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mrnyc Mar 4, 2022 7:20 PM

masking is over for nyc schools starting monday:


Metro

Mayor Adams ends NYC vax passports, school masks

By Nolan Hicks, Selim Algar andEmily Crane
March 4, 2022 9:33am Updated


Asked later if parades would be back this spring and summer, Adams said, “We have become so boring as a city. I want to become a city of excitement. We are looking to reinstate every parade, every festival, every block party. People need to get outdoors and enjoy our city again.”

The changes mean patrons at Big Apple restaurants, gyms and indoor venues — including theaters — will no longer have to show proof of vaccination in order to enter.

Individual businesses can still decide to enforce their own rules.

Children in K-12 school settings will also no longer have to don face coverings indoors.

“We want to see the faces of our children, we want to see their smiles,” Adams said. “We want to see how happy they are. We want to see when they are feeling sad so that we can be there to comfort them.”


more:
https://nypost.com/2022/03/04/mayor-...vax-passports/

photoLith Mar 4, 2022 7:23 PM

Look at these nutcases. They don't want it to end.

https://twitter.com/small_asher/stat...47492314816518

mrnyc Mar 4, 2022 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9557008)


meh, that's not even twenty people. including some of their kids they dragged along. :rolleyes:

Trae Mar 4, 2022 7:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9557004)
masking is over for nyc schools starting monday:


Metro

Mayor Adams ends NYC vax passports, school masks

By Nolan Hicks, Selim Algar andEmily Crane
March 4, 2022 9:33am Updated


Asked later if parades would be back this spring and summer, Adams said, “We have become so boring as a city. I want to become a city of excitement. We are looking to reinstate every parade, every festival, every block party. People need to get outdoors and enjoy our city again.”

The changes mean patrons at Big Apple restaurants, gyms and indoor venues — including theaters — will no longer have to show proof of vaccination in order to enter.

Individual businesses can still decide to enforce their own rules.

Children in K-12 school settings will also no longer have to don face coverings indoors.

“We want to see the faces of our children, we want to see their smiles,” Adams said. “We want to see how happy they are. We want to see when they are feeling sad so that we can be there to comfort them.”


more:
https://nypost.com/2022/03/04/mayor-...vax-passports/

Damn it about time. California just did away with it too although some districts like SF still want it to remain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9556984)
^ Don’t worry, they will be safe

You crack me up :cheers:

JManc Mar 4, 2022 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9557009)
meh, that's not even twenty people. including some of their kids they dragged along. :rolleyes:

There's a LOT of these 'mask enthusiasts' still around. Most just don't protest about it.

mrnyc Mar 4, 2022 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9557026)
There's a LOT of these 'mask enthusiasts' still around. Most just don't protest about it.

then how do you know this?

i mean i have no idea, but am maybe a bit curious about that. i definitely have not been keeping up with the news other than today. :shrug:

Trae Mar 4, 2022 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9557030)
then how do you know this?

i mean i have no idea, but am maybe a bit curious about that. i definitely have not been keeping up with the news other than today. :shrug:

I just gave you an example when I responded to your NYC school post. Here's the SF school board's masks enthusiasts - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...s-16960554.php

Quote:

SFUSD’s press release states that masking is “one of the least burdensome policies on schools.”

“It helps prevent infections among students and staff and their families, and reduces missed school days,” San Francisco Unified School District Public Relations Manager Laura Dudnick said in an email.

San Francisco Board of Education President Gabriela López in an email said the district agrees to keep the “important safety tool” and will keep the mandate in place until the end of the school year.

TWAK Mar 4, 2022 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae (Post 9557050)
I just gave you an example when I responded to your NYC school post. Here's the SF school board's masks enthusiasts - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...s-16960554.php

Do you support a mandate against mandates to remedy this situation? That's what it will take to let them not have the choice to wear masks.

the urban politician Mar 5, 2022 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae (Post 9557050)
I just gave you an example when I responded to your NYC school post. Here's the SF school board's masks enthusiasts - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...s-16960554.php

Mask “enthusiasts” is a good description of these authoritarian clowns.

It still amazes me that we tolerated people forcing us to wear face coverings for all of this time.

It’s weird, because these people are basically not satisfied with wearing a mask. They want to force YOU to wear one too so that they won’t be scared.

