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-   -   CHICAGO | Salesforce Tower | 850 FT | 60 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217949)

r18tdi Jul 16, 2015 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7097386)
why would they change it again....

Further VE'ing?

Notyrview Jul 16, 2015 5:52 PM

At this point I hope they do a complete redesign in the direction of Salesforce tower in SF.

r18tdi Jul 16, 2015 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7097380)
The previous design was boring.

No, not if you really love shampoo!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/bzzagent-bz...dspice-lrg.png

Steely Dan Jul 16, 2015 7:59 PM

CHICAGO | Wolf Point - South & East Towers | ~950 ft & ~750 FT
 
as requested by many of you, these towers now have their own thread.

aaron38 Jul 17, 2015 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT (Post 7096772)

See that's nice, continuing the form and flow of the building up to a point. Much better. If only that were the real proposal.

SamInTheLoop Jul 17, 2015 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 7097625)
At this point I hope they do a complete redesign in the direction of Salesforce tower in SF.


Agreed. If PCP does turn out to indeed be the actual design architect of the S Tower, it needs a redo. Let's get completely rid of this pomo(ish) 'flair'. We're past that silliness.

They do have the ability to design some very nice facades. I believe Salesforce will turn out to be a good example. But one doesn't have to look far in San Francisco to find the ultimate example of this from PCP - the fantastic 560 Mission - which is a crown jewel in Pelli's portfolio. This is where they should be looking for inspiration from their own work.

Let's be clear though - this new rendering of the south tower design is a clear downgrade from the earlier design......if it's a choice between the two, the earlier version wins in a landslide (obviously ideally, that version would have some definite refinement......)

joeg1985 Jul 17, 2015 6:24 PM

The previous look was so boring. This round is so much better. Like the height and like the setbacks on both these towers. Great additions to the river.

HomrQT Jul 18, 2015 2:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 7097676)
No, not if you really love shampoo!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/bzzagent-bz...dspice-lrg.png

Ironically 150 N Riverside reminds me of this...

http://www.addictedtosaving.com/wp-c...09/pantene.jpg

HomrQT Jul 18, 2015 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 7098583)
See that's nice, continuing the form and flow of the building up to a point. Much better. If only that were the real proposal.

Thanks, I think adding the point in such a manner creates sort of a regal effect in keeping with the seemingly art deco influence they're trying to apply.

TallBob Jul 18, 2015 4:03 AM

So is going to be a little taller than the 950' advertised?

Kngkyle Jul 18, 2015 5:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallBob (Post 7099567)
So is going to be a little taller than the 950' advertised?

If one of us knew that, don't you think we would have said?

Zapatan Jul 18, 2015 5:50 AM

^The new rendering clearly shows a taller building with more floors.

BVictor1 Jul 18, 2015 6:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 7099619)
^The new rendering clearly shows a taller building with more floors.

The new rendering clearly shows a spire on the south tower. As I've mentioned, the PD states that the height to the bottom of the top slab is 950' for the south tower and 750' for the east tower. This doesn't necessarily include mechanical penthouses, blade overruns, or spires.

ardecila Jul 18, 2015 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 7098903)
But one doesn't have to look far in San Francisco to find the ultimate example of this from PCP - the fantastic 560 Mission - which is a crown jewel in Pelli's portfolio. This is where they should be looking for inspiration from their own work.

Some images from the last public meeting indicated that PCP was considering this kind of intricate facade with terra cotta elements.

I imagine if 560 Mission was transplanted to Chicago, it would have big problems with icing. The NY Times tower has a similar design in a cold climate, and it continues to have issues with icing.

Zapatan Jul 19, 2015 4:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7099634)
The new rendering clearly shows a spire on the south tower. As I've mentioned, the PD states that the height to the bottom of the top slab is 950' for the south tower and 750' for the east tower. This doesn't necessarily include mechanical penthouses, blade overruns, or spires.

Right that's what I'm saying... the tower is now over 1000' even if you don't count the spire.

