SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Skyscraper & Highrise Construction (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=103)
-   -   CHICAGO | Salesforce Tower | 850 FT | 60 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217949)

munchymunch Jul 13, 2015 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign (Post 7093662)
I gotta say, I think the south tower would look better without the spire, supertall status be damned.

I usually hate spires but I kind of like it on this one. Hopefully they don't fuck it up like 1 WTC.

GregBear24 Jul 13, 2015 9:14 PM

Tired of BS
 
I rarely post anything on here, but nothing drives me more through the ceiling than people complaining about density in the core of America's second largest urban center (LA doesn't count since Downers Grove would fit in LA County). When I moved to the city at 13th and Michigan in 2006, that area was so quiet despite being a block from Grant Park, but when 4 new high rises went up within 2 blocks of me, I was more excited about the growth of small businesses and the addition of entertainment and street life. Certainly, some people on Prairie and Indiana in the low rises didn't like it so much, but here's the bottom line:

When anyone decides to live within a few miles of the center of a large city's core, they effectively waive their right to oppose development based on density. You don't like too many parking spaces? Fine. You don't like the street level design and interaction the building would have with pedestrians? Fine. However, wanting some reasonable changes is a lot different from opposing something because it'll add traffic, block your views, create noise, and add people to your neighborhood. You live in Chicago, and it's what you signed up for. The quiet neighborhoods within the city's core should never have even existed in the first place, and even so are inevitably going to lose out to property values that will demand much more $ per square foot in the long run. Wolf Point is centralized very well in the middle of our nation's second largest city core. It commands density and unofficial landmark status in high rise design and use. NIMBYs have a purpose, but they make their reasonable points of opposition practically moot when they start bantering about their so-called unalienable rights to live in a cute, calm town on a river. Move to beautiful Batavia, Geneva, St. Charles if that's what you want. A river, some decent architecture and history, and less traffic. Then, you can complain when someone wants to build a 2million sf development next to your house and have logic on your side for once. I can't wait for Wolf Pointe to build out and stand impressive on the river's Y!

Domer2019 Jul 13, 2015 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7093355)
A bit of information...

The architects of both the south and east tower is indeed Pelli/Clarke/Pelli

The south PD allows for 950'. However, this usually means to the underside of the top floor and doesn't include fins, blades, or spires. The height to the top of the spire is still TBD. Number of floors is TBD.

The PD for the east tower allows 750', floors TBD.

Timetable for the start of Phase II is still TBD.

I know this isn't much, but it's what i have right now.


Does this mean that the current design's roof height is close to 950'? Because I thought the consensus was that it is near if not more than 1000', and that both current and past designs were definitively over 950'. I'm confused as to whether a new PD will happen, or if there is less to be certain about height-wise than we think. (does mechanical space count?)

munchymunch Jul 13, 2015 10:19 PM

Underside of top floor so.

950 + the top floor,crown, spires, and parapet.

LouisVanDerWright Jul 13, 2015 10:28 PM

I think it would be sick if they could incorporate the municipal device into the detailing of this building in some way. The new design is a bit more throwback and Pomo, so they may as well do it right and embed little Y's in the mullions or the crown or something. This is the right site for it considering this site is what the Y represents.

Zapatan Jul 13, 2015 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7094008)
Underside of top floor so.

950 + the top floor,crown, spires, and parapet.

When comparing it to the other buildings in pixels it's at least 1000' to the roof, probably a little higher. The spire probably close to 1100 or more? :shrug:

This will be an awesome addition.

ardecila Jul 14, 2015 3:43 AM

I just found an interior rendering for the new Wolf Point Hotel:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/43ff7d75b...gbto1_1280.jpg

Ugh. :facepalm: Such disappoint.

emathias Jul 14, 2015 4:23 AM

TimeOut has small picture of Wolf Point with the south tower sporting a spire.
http://media.timeout.com/images/102776957/image.jpg
TimeOut Chicago

Taller Jul 14, 2015 5:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7094369)
TimeOut has small picture of Wolf Point with the south tower sporting a spire.
http://media.timeout.com/images/102776957/image.jpg
TimeOut Chicago

Make that 1250 feet tall and it would look nice, with an illuminated changing color spire. :notacrook:

Tom Servo Jul 14, 2015 7:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7094369)
TimeOut has small picture of Wolf Point with the south tower sporting a spire.
http://media.timeout.com/images/102776957/image.jpg
TimeOut Chicago

Wow. That looks almost cartoonishly tall. Hopefully we don't end up with something so graceless.

