for either project. It's forward momentum, but who knows when these projects will start. Could be waiting another decade!

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that we will be hearing about specifically the south tower pretty soon. I suspect that the south tower is going to be part condo part hotel. If that's the plan it won't surprise me if they move on this sooner rather than later. The market suggests we are right at the beginning of a little condo boom. Prices are above 2008 levels and are expected to continue to rise.

ithakas Apr 11, 2016 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlw777 (Post 7403998)
I am going to go out on a limb and guess that we will be hearing about specifically the south tower pretty soon. I suspect that the south tower is going to be part condo part hotel. If that's the plan it won't surprise me if they move on this sooner rather than later. The market suggests we are right at the beginning of a little condo boom. Prices are above 2008 levels and are expected to continue to rise.

Isn't this generally considered near the peak of the hotel boom though? They're also building another luxury hotel as part of Vista.

harryc Apr 12, 2016 3:00 AM

4/11
 
Double Drill

rlw777 Apr 12, 2016 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithakas (Post 7404032)
Isn't this generally considered near the peak of the hotel boom though? They're also building another luxury hotel as part of Vista.

Yes I think most folks think we are at or near the peak of the hotel boom. However it's worth noting that there are several hotel proposals very close to wolf point that may or may not get off the ground. Like 590 W Madison / Hubbard & Lasalle / and a few in the west loop. Also I'm not sure how much Magellan really cares about competition between Vista and the hypothetical WPS tower. I think that would be mostly the concern of Hines and Wanda.

maru2501 Apr 12, 2016 2:49 PM

if they were smart they would try to deliver before wanda, but maybe that's a stretch

BVictor1 Apr 13, 2016 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 7404606)
if they were smart they would try to deliver before wanda, but maybe that's a stretch

Big stretch as this has to have more neighborhood meetings and would have to go back before the plan commission.

munchymunch Apr 13, 2016 3:49 AM

I wonder how accurate this is...

Quote:

One big discussion was on the Wolf Point project with its developer Joseph P. Kennedy Enterprises’ chairman Chris Kennedy. This mega project has been in the process for some time. It will eventually be home to four buildings: a parking garage, which is open now; an apartment tower; and two other towers, one with one million square feet of office, with residential on top, and another that will likely house apartments. f

link


If this is true, it would be hard to imagine this one starting during the current office cycle.

Kumdogmillionaire Apr 13, 2016 4:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7405634)
I wonder how accurate this is...



link


If this is true, it would be hard to imagine this one starting during the current office cycle.


Just glancing at that website and I'm already leaning towards not trusting their word. My guess is they misheard, office with residential would just be inefficient building

rlw777 Apr 13, 2016 4:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7405634)
I wonder how accurate this is...



link


If this is true, it would be hard to imagine this one starting during the current office cycle.

I would think someone got mixed up. The PD includes around 1400 residential units 450 hotel rooms and then office space.

munchymunch Apr 13, 2016 4:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 7405659)
Just glancing at that website and I'm already leaning towards not trusting their word. My guess is they misheard, office with residential would just be inefficient building

Going through, you'd see that they are a legit company. Working with JDS development on a supertall tower in New York.

Kumdogmillionaire Apr 13, 2016 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7405674)
Going through, you'd see that they are a legit company. Working with JDS development on a supertall tower in New York.

Them being a real business isn't my point

jc5680 Apr 13, 2016 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 7405659)
Just glancing at that website and I'm already leaning towards not trusting their word. My guess is they misheard, office with residential would just be inefficient building

While not as common, there are plenty of examples of office/residential mixed use buildings. JHC would be a pretty good analogue for what is planned here.

I don't think claiming it would be 'just inefficient' actually weighs on it's likelihood.

Steely Dan Apr 13, 2016 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc5680 (Post 7405933)
While not as common, there are plenty of examples of office/residential mixed use buildings.

i can't think of too many office/residential mixed-use towers in chicago:

1. JHC
2. 900 N michigan
3. olympia center
4. one magnificent mile
5. mid-continental plaza (built as all office, retrofit of upper floors to residential)
6. doral plaza

am i missing any?

MultiModal Apr 13, 2016 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 7405986)
i can't think of too many office/residential mixed-use towers in chicago:

1. JHC
2. 900 N michigan
3. olympia center
4. one magnificent mile
5. mid-continental plaza (built as all office, retrofit of upper floors to residential)
6. doral plaza

am i missing any?

1 E Erie / Ontario Place.


Also, I would not take much stock into this information but on Costar (a commercial real estate site used by commercial brokers) it list the south tower as 1,800,000 SF proposed 2018 and the east tower as 1,500,000 SF proposed 2020. Once again, I would take that information with a grain of salt.

