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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8874523)
Chicago just closed the Lakefront after witnessing too many people congregating yesterday. The mayor warned she would do that--I guess with yesterday's beautiful weather some people couldn't help themselves. I don't understand what's so hard about keeping a few feet between ourselves when walking outside but here we are.

Stupid. Just ticket the people congregating.

What I can’t believe is the number of old people going for walks in the park here, and just like usual, walking right down the middle of the path (with a few feet between them so that a couple can block the whole path), instead of moving to one side. Couldn’t keep your distance from them while running if you tried.

MonkeyRonin Mar 26, 2020 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8874508)
It'll be interesting to see how crime numbers play out after the shutdown. gangs and the drug trade are no doubt affected by current conditions. There could be potential for a violent summer in some places if power dynamics change after 2+ months of disrupted activity.


I was actually just realizing it the other day - I haven't heard of any murders or shootings in weeks. Is the news cycle just so completely engrossed in the Covid stuff that it's going unreported, or are the lockdowns actually having a suppressing effect on crime rates?

JManc Mar 26, 2020 5:23 PM

I go for walk on the trails here by my house every day and run into people of all ages and I can't blame older folks wanting to get out and go walk. I think the likelihood of them catching something from a leisurely walk on the trail is slim to none unless they stop and congregate. I did briefly stopped a chatted with my 60-70 something neighbors but we kept at least 6 feet apart. Hanging out in crowded parks is another issue.

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8874419)
The US government could afford it, it's just that they don't want to afford it. They'd rather spend the tax revenue on other "things" and keep "donating" to certain countries year after year after year.

It seems both Republicans and Democrats foolishly think “the government” is some abstract entity and not, well, them.

Republicans don’t want “the government” telling them what to do, even though the government’s actions are only the collective will of themselves and the rest of the body politic.

And then some Democrats talk as if “the government” should just pay for things or forgive debts or make things free, as if the government’s money isn’t their and everyone else’s money.

I graduated college without student loan debt. If the government forgives or cancels all student loan debt, then I am personally worse off. I’m not indifferent, or neutral, I am financially harmed by it. Do people not understand why there is no consensus on these things?

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8874692)
I go for walk on the trails here by my house every day and run into people of all ages and I can't blame older folks wanting to get out and go walk. I think the likelihood of them catching something from a leisurely walk on the trail is slim to none unless they stop and congregate. I did briefly stopped a chatted with my 60-70 something neighbors but we kept at least 6 feet apart. Hanging out in crowded parks is another issue.

Yes but given their vulnerability, you would think that just for once they would not be assholes and try to stick to the side of the path, and at least let people try to give them space.

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8874508)
It'll be interesting to see how crime numbers play out after the shutdown. gangs and the drug trade are no doubt affected by current conditions. There could be potential for a violent summer in some places if power dynamics change after 2+ months of disrupted activity.

There was a meme about coronavirus actually reducing deaths in Chicago. Sad thing is that it could be temporarily true.

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8874073)
Yea, it’s fucked. Either lots of people will potentially die or lots of people will potentially be destitute. It’s a no-win situation for everyone.

Destroying a younger person’s career prospects or financial stability is worse than ending a very old person’s life a couple years early.

JManc Mar 26, 2020 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874699)
Yes but given their vulnerability, you would think that just for once they would not be assholes and try to stick to the side of the path, and at least let people try to give them space.

Not sure how things are where everyone else is but people around here instinctively veer away from each other as soon as they come within close proximity. All of a sudden people are respecting others' personal space.

sopas ej Mar 26, 2020 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874693)
It seems both Republicans and Democrats foolishly think “the government” is some abstract entity and not, well, them.

Republicans don’t want “the government” telling them what to do, even though the government’s actions are only the collective will of themselves and the rest of the body politic.

And then some Democrats talk as if “the government” should just pay for things or forgive debts or make things free, as if the government’s money isn’t their and everyone else’s money.

I graduated college without student loan debt. If the government forgives or cancels all student loan debt, then I am personally worse off. I’m not indifferent, or neutral, I am financially harmed by it. Do people not understand why there is no consensus on these things?

I also graduated college without any student loan debt. How would you and I be worse off personally if all of a sudden, colleges were tuition-free (as community colleges have become again in California) and all student loan debts were canceled?

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker (Post 8874347)
All of the layoffs and economic gut punches would probably happen anyway if you just left everything open and allowed the virus to spread like wildfire throughout the populace, so why not save a bunch of lives instead? :shrug:

This is actually questionable.

Without making any values judgment, the fact is that old people dying doesn’t have much in the way of economic impact.

The media hysteria could still be an issue, if it made (younger, healthy) people scared to go to work, but that’s also a matter of overreaction and not the disease itself.

10023 Mar 26, 2020 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8874727)
I also graduated college without any student loan debt. How would you and I be worse off personally if all of a sudden, colleges were tuition-free (as community colleges have become again in California) and all student loan debts were canceled?

Because we would be the ones paying off those student loans, and paying for tuition on an ongoing basis, through our taxes. How is this not obvious?

And for me, having gone to a good state university, my degree would eventually be devalued somewhat as the quality of education declined. Though I am probably far enough into my career that this doesn’t matter.

destroycreate Mar 26, 2020 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
Because we would be the ones paying off those student loans, and paying for tuition on an ongoing basis, through our taxes. How is this not obvious?