Just dystopian, what a fucked up chapter in our history this all has been

jtown,man Mar 7, 2022 9:22 PM

We went from Texas is killing grandma to NYC schools lifting mask mandates.


It's almost as if Texas wasn't insane a year ago :D

(Texas has an overall lower case count per 100k than NY and a lower death rate per 100k)

iheartthed Mar 7, 2022 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9559381)
We went from Texas is killing grandma to NYC schools lifting mask mandates.


It's almost as if Texas wasn't insane a year ago :D

(Texas has an overall lower case count per 100k than NY and a lower death rate per 100k)

That's not the flex you think it is. Nearly half of all New York reported deaths from COVID occurred by June 1, 2020. Barely any of Texas's reported COVID deaths had occurred by June 1, 2020. In other words, roughly 38,000 deaths have been reported in NYS since June 1, 2020, while about 82,000 deaths have been reported in Texas over that time. So Texas's rate of death over that time was 50% higher than New York's.

SAN Man Mar 8, 2022 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9559598)
That's not the flex you think it is. Nearly half of all New York reported deaths from COVID occurred by June 1, 2020. Barely any of Texas's reported COVID deaths had occurred by June 1, 2020. In other words, roughly 38,000 deaths have been reported in NYS since June 1, 2020, while about 82,000 deaths have been reported in Texas over that time. So Texas's rate of death over that time was 50% higher than New York's.

Yeah NY's death toll would be much lower by tens of thousands if their nursing home death toll were lower in the early months, that's basically the bulk of deaths in the pandemic here in the US.

pdxtex Mar 8, 2022 1:06 AM

^^^^^ nobody is ever going to win the valuation argument, was it worth it? was it worth it to shut down the world over a respiratory virus? i have my opinion but many will disagree it. from a statistical standpoint as a percentage of overall population, lockdown oregon had a mortality rate of .2% of our population. wild west no lockdown south dakota, .3. one tenth of 1 percent. difference. oh but we had catastrophic, societal melt down too.. was it worth it? not in my book.

hauntedheadnc Mar 8, 2022 11:59 AM

Crime Went Down During the Pandemic. But Cities Got More Dangerous. -- A novel approach to measuring crime rates clears up the confusion.

Quote:

Is the pandemic-era crime wave the most serious issue facing American cities, or a media-driven distraction that threatens to quash important social reforms? Some version of that question has been haunting the metropolis since the summer of 2020. The answer is complicated by divergent and incomplete data, entrenched political positions, and crime-happy media coverage.

Untangling reality from perception, in the case of the current spate of lawbreaking, is hard because the data has sent mixed signals. For example: Is shoplifting really eating cities alive? Probably not. Are cities more dangerous? Murders in major cities rose in 2020 and 2021— setting all-time records in cities as varied as Portland, Oregon and Philadelphia—but rapes, robberies, and property crimes all decreased in 2020, and preliminary statistics from 2021 don’t show a clear trend.

***

A new working paper from a pair of economists who study crime may square the circle. Total crime numbers went down in 2020, the paper argues, but the odds of being a victim went up. “We wanted to understand what it meant to have overall crime be down, in a context of overall reduced activity,” explained Maxim Massenkoff, an assistant professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in San Francisco, and one of the authors.

That might sound intuitive, for a period where normal life was severely disrupted. Similar trends have been reported on highways, where traffic fell but fatalities per mile traveled rose, and on the New York City subway, where overall crime fell but crime per rider rose.

***

For crime data, the duo used statistics from New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, which enabled them to sort for violent crime that occurred in public—a category that included streets, parks, alleyways, commercial establishments, and offices.

The results: From March to December, 2020, public violence in the three cities was 19 percent lower than it had been in 2019. But when put into the context of how little Americans left the house that year, that data takes on a different significance. In April, for example, violent street crime fell by 30 percent—but the risk of being a victim of such a crime rose by almost 40 percent. A similar pattern held for the whole year: Even as street crime fell, the risk of being a victim of a crime rose between 15 and 30 percent over the previous year, depending on which measure of “outdoor activity” was used. In short, if you spent time in public, you were more likely to be robbed or assaulted in public in 2020 than in 2019.

For what it’s worth, that risk remained very, very small: 12 violent crimes per million outdoor hours, or more than 80,000 safely-spent outdoor hours for each violent crime.

the urban politician Mar 8, 2022 2:49 PM

Well, we are now paying the price for the lockdowns economically.