The Lurker Jul 19, 2015 1:46 PM

The tower is now zero feet. If built it will top out at 983 feet.

ChiTownWonder Jul 21, 2015 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lurker (Post 7100463)
The tower is now zero feet. If built it will top out at 983 feet.

Or 299.6 meters...

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Skyguy_7 Aug 7, 2015 1:53 PM

Apologies for the relatively meaningless thread bump, but I was day dreaming about this one, and I can't recall anyone pointing out the crown's defining characteristic- It's an inverted "Y", with a geometry that's clearly inspired by the Confluence. Nice touch, Pelli.

LouisVanDerWright Aug 7, 2015 2:40 PM

Lol, I see it too, that's great especially if that really was his intent. With WPW finishing up, I'm itching to hear more on this one, please bump with news that WPS is breaking ground next time.

trvlr70 Sep 22, 2015 1:48 PM

Are there any hints that once construction is over at the apartment tower that they will begin work on the next two towers? I'm going to hate it if they begin to lay down asphalt for the parking lot and install landscaping.

BVictor1 Sep 22, 2015 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trvlr70 (Post 7172502)
Are there any hints that once construction is over at the apartment tower that they will begin work on the next two towers? I'm going to hate it if they begin to lay down asphalt for the parking lot and install landscaping.

There will be a community meeting prior to each new phase.

Skyguy_7 Oct 16, 2015 12:52 PM

Since the West Tower sales center is now up, I imagine they're going to try to fill the building before beginning phase II.
:slob:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20151015134259
Rendering by Crains

Also of note- "Renderings of the two future Wolf Point buildings that surfaced on the Internet over the summer depict a sleek tapering spire on the middle, tallest building, but Hines representatives say the renderings were not accurate or final. They won't comment on what Wolf Point will look like" :/ I love the south tower design.
Per Crains.

go go white sox Jan 3, 2016 1:09 AM

I wonder how long until we get something on the real gem of this project Wolf point south tower.

Pilton Jan 6, 2016 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go go white sox (Post 7286114)
I wonder how long until we get something on the real gem of this project Wolf point south tower.


WPS? Depends on demand for office and high price condos.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...-office-towers

maru2501 Jan 6, 2016 6:00 PM

at least they haven't turned the rest of the site into a parking lot just yet

VKChaz Jan 6, 2016 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 7289853)
at least they haven't turned the rest of the site into a parking lot just yet

Does anyone know what the interim plan is?

Zapatan Jan 6, 2016 8:49 PM

Well at least the article said the vacancy rate for office space at least is at an all time low since 2008. If it's a mixed used tower which I think it is that means Wolf point South still probably has a chance at getting built I assume.

Kngkyle Jan 6, 2016 9:07 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the South tower is changed from office to condos and a hotel. I don't see an office tower being built there for awhile given the current market conditions. Not unless they can pull someone big from the suburbs or out of town. Condos on the other hand... that location is pretty prime.

Zapatan Jan 6, 2016 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 7290160)
I wouldn't be surprised if the South tower is changed from office to condos and a hotel. I don't see an office tower being built there for awhile given the current market conditions. Not unless they can pull someone big from the suburbs or out of town. Condos on the other hand... that location is pretty prime.

Well, maybe a little office space and have the rest be a hotel or condos. Although I do hope if it's all hotel/condos that it remains 1000+. This is such a perfect location for a supertall that it would be a damn shame if the other towers fell through.

rlw777 Jan 7, 2016 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 7290160)
I wouldn't be surprised if the South tower is changed from office to condos and a hotel. I don't see an office tower being built there for awhile given the current market conditions. Not unless they can pull someone big from the suburbs or out of town. Condos on the other hand... that location is pretty prime.

I don't think it was ever an announcement that the south tower would be office to begin with.

Zapatan Jan 7, 2016 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlw777 (Post 7290405)
I don't think it was ever an announcement that the south tower would be office to begin with.