BVictor1 Jul 14, 2015 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 7094453)
Wow. That looks almost cartoonishly tall. Hopefully we don't end up with something so graceless.

How is it "cartoonishly tall and graceless"? Care to elaborate?

Notyrview Jul 14, 2015 1:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 7094453)
Wow. That looks almost cartoonishly tall. Hopefully we don't end up with something so graceless.

I think the cladding will make or break this buildings cartoonish-ness. Also, the earlier comment about revising the setbacks was an astute one. That would help with its grace.

killaviews Jul 14, 2015 1:41 PM

I think I like the original design better. The bow shape of the original south tower is more stylish and unique than the new designed. I almost wish it was a hybrid of both towers - keep the bow shape and add setbacks and a spire.

This could be a cost saving design. A tower without curves is probably cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markh9 (Post 5716885)
Forgive the glare.

http://i.imgur.com/1UIhz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IkApU.jpg

A few notes to follow...


sentinel Jul 14, 2015 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killaviews (Post 7094570)
I think I like the original design better. The bow shape of the original south tower is more stylish and unique than the new designed. I almost wish it was a hybrid of both towers - keep the bow shape and add setbacks and a spire.

This could be a cost saving design. A tower without curves is probably cheaper.

I loathe the bowed middle of the original design - looks like an overweight skyscraper trying to fit into skinny jeans. The new design isn't groundbreaking, but at least it's a little more elegant.

BVictor1 Jul 14, 2015 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 7094586)
I loathe the bowed middle of the original design - looks like an overweight skyscraper trying to fit into skinny jeans. The new design isn't groundbreaking, but at least it's a little more elegant.

I agree to a point. I wasn't a big fan of the bow either, but it would have been awesome if it were a cantilever akin to the Sofitel, projecting over the river.

Ned.B Jul 14, 2015 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killaviews (Post 7094570)
I think I like the original design better. The bow shape of the original south tower is more stylish and unique than the new designed. I almost wish it was a hybrid of both towers - keep the bow shape and add setbacks and a spire.

This could be a cost saving design. A tower without curves is probably cheaper.

It's also cheaper to have a tower where all of the floors are the same shape within each zone rather than having every floor slightly different, and therefore requiring custom slab edge form-work and a slightly different curtain wall design on every floor.

I'm not sold on the new design though. Like others have said, the proportions on the south tower setbacks are awkward and need more study.

jcchii Jul 14, 2015 2:59 PM

it reminded me of some kind of larva before

munchymunch Jul 14, 2015 3:21 PM

This building is in a hard spot, it has to find away to address the south and main branch. Hopefully Cesar Pelli can pull it of.

Zapatan Jul 14, 2015 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taller (Post 7094398)
Make that 1250 feet tall and it would look nice, with an illuminated changing color spire. :notacrook:

At second glance, judging by the neighboring buildings (500 and 700+ ish) it looks to be at least approaching the 1200 range (to spire) so probably not too far off. :)

BrandonJXN Jul 14, 2015 3:38 PM

http://i.imgur.com/IkApU.jpg

I haven't seen this rendering of Wolf Point before. Now that I have, I'm *much* happier with the redesign. It's far more graceful than this fat thing.

Ch.G, Ch.G Jul 14, 2015 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer2019 (Post 7092765)
I think the previous design had a lot more cohesiveness and looked very graceful over the river. This new render/proposal has a bit of in your face magnificence, begging viewers to look at it rather than 150 or 444. And really the lack of cohesiveness doesn't matter that much, because in terms of the skyline, the South and East towers will stand out a lot more and be much more recognizable. The East tower's design is now vastly superior to the blob it was before. It also looks like they've added green space in front of it; I'm not sure what spurred that.