Inflation is getting ridiculous. That's what happens when you print trillions of dollars. Of course, the Russia-Ukraine thing ain't helping

eschaton Mar 8, 2022 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9560126)
Well, we are now paying the price for the lockdowns economically.

Inflation is getting ridiculous. That's what happens when you print trillions of dollars. Of course, the Russia-Ukraine thing ain't helping

Saying inflation is due to lockdowns is pretty ridiculous (formal lockdowns only lasted a few months in 2020 anyway). The global supply chains got fucked due to...global issues. Along with a global shift in consumer preferences which businesses couldn't adjust back to immediately post pandemic. This stuff would have happened regardless of what any state/local government did - or even regardless of what the U.S. did.

iheartthed Mar 8, 2022 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAN Man (Post 9559658)
Yeah NY's death toll would be much lower by tens of thousands if their nursing home death toll were lower in the early months, that's basically the bulk of deaths in the pandemic here in the US.

That's some of it, but not all. Nursing home deaths in New York probably accounted for about 1/3 of the toll prior to June 1, 2020. But New Jersey's rate of death is even higher than New York's so I don't think the nursing home situation was a distinguishing factor. NY's and NJ's higher rate of death was likely due to being the epicenter of early outbreak, particularly when the virus was spreading undetected in February and early March 2020.

10023 Mar 8, 2022 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9560148)
Saying inflation is due to lockdowns is pretty ridiculous (formal lockdowns only lasted a few months in 2020 anyway). The global supply chains got fucked due to...global issues. Along with a global shift in consumer preferences which businesses couldn't adjust back to immediately post pandemic. This stuff would have happened regardless of what any state/local government did - or even regardless of what the U.S. did.

This is not true.

Firstly the global response was the problem, particularly in Europe and Asia. There would have been little impact from the virus itself, it was almost all driven by the policy response*. Supply chain issues are one consequence. Then there’s the fact that when you pay people a lot of money not to work, they don’t want to work. Economic productivity went down and government borrowing (and money printing) increased. And there was a terrible amount of waste - every face mask and bottle of hand sanitizer produced was essentially useless production which diverted resources from things that are actually useful.

The big economic question for a decade has been about when central banks start shrinking their balance sheets and reversing the tide of surplus money supply that was created in response to the 2008-09 financial crisis (and in Europe subsequent recessions circa 2011), and how they do that without triggering recessions. Instead we got Covid, or more accurately the policy responses to Covid, which required them to amp up this quantitative easing to support government spending rather than winding it down.

And now they’ve lost control and we’re heading for 1970s style inflation and high interest rates. It might not have been quite that bad, but since Vladimir Putin is an absolute fucking asshole and added an oil shock and likely food supply issues to the mix, we are heading for a lost decade.



————————
* If you want to be totally coldhearted technocrat about it, then no, millions of old people dying might not have even been a net negative. Certainly not from a fiscal standpoint, as it would have partly corrected the demographic problems faced by all developed countries, but even from a labor/productivity standpoint (these were generally non-working people) or even consumer spending (inheritance would have worked like stimulus checks, but without adding to deficits).

pdxtex Mar 8, 2022 5:28 PM

I'll try and be more optimistic. I don't think its going to be a lost decade but the covid response was ludicrous. At the end of the day it probably just accelerated trends that were already taking place, but instead of clearing the table neatly, we hastily ripped out the table cloth and everything crashed to the floor. Texas, Arizona, Utah and Florida will laughing all the way to the bank for the next 30 years.

eschaton Mar 8, 2022 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9560255)
This is not true.

Firstly the global response was the problem, particularly in Europe and Asia. There would have been little impact from the virus itself, it was almost all driven by the policy response*. Supply chain issues are one consequence. Then there’s the fact that when you pay people a lot of money not to work, they don’t want to work. Economic productivity went down and government borrowing (and money printing) increased. And there was a terrible amount of waste - every face mask and bottle of hand sanitizer produced was essentially useless production which diverted resources from things that are actually useful.

The big economic question for a decade has been about when central banks start shrinking their balance sheets and reversing the tide of surplus money supply that was created in response to the 2008-09 financial crisis (and in Europe subsequent recessions circa 2011), and how they do that without triggering recessions. Instead we got Covid, or more accurately the policy responses to Covid, which required them to amp up this quantitative easing to support government spending rather than winding it down.