From what I heard it would be mixed use which would mean office + other stuff

The Lurker Jan 8, 2016 6:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 7291592)
From what I heard it would be mixed use which would mean office + other stuff

Not necessarily. Mixed use could easily and actually more likely mean residential + hotel. office space usually plays alone

HomrQT Jan 9, 2016 1:02 AM

Whoever buys in the West tower can reasonably assume their East view is going to be blocked sooner than later?

colemonkee Jan 9, 2016 1:13 AM

^ The west tower is rental, no?

ardecila Jan 9, 2016 8:18 AM

I think a more likely scenario is launching the East Tower as condos first before the South Tower. Then Hines could wait for the next market cycle to launch office leasing for the South Tower. The location is near irresistible for office tenants, there just aren't many large tenants looking for space at top rates right now.

That said, I'm not sure offhand if it's practical to build the South Tower after the East is completed. Seems pretty difficult from a construction standpoint, but I'm sure they could stage from the lower level somehow, or from a barge if they had to.

J_M_Tungsten Jan 9, 2016 4:15 PM

From a construction standpoint, wouldn't building both at the same time be best? Wishful thinking though

rlw777 Jan 9, 2016 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7293375)
I think a more likely scenario is launching the East Tower as condos first before the South Tower. Then Hines could wait for the next market cycle to launch office leasing for the South Tower. The location is near irresistible for office tenants, there just aren't many large tenants looking for space at top rates right now.

That said, I'm not sure offhand if it's practical to build the South Tower after the East is completed. Seems pretty difficult from a construction standpoint, but I'm sure they could stage from the lower level somehow, or from a barge if they had to.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. More likely than what? The programming for the east and west towers haven't been announced. We do know that there will be a hotel, office and residential component to the rest of the development. The most logical arrangement of those components based on what usually gets built in Chicago would be that the south tower would be hotel and condo while the east tower would be office.

I say that because generally speaking as someone pointed out above office stands alone. But also notice that the east tower is the general size of just about every office tower proposal we've had the past few years and that usually when a developer combines hotel and condo they go for height and use some of the hotel services for the residences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten (Post 7293525)
From a construction standpoint, wouldn't building both at the same time be best? Wishful thinking though

Good question. I don't know but I would think it's probably better to build the south tower first and then the east tower for logistical reasons. It makes sense to use the footprint of the east tower for staging materials for the south tower. Then with the east tower you would have to use the street.

LouisVanDerWright Jan 9, 2016 8:48 PM

The floorplates of the South Tower make no sense for office especially compared to the East Tower. This is Hines we are talking about. Does anyone really think they are going to hold a board meeting where everyone will sit down and say:

"Let's take the building that is 750' tall with 50,000 SF floorplates and make that condos. Then we can take the 1000' tall building with 30,000 SF floorplates and make it office. That way the office building can have a loss ratio of 20 or 25 % and the condos will be a tube with a little window at the end."

The developer is looking for the highest and best use for each program given the set parameters of the PD. They are not going to build them in a less profitable use let alone select and less profitable use for both buildings simply because office tenants would think 800' views were cool. The location of the South Tower is also less desirable than the East Tower because it is significantly less visible and accessible than the East Tower which you view it from a leasing perspective.

Kngkyle Jan 9, 2016 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7293764)
The floorplates of the South Tower make no sense for office especially compared to the East Tower. This is Hines we are talking about. Does anyone really think they are going to hold a board meeting where everyone will sit down and say:

"Let's take the building that is 750' tall with 50,000 SF floorplates and make that condos. Then we can take the 1000' tall building with 30,000 SF floorplates and make it office. That way the office building can have a loss ratio of 20 or 25 % and the condos will be a tube with a little window at the end."

The developer is looking for the highest and best use for each program given the set parameters of the PD. They are not going to build them in a less profitable use let alone select and less profitable use for both buildings simply because office tenants would think 800' views were cool. The location of the South Tower is also less desirable than the East Tower because it is significantly less visible and accessible than the East Tower which you view it from a leasing perspective.