Steely Dan Apr 13, 2016 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7406020)
1 E Erie / Ontario Place.

i wasn't aware that ontario place had office usage, i thought it was all residential. you learn something new everyday.

spyguy Apr 13, 2016 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 7406035)
i wasn't aware that ontario place had office usage, i thought it was all residential.

Yup, it's an interesting little place on the inside.

Just off of the top of my head, there's also 2 E Erie (union offices), Axis on Ontario & LSD, 680 LSD, 30 E Huron, I believe River City? And there's probably even more.

maru2501 Apr 13, 2016 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7405572)
Big stretch as this has to have more neighborhood meetings and would have to go back before the plan commission.

in my head it's an approved PUD, but is that not right?

I thought it went through a redo

SamInTheLoop Apr 13, 2016 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7406020)
1 E Erie / Ontario Place.


Also, I would not take much stock into this information but on Costar (a commercial real estate site used by commercial brokers) it list the south tower as 1,800,000 SF proposed 2018 and the east tower as 1,500,000 SF proposed 2020. Once again, I would take that information with a grain of salt.


Yeah, a lot of stuff on CoStar should be taking with two handfuls of salt.....same for the quotes on the GRS-Global site........definitely don't get a 'highly credible' vibe from that.....

As ever, the most sensible program for remaining two towers would be residential and hotel for South, and office for East.....

Zapatan Apr 14, 2016 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7406020)

Also, I would not take much stock into this information but on Costar (a commercial real estate site used by commercial brokers) it list the south tower as 1,800,000 SF proposed 2018 and the east tower as 1,500,000 SF proposed 2020. Once again, I would take that information with a grain of salt.

While i'll take it with a grain of salt if those figures are true these towers will both be monsters, especially considering they'll be fairly thin considering the site isn't huge.

LouisVanDerWright Apr 15, 2016 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7408815)
4 of the 10 are U/C, and Wanda Vista has a good chance of being built. I think the other ones in S. Loop also have a good chance too. The only crapshoots up there IMO are the other Wolf Point buildings. I'd say that most of them have a good chance of being built.



It's funny you put that in writing, I have been under the assumption that Wolf Point is the least likely large tower to get off the ground any time soon as well. But upon further examination of that notion, I don't think it makes sense. I mean I think it's a leftover feeling from years of watching Wolf Point sit there empty. But now we have phase one of the project done and a team of developers including Magellan and Hines. Honestly it seems inevitable that construction starts on Wolf Point in the next couple of years. 1000 S Michigan, for example, just came out of nowhere, why is that more likely than phase 2 of a project that already started backed by extremely competent developers?

Chicago Shawn Apr 15, 2016 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 7406084)
in my head it's an approved PUD, but is that not right?

I thought it went through a redo

It is a PD, but Alderman Reilly forced a requirement that each additional phase go through the process all over again. This was a concession to the whiny neighbors complaining about the density that was already approved back in 1978, when of course no one lived nearby. In fact, the allowable density on Wolf Point was actually reduced from what was already approved in 1978 when the recent amending of the PD occurred.

Chi-Sky21 Apr 17, 2016 3:02 PM

I have always felt these towers were the MOST likely to get built. With who is behind this project i doubt they will have any troubles with financing or the city. You just don't turn down the Kennedy's.

MultiModal Apr 20, 2016 1:06 PM

The Kennedy have decided building another apartment building on the east end of Wolf Point. They aim to break ground on the high-rise by first-quarter 2017.

"Residents have already signed leases for about 30 percent of the apartments in the first Wolf Point tower, a 509-unit building called Wolf Point West that opened in January. About 10 percent of the units are occupied

The second tower will be “significantly larger” than Wolf Point West, Kennedy said, but he did not offer specifics. The zoning agreement that covers Wolf Point allows for a 750-foot tower on the east end of the riverside site, enough for a 60-story apartment building."


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...partment-tower


Doesn't 30% leased sound pretty low? I know it only opened a few month ago but still.

the urban politician Apr 20, 2016 1:24 PM

^ I'm surprised they aren't going condo with at least some of this building, being that it's the furthest east and thus won't have obstructed views

Notyrview Apr 20, 2016 1:56 PM

^^Wow this is fantastic news * amazing. It is so much better to have significantly more residential on wolf point imo. Two giant office towers would not only struggle to get built but, if built, would be void of life after hours. This also lends itself to a better mix of architecture on the site. Let's face it, the twin office towers are pretty bland, especially the 750 footer, and the skyline is better off without it. Pleasssse let bkl do this one. A proper tall highrise. please.

Oh nevermind, it's by Pelli. Still, an apartment tower should be interesting.