And now they’ve lost control and we’re heading for 1970s style inflation and high interest rates. It might not have been quite that bad, but since Vladimir Putin is an absolute fucking asshole and added an oil shock and likely food supply issues to the mix, we are heading for a lost decade.



————————
* If you want to be totally coldhearted technocrat about it, then no, millions of old people dying might not have even been a net negative. Certainly not from a fiscal standpoint, as it would have partly corrected the demographic problems faced by all developed countries, but even from a labor/productivity standpoint (these were generally non-working people) or even consumer spending (inheritance would have worked like stimulus checks, but without adding to deficits).

My point was from a U.S. response. It makes no sense to say "if only we..." when it wasn't solely up to U.S. policy - other countries played a role as well, along with just the individual reactions of consumers adding up in aggregate.

Even in the most Republican states in the country (where opposition to social distancing was the greatest) you still saw a big downturn in things like travel, restaurants, transit utilization, etc. And TBH the differences across the country were probably more driven (outside of April 2020) by peer groups than policy responses. You can't say "if only we didn't panic" any more than you can say "if only everyone didn't sell stock in 1929." People don't behave in perfectly rational fashions, particularly in large groups.

iheartthed Mar 8, 2022 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9560376)
Even in the most Republican states in the country (where opposition to social distancing was the greatest) you still saw a big downturn in things like travel, restaurants, transit utilization, etc. And TBH the differences across the country were probably more driven (outside of April 2020) by peer groups than policy responses. You can't say "if only we didn't panic" any more than you can say "if only everyone didn't sell stock in 1929." People don't behave in perfectly rational fashions, particularly in large groups.

Yeah, agreed. I don't buy this idea that the public health policies in response to the outbreak were the problem. The problem is that the government failed to get ahold of the outbreak before it spun out of control. There were basically three types of responses: 1) a quick and forceful early reaction, 2) slow early reaction and prolonged limbo state, or 3) no reaction. Pretty much only third world countries did the third response. Asia and eastern Pacific countries mostly opted for the first. Europe and the Americas mostly went with the second response.

the urban politician Mar 8, 2022 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9560430)
Yeah, agreed. I don't buy this idea that the public health policies in response to the outbreak were the problem. The problem is that the government failed to get ahold of the outbreak before it spun out of control. There were basically three types of responses: 1) a quick and forceful early reaction, 2) slow early reaction and prolonged limbo state, or 3) no reaction. Pretty much only third world countries did the third response. Asia and eastern Pacific countries mostly opted for the first. Europe and the Americas mostly went with the second response.

^ Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you aren't blatantly wrong.

Guys, use your brain. This is common sense. Economics 101:

A. Government shuts down numerous industries
B. Even after opening them up, it restricts them (limited capacities, etc)
C. Government now has to bail them out by printing trillions of dollars in money
D. Government also has to bail out people who lost jobs by printing trillions of dollars in money
E. Government also has to bail out people who didn't pay rent due to eviction moratoriums that were stupid, immoral, and lasted way too long by--you guessed it--printing trillions of dollars.

What is the end result of printing all of that money? INFLATION. Tons of it.

That's what happens, folks. Basic economics, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to put 2+2 together.

10023 Mar 8, 2022 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9560376)
My point was from a U.S. response. It makes no sense to say "if only we..." when it wasn't solely up to U.S. policy - other countries played a role as well, along with just the individual reactions of consumers adding up in aggregate.

Even in the most Republican states in the country (where opposition to social distancing was the greatest) you still saw a big downturn in things like travel, restaurants, transit utilization, etc. And TBH the differences across the country were probably more driven (outside of April 2020) by peer groups than policy responses. You can't say "if only we didn't panic" any more than you can say "if only everyone didn't sell stock in 1929." People don't behave in perfectly rational fashions, particularly in large groups.

I meant “we” as in humanity, or at least developed countries, rather than “we” as in the US. Which should make sense, since I don’t even live in the US.

10023 Mar 8, 2022 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9560430)
Yeah, agreed. I don't buy this idea that the public health policies in response to the outbreak were the problem. The problem is that the government failed to get ahold of the outbreak before it spun out of control. There were basically three types of responses: 1) a quick and forceful early reaction, 2) slow early reaction and prolonged limbo state, or 3) no reaction. Pretty much only third world countries did the third response. Asia and eastern Pacific countries mostly opted for the first. Europe and the Americas mostly went with the second response.