Weren't the designs largely just rough outlines though? I was under the impression that the height and design (thus floorplate) for the South and East tower were not finalized.

pilsenarch Jan 10, 2016 3:10 PM

^Let's hope the designs aren't finalized...

LouisVanDerWright Jan 10, 2016 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilsenarch (Post 7294326)
^Let's hope the designs aren't finalized...

I'm not saying the designs are finalized, but the massing is pretty much locked in which is all that matters when it comes to the efficiency of one program over another. They agreed to preserve certain view lines and that means they can't just make the south towe fatter to accommodate office more efficently or anything like that.

MultiModal Jan 27, 2016 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7294368)
I'm not saying the designs are finalized, but the massing is pretty much locked in which is all that matters when it comes to the efficiency of one program over another. They agreed to preserve certain view lines and that means they can't just make the south towe fatter to accommodate office more efficently or anything like that.

I heard from someone at Hines today that they expect delivery on the South Tower in 2020/2021. His words were they didn't want to start too soon to River Point so they did not compete with each other. Also, he mentioned he was told that the renderings are not placeholders and should stay the same with only minor design changes.

Steely Dan Jan 27, 2016 6:43 PM

^ thanks for the update! :tup:

Domer2019 Jan 27, 2016 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7315004)
I heard from someone at Hines today that they expect delivery on the South Tower in 2020/2021. His words were they didn't want to start too soon to River Point so they did not compete with each other. Also, he mentioned he was told that the renderings are not placeholders and should stay the same with only minor design changes.

Delivery as in following through with their plans, or completion?

Steely Dan Jan 27, 2016 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer2019 (Post 7315226)
Delivery as in following through with their plans, or completion?

in the development world, "delivery" usually refers to completion, as in delivery of the product (condos, apartments, office space, etc.) to the marketplace.

if they hold to that timeline, shovels would most likely go in the ground sometime in 2018.

pilsenarch Jan 28, 2016 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7315004)
I heard from someone at Hines today that they expect delivery on the South Tower in 2020/2021. His words were they didn't want to start too soon to River Point so they did not compete with each other. Also, he mentioned he was told that the renderings are not placeholders and should stay the same with only minor design changes.

Well, I'm still praying they change... the Pelli designs remind me of something built in, like, Minneapolis in the '90s...

spyguy Jan 29, 2016 2:31 AM

Since WPW is now in the "completed" section, here's that plus the remainder of the site:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1668/...55097253_b.jpg20160123-_DSF9523 by Jeffrey Wang, on Flickr

SamInTheLoop Feb 1, 2016 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7294368)
I'm not saying the designs are finalized, but the massing is pretty much locked in which is all that matters when it comes to the efficiency of one program over another. They agreed to preserve certain view lines and that means they can't just make the south towe fatter to accommodate office more efficently or anything like that.



I've almost completely missed the floorplate size differential between s and e towers in my previous multiple attempts to explain why office in the s tower is unlikely. But, this is even a more compelling reason probably.

The e tower is perfectly suited for a single use office tower...right massing, right floorplate, right height, situated right within the overall wp footprint....on and on.....while the s tower works better as a resi/hotel combo.........

jsbrook Feb 9, 2016 4:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal (Post 7315004)
I heard from someone at Hines today that they expect delivery on the South Tower in 2020/2021. His words were they didn't want to start too soon to River Point so they did not compete with each other. Also, he mentioned he was told that the renderings are not placeholders and should stay the same with only minor design changes.

How about the East Tower? West Tower turned out to be a stunner!

Skyguy_7 Feb 9, 2016 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 7320480)
...snip...

The e tower is perfectly suited for a single use office tower...right massing, right floorplate, right height, situated right within the overall wp footprint....on and on.....while the s tower works better as a resi/hotel combo.........

Sam, what you're saying makes sense, as far as the South tower being resi/hotel, but what do you make of Hines' concern about this tower "competing" with River Point, which would imply it's going to be at least partially office.

Imagine, office within the first 700' and then hotel after the setback above. Dear Tower Gods, just this one time, please let hotel on the upper-floors be profitable.


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