Steely Dan Apr 20, 2016 2:18 PM

interesting. i had always assumed that the east tower would be office and the south tower would be some mix of rental/condo/hotel.

spyguy Apr 20, 2016 3:58 PM

I'm pleasantly surprised to hear some news about the next tower. I always worry about the later phases of these projects never being realized due to market or developer problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 7414282)
interesting. i had always assumed that the east tower would be office and the south tower would be some mix of rental/condo/hotel.

This is from Hines' "Experience Record" file dated 6/30/15:

WOLF POINT SOUTH & EAST
Chicago, IL
2,000,000 sq. ft. mixed-use development that will
include:
Wolf Point South - a 1,270,000 sq. ft. office tower that
includes 270,000 sq. ft. of residential space in 150
condos and parking for 280 cars
Wolf Point East - a 600,000 sq. ft. residential tower that
will contain 700 units and parking for 170 cars
Part of Wolf Point development

Tom Servo Apr 20, 2016 4:04 PM

I'm curious, who would actually want to LIVE right there? It's such a strange location. You're essentially boxed in by Orleans and forced up to either Hubbard, Illinois, or Grand. It seems like such an inconvenience to be cornered like that. Also what's the nearest grocery store? The Jewel over on Desplaines? Again, to get there you have to drive around in a huge circle. I don't know, I was just thinking about how weird of a location this is... but then again I would never live anywhere downtown, so maybe it's just me

the urban politician Apr 20, 2016 4:07 PM

^ I would live there if I didn't have to work in bumblefuck Wisconsin every day and Chicago's school situation wasn't so jacked up.

UrbanLibertine Apr 20, 2016 4:32 PM

I'm glad this information finally broke. It was like torture wanting to spill the beans when everyone was complaining about how the towers might not go up and then with the soil testing speculation.

r18tdi Apr 20, 2016 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7414183)
The Kennedy have decided building another apartment building on the east end of Wolf Point. They aim to break ground on the high-rise by first-quarter 2017.

"Residents have already signed leases for about 30 percent of the apartments in the first Wolf Point tower, a 509-unit building called Wolf Point West that opened in January. About 10 percent of the units are occupied

The second tower will be “significantly larger” than Wolf Point West, Kennedy said, but he did not offer specifics. The zoning agreement that covers Wolf Point allows for a 750-foot tower on the east end of the riverside site, enough for a 60-story apartment building."


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...partment-tower

Doesn't 30% leased sound pretty low? I know it only opened a few month ago but still.

Looks like the article disappeared. Very interesting...

EDIT: my mistake, just a bad link

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 7414407)
Also what's the nearest grocery store? The Jewel over on Desplaines? Again, to get there you have to drive around in a huge circle.

The tower at Grand and Orleans (Clark and Barlow location) might be dead, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the grocery portion of that plan move forward.

rlw777 Apr 20, 2016 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 7414407)
I'm curious, who would actually want to LIVE right there? It's such a strange location. You're essentially boxed in by Orleans and forced up to either Hubbard, Illinois, or Grand. It seems like such an inconvenience to be cornered like that. Also what's the nearest grocery store? The Jewel over on Desplaines? Again, to get there you have to drive around in a huge circle. I don't know, I was just thinking about how weird of a location this is... but then again I would never live anywhere downtown, so maybe it's just me

I'm pretty sure it's just you.
On what planet is 5 blocks to a grocery store an inconvenience?

BVictor1 Apr 20, 2016 5:24 PM

An apartment tower will also allow for a smaller floor plate, which means we could get a more slender tower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 7414205)
^ I'm surprised they aren't going condo with at least some of this building, being that it's the furthest east and thus won't have obstructed views

When it's a condo building, you really can't flip it for a profit like a rental.


Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy (Post 7414400)
I'm pleasantly surprised to hear some news about the next tower. I always worry about the later phases of these projects never being realized due to market or developer problems.



This is from Hines' "Experience Record" file dated 6/30/15:

WOLF POINT SOUTH & EAST
Chicago, IL
2,000,000 sq. ft. mixed-use development that will
include:
Wolf Point South - a 1,270,000 sq. ft. office tower that
includes 270,000 sq. ft. of residential space in 150
condos and parking for 280 cars
Wolf Point East - a 600,000 sq. ft. residential tower that
will contain 700 units and parking for 170 cars
Part of Wolf Point development

That's interesting as the entire project is approved for over 3,000,000 square feet...

harryc Apr 20, 2016 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 7414407)
I'm curious, who would actually want to LIVE right there? It's such a strange location. You're essentially boxed in by Orleans and forced up to either Hubbard, Illinois, or Grand. It seems like such an inconvenience to be cornered like that. Also what's the nearest grocery store? The Jewel over on Desplaines? Again, to get there you have to drive around in a huge circle. I don't know, I was just thinking about how weird of a location this is... but then again I would never live anywhere downtown, so maybe it's just me

Lower Orelans to Kinzie is how I would envision residents getting their cars in and out.


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