I'm also confused as to why the glass appears to different than the West, perhaps they just wanted to copy+paste? Maybe it's just the shadows/reflections

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 7092777)
Agreed.

Though I think the new East Tower is a sizable improvement I actually think the new South Tower loses some of its more refinded subtleties. It looks 1980s to me. Without much in the way in the way of significant added height. Plus I find spires to be often overused (especially in NYC over the last decade) and this tower is a case in point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 7093339)
I may be in the minority but it looked better before.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21 (Post 7093364)
I like the old south tower better also...i do like the new east tower better though. I think the real deciding factor for me is when i get to see a view of it from the side.

I agree with all of you. I am not a fan of the new South Tower design from this perspective. It's kind of a mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 7094586)
I loathe the bowed middle of the original design - looks like an overweight skyscraper trying to fit into skinny jeans.

I also agree with this assessment. IMO, the design would have been better served if they maintained the below elevation on all sides:

http://images.photo1.walgreens.com/2...84286324nu0mrj

...something akin to the PCP Salesforce Tower going up in San Francisco:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_Proposal.jpg

Ch.G, Ch.G Jul 14, 2015 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7094332)
I just found an interior rendering for the new Wolf Point Hotel:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/43ff7d75b...gbto1_1280.jpg

Is this a joke? :uhh:

jcchii Jul 14, 2015 3:54 PM

^ who doesn't want a parrot sitting over the bed

Domer2019 Jul 14, 2015 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN (Post 7094709)
http://i.imgur.com/IkApU.jpg

I haven't seen this rendering of Wolf Point before. Now that I have, I'm *much* happier with the redesign. It's far more graceful than this fat thing.

Now that you say that, the old one somehow reminds me of a 1 WTC that's been sliced by a katana.

ardecila Jul 14, 2015 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G (Post 7094726)
Is this a joke? :uhh:

yes

Actually, the new design is growing on me a little bit. I need to see a side view, but the slenderness is appealing. Except for that damn spire. :yuck::yuck:

Tom Servo Jul 14, 2015 6:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7094526)
How is it "cartoonishly tall and graceless"? Care to elaborate?

It looks like something you get if you asked a 12 year old to draw you a "really tall building"... or maybe like you took a 500 foot tall building out of Dallas or Charlotte or somewhere, clad it in glass (that awful blue glass that is oh so tiresome), and stretched it to double it's height. Oh, and then added a stick on the top. Come on guys, exit the 1990s for god's sake.

I mean, I knew Pelli Clarke Pelli kind of sucked as a firm, but come on. They should at least try to create something half as strong as the tower next door.

intrepidDesign Jul 14, 2015 7:25 PM

Quick shop job showing WPS with no spire and lower shoulders.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps54yhvkvo.jpg

jcchii Jul 14, 2015 7:27 PM

seems if you like the trump spire you would like this one

Kenmore Jul 14, 2015 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign (Post 7095075)
Quick shop job showing WPS with no spire and lower shoulders.

nice

munchymunch Jul 14, 2015 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign (Post 7095075)
Quick shop job showing WPS with no spire and lower shoulders.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps54yhvkvo.jpg

Wow, nevermind this looks a lot better without a spire.

Steely Dan Jul 14, 2015 7:37 PM

side by side:

http://media.timeout.com/images/102776957/image.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps54yhvkvo.jpg

i guess i don't find the spire to be anywhere near as offensive as many others seem to. the spire neither makes or breaks this design for me.

Rbsanford Jul 14, 2015 8:15 PM

I too have no strong opinions about the spire, but the lowered shoulders are a big improvement.

Swicago Swi Sox Jul 14, 2015 8:58 PM

Now this is all I can think of...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...Ic42/Shrug.PNG

jcchii Jul 14, 2015 9:00 PM

lowered shoulders it looks like a giant ghost of NBC tower

Domer2019 Jul 15, 2015 4:41 AM

I actually think a needle head design really complements its form

Maybe something else is needed WITH it, but it's an interesting concept

http://i.imgur.com/oSOtePj.jpg

Notyrview Jul 15, 2015 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swicago Swi Sox (Post 7095202)

Lol, I know, the more discerning forumers have really put this one in perspective.