Once the virus spread beyond that wet market (or lab, it doesn’t matter) in Wuhan, there was nothing any government could reasonably do to “get ahold of the outbreak”. By the time it reached the United States, it was already bound to infect most people on earth eventually.

mrnyc Mar 8, 2022 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9560438)
Once the virus spread beyond that wet market (or lab, it doesn’t matter) in Wuhan, there was nothing any government could reasonably do to “get ahold of the outbreak”. By the time it reached the United States, it was already bound to infect most people on earth eventually.

except it didn't come close to that.

and like every other pandemic it won't. :rolleyes:

suburbanite Mar 8, 2022 7:08 PM

Ya where is this mythical country where they got a hold of the pandemic early on and then led economically unobstructed lives for the next 2 years?

Places that went zero-Covid implemented the strictest lockdowns in modern history, and still face Covid waves as inevitable mutations of the virus occur across the globe.

Places that went hybrid like the U.K. or most parts of Canada faced restrictions of varying degrees for the better part of two years while having case counts continually bounce up against the capacity limits of the healthcare system.

The most "let er rip" jurisdictions in the U.S. faced the highest death counts in the Western world, but also got back to leading relatively normal lives the fastest.

As far as I can tell there is no magical strategy that could keep case counts and hospitalizations low while avoiding massive top-down restrictions and business disruptions.

the urban politician Mar 8, 2022 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9560438)
Once the virus spread beyond that wet market (or lab, it doesn’t matter) in Wuhan, there was nothing any government could reasonably do to “get ahold of the outbreak”. By the time it reached the United States, it was already bound to infect most people on earth eventually.

Basically. Which is exactly what is happening.

eschaton Mar 8, 2022 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9560435)
^ Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you aren't blatantly wrong.

Guys, use your brain. This is common sense. Economics 101:

A. Government shuts down numerous industries
B. Even after opening them up, it restricts them (limited capacities, etc)
C. Government now has to bail them out by printing trillions of dollars in money
D. Government also has to bail out people who lost jobs by printing trillions of dollars in money
E. Government also has to bail out people who didn't pay rent due to eviction moratoriums that were stupid, immoral, and lasted way too long by--you guessed it--printing trillions of dollars.

What is the end result of printing all of that money? INFLATION. Tons of it.

That's what happens, folks. Basic economics, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to put 2+2 together.

But aside from the lending programs run by the federal reserve, none of that spending involved increasing the money supply. It was just typical deficit spending.

iheartthed Mar 8, 2022 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9560438)
Once the virus spread beyond that wet market (or lab, it doesn’t matter) in Wuhan, there was nothing any government could reasonably do to “get ahold of the outbreak”. By the time it reached the United States, it was already bound to infect most people on earth eventually.

A lot more could have been done, and a lot more was done in many countries. And I'm not even talking about lockdowns. The U.S. bungled just about every part of the early public health response at a national level, from messaging to clearly communicating steps that individuals could take to mitigate their personal risk. The U.S. also spent far too long waiting for evidence to direct public health recommendations that just gave the virus even more time and opportunity to spin out of control. It's actually mind-boggling when you look at some of the early directions we were given, versus what are told to do now. It wasn't rocket science that masking was an effective way to mitigate viral spread without forcing everyone to sit in their houses for three months. The Japanese knew that in March 2020, while the U.S. was telling Americans not to worry about covering their faces but instead focus on washing their hands.

pdxtex Mar 8, 2022 9:36 PM

Yes I agree with the masking bit. Had there been a national mask mandate but no shutdowns or wfh orders, things would have been fine. Had people been given the choice to work from home versus stay at the office I bet most would have still gone home given the panicky tone from the outset. Honestly I was kind of scared shirtless for about two weeks, then I calmed down, then I became furious that our leaders kept banging the drum louder and louder. City of Portland employees are still, STILL working at home. Honestly fck this state's leadership. Oregon deserves every single bit of hardship it receives.

sopas ej Mar 8, 2022 10:01 PM

My work ended masking on Monday for both vaccinated and unvaccinated employees (prior to that, only unvaccinated employees had to wear them). No longer mandatory, but if you want to wear one, it's up to you, and you'll be provided with one if you ask for one.