Which is great. I'm all about having a more educated, skilled society. If more people win, we are all better off as an economy.

JManc Mar 26, 2020 5:50 PM

^ free college for all doesn't everyone will take advantage of it and then take it seriously. Kinda like high school now. Lot of wasted resources on so many who shouldn't be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
Because we would be the ones paying off those student loans, and paying for tuition on an ongoing basis, through our taxes. How is this not obvious?

This. I graduated college with a crap load of student loans a struggled with them for over a decade before finally paying them off. This was after moving to Texas and going to a community college to mitigate costs. If anything, the interest should be widdled down to maybe a half a percent to pay for banks or whoever to service the loans but it isn't the principles that is hammering everyone but the interest rates. We pay a fuck ton enough for federal taxes and not keen on paying any more.

Don't go to the most expensive/prestigious school if repayment is going to be an issue 5-10-15 years down the road.

Handro Mar 26, 2020 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
And for me, having gone to a good state university, my degree would eventually be devalued somewhat as the quality of education declined. Though I am probably far enough into my career that this doesn’t matter.

You went to a STATE university? As in, some taxpayers who didn't even attend that state's university system subsized your education?

You commie!

Lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874737)
This is actually questionable.

Without making any values judgment, the fact is that old people dying doesn’t have much in the way of economic impact.

The media hysteria could still be an issue, if it made (younger, healthy) people scared to go to work, but that’s also a matter of overreaction and not the disease itself.

It's not just old people suffering severe illnesses, and if the hospitals are overrun with patients many of those who are hospitalized but would otherwise survive are also in danger of dying: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...e2.htm#T1_down

So even if some people are OK with sacrificing their older loved ones right now for the sake of their 401Ks, that still doesn't mean they'll be around to enjoy the payout in retirement 30 years from now.

It's a very delicate situation and it isn't as easy as "let the economy fail" vs "save lives". The economy is going to suffer and people are going to die, we're all still learning in real time the real consequences. It's a scary time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate (Post 8874745)
Which is great. I'm all about having a more educated, skilled society. If more people win, we are all better off as an economy.

I think many haven't considered how much better off the economy would be if everyone were healthy, educated, and productive. Universal healthcare and free college tuition would be great even for extremely selfish reasons. There are certain very narrow but powerful segments of society that have brainwashed us to believe otherwise.

Crawford Mar 26, 2020 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8874752)

So even if some people are OK with sacrificing their older loved ones right now for the sake of their 401Ks,

Life is largely a cost-benefit analysis. Yes, some older folks will probably pass somewhat earlier than otherwise if it means society continues. I think most older folks would agree, and would not seek to harm their grandchildren.

Handro Mar 26, 2020 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8874763)
Life is largely a cost-benefit analysis. Yes, some older folks will probably pass if it means society continues. I think most older folks would agree, and would not seek to harm their grandchildren.

ok? what does that have to do with the great context of my post?

I find it pretty laughable that even a large minority of people over 50 are willing to die to save the economy. I'd love to see a poll of some kind.

Would you die to save 10023's retirement fund?

Crawford Mar 26, 2020 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate (Post 8874745)
Which is great. I'm all about having a more educated, skilled society. If more people win, we are all better off as an economy.

Free college doesn't mean "more educated, skilled society". It usually just means a ton of oversubscribed, uniformly mediocre universities (see Germany).

There's a middle ground. People generally shouldn't be paying 50k a year, but universally free isn't sustainable.

sopas ej Mar 26, 2020 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate (Post 8874745)
Which is great. I'm all about having a more educated, skilled society. If more people win, we are all better off as an economy.

Right??

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
Because we would be the ones paying off those student loans, and paying for tuition on an ongoing basis, through our taxes. How is this not obvious?

We pay taxes anyway. And those people whose loans were "forgiven" would also be paying taxes, and hence wouldn't really be getting a "free ride," because they are also paying off those student loans with their other fellow taxpayers. How is *that* not obvious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
And for me, having gone to a good state university, my degree would eventually be devalued somewhat as the quality of education declined.

Pobrecito! Waaah, waaah...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8874739)
Though I am probably far enough into my career that this doesn’t matter.

So why were you mentioning it in the first place?

Crawford Mar 26, 2020 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8874765)
ok? what does that have to do with the great context of my post?

I find it pretty laughable that even a large minority of people over 50 are willing to die to save the economy. I'd love to see a poll of some kind.

Would you die to save 10023's retirement fund?

It's not "willing to die". It's "willing to take reasonable steps like temporary self-isolation". My parents are doing this, and want the economy reopened ASAP.

And I have previously said I would sacrifice myself if it meant my son had a guarantee of a brighter future. I mean it.

Handro Mar 26, 2020 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8874774)
It's not "willing to die". It's "willing to take reasonable steps like temporary self-isolation". My parents are doing this, and want the economy reopened ASAP.

Fair enough

Quote:

And I have previously said I would sacrifice myself if it meant my son had a guarantee of a brighter future. I mean it.
Even if the economy suddenly snapped back to December 2019 levels, how is that a guarantee to anyone of a brighter future?


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