Edit: My biggest concern is the blue glass. They should go with something more reserved to balance the kookiness of the design.

go go white sox Jul 15, 2015 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 7095799)
Lol, I know, the more discerning forumers have really put this one in perspective.

Edit: My biggest concern is the blue glass. They should go with something more reserved to balance the kookiness of the design.

Being that this is just a rendering I doubt they will use exactly the same glass colors it shows just look at the west building id think they would match that similarly for cohesiveness

aaron38 Jul 15, 2015 2:05 PM

Definitely cleaner without the spire. It looks like a glued on afterthought.

Ryanrule Jul 15, 2015 2:55 PM

dont lower the shoulders, raise the height of the building.

SamInTheLoop Jul 15, 2015 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7094927)
yes

Actually, the new design is growing on me a little bit. I need to see a side view, but the slenderness is appealing. Except for that damn spire. :yuck::yuck:


I've gotta say - I'm just the opposite here with respect to the evolution of my reaction to this new placeholder design - Wasn't crazy about it at first, and appears worse each time I view it.....it's awkward, proportions are all wrong, it's frankly dull, the spire is absolutely goofy, etc. Have to say, I'm with Mr. Servo all the way - the overall Wolf Point project got off to a tremendous bang, design-wise with the exceptionally nice West Tower.......this S tower version, without a major re-working of various facets would be a dud, and pale in comparison next to it........

But again, I have virtually no reason to think of this as anything but just another placeholder, so not sweating it........

munchymunch Jul 15, 2015 9:54 PM

DNA has some comments from Hines. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2015...d-towers-spire

The rendering have also been taken down from the wolf point website, replaced with "Coming Soon".

Domer2019 Jul 15, 2015 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7096501)
DNA has some comments from Hines. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2015...d-towers-spire

The rendering have also been taken down from the wolf point website, replaced with "Coming Soon".

Would this suggest that the design isn't finalized, or that they're waiting to release things in a more formal setting/manner?

CHI -21c Jul 16, 2015 12:13 AM

Sure makes Wanda Vista look stupid.
The extra setbacks, terraces, and decorative windows add a sense of scale.

I don't think it's much taller --just a detailed design. See how important detail is?

Too toy-like, needs some refining.
No blue!

HomrQT Jul 16, 2015 2:01 AM

My *very quick* attempt

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/257/1...98e079ab_o.jpg

Wolf Point Mockup
by HomrQT, on Flickr

Notyrview Jul 16, 2015 2:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHI -21c (Post 7096645)
Sure makes Wanda Vista look stupid.
The extra setbacks, terraces, and decorative windows add a sense of scale.

I don't think it's much taller --just a detailed design. See how important detail is?

Too toy-like, needs some refining.
No blue!

No

Kenmore Jul 16, 2015 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT (Post 7096772)

:notacrook:

rgolch Jul 16, 2015 1:23 PM

The spire looks fine.... Man o man you guys are tough to please.

The building redesign looks promising, but it's hard to say much from only one perspective. I would have thought more people would be happy that it's probably going to break 1000 ft. My only question is this.... What will trigger the green light and start of construction. Seems like the office market is going have a lot of upcoming supply with several new buildings under construction. Might be a while before this even breaks ground... Presuming it does at all.

UPChicago Jul 16, 2015 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7096501)
DNA has some comments from Hines. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2015...d-towers-spire

The rendering have also been taken down from the wolf point website, replaced with "Coming Soon".

Good, I hope that the design is more inline with the previous design!

BVictor1 Jul 16, 2015 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 7097377)
Good, I hope that the design is more inline with the previous design!

The previous design was boring.

munchymunch Jul 16, 2015 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 7097377)
Good, I hope that the design is more inline with the previous design!

why would they change it again....


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.