Now, only visitors are required to wear a face covering when entering; so, the copier repair guy, the Corodata guy, etc., still have to wear their masks if they want to enter our office.

LA County has basically aligned itself with the rest of California, so masks for the moment are only required at airports, on public transit, in healthcare facilities...

It's been weird for me walking into a restaurant without wearing a mask, and then you see some employees wearing them, and then I feel rude for not wearing one. I've been keeping a KN95 mask in my back pocket just in case a business requires me to wear one.

destroycreate Mar 10, 2022 2:40 PM

2 years later after Covid hit - how does your city "feel" now?
 
Starting a new thread since the other one is a political clusterf*ck. Really just want to know - 2 years later, is your city feeling back to normal? Still quiet?

Speaking for Los Angeles, things were feeling somewhat more vibrant the last few months even with Omicron, but with mask mandates, still killed the vibe overall.

Now with indoor mask mandates lifted, for the first time in what feels like FOREVER the city feels alive again. Seeing a lot more foot traffic, restaurants are busy, people are going out, and a lot more people seem to be at the office. Covid really dulled out this city and it was super depressing, so I'm hugely relieved to see that we're sunsetting the pandemic and that LA is getting its spark back. The only thing still missing is office worker traffic, def. still not where it was.

jmecklenborg Mar 10, 2022 3:01 PM

Still doesn't feel normal where I live. A lot of bars/restaurants still aren't open Sundays and early in the week. Way less pedestrian activity. Few people playing music and hanging out on their porches. College students aren't throwing many parties.

Steely Dan Mar 10, 2022 3:13 PM

I just had to drive my sick child over to my parent's condo for the day.

It took 24 minutes to go 2.5 miles.

I don't do that drive often anymore (thank Pizza God!), but I used to do it a lot during peak pandemic when my kids were stuck in remote "learning" hell and my mom helped us out big time, and I could usually do that same drive in about half that time back then.

So rush hour is apparently back in full swing in chicago now <sarcastic YAY!>

hipster duck Mar 10, 2022 3:38 PM

Toronto feels like it got capped in the knees while running a marathon.

2019 was a great year in Toronto. Not only did the Raptors win the championship, but 2019 felt like the culminating year of the great 2010s' boom which had been very favourable to our city. There were all these exciting restaurants and events. Downtown had more people in it than ever in our history and they were all out on the streets livening things up. And then 1 year later all of that was lost.

Now we pay 28% more to live in a city where many storefronts are empty and a lot of those that aren't empty got turned into Cannabis dispensaries which have terrible streetfront presence.

Toronto suffered a lot because we had a very strict, very long lockdown. Aside from mask mandates, there have been capacity limits to dining and events of some kind pretty much from the beginning until now.

If you're considering visiting Toronto this year, I'd personally hold off. I think it will bounce back, but it's going to take some time and right now the city is not very flattering. Don't forget that, more than any other city in North America, Toronto needs people on the streets to feel big. We don't have the architectural brawn that will make exploring empty streets worthwhile.

10023 Mar 10, 2022 4:05 PM

London is more or less normal now, for this time of year. I went through the City at around 5pm yesterday and the sidewalks were full of commuters. It’s not as busy as it can be but it’s not tourist/festival season yet.

There are zero Covid rules here anymore, including testing or masks. You see maybe 10% of people on the tube wearing them because they want to (like Pedestrian), but the most the operator or shops, etc are allowed to do is put up a sign that says something like “Please consider wearing a mask”.

A report yesterday said that because of high levels of immunity and the mildness of omicron, more people are dying of flu than Covid in the UK.

iheartthed Mar 10, 2022 4:08 PM

NYC is nowhere near pre-pandemic normal, but it feels like the city is starting to recover in a meaningful way. Rush hour vehicular traffic in Manhattan is increasing, but is still far below pre-pandemic normal. Subway rush hour ridership is gradually picking up, but is also well below pre-pandemic normal.

The city was trending recovery in the Fall too, but omicron dealt a pretty substantial setback. The recovery feels more solid now.

Boisebro Mar 10, 2022 4:36 PM

Boise feels bigger. Restaurant wait times are longer, hockey games are packed, the streets seem busier downtown, and all of the construction projects that started back then are now done or close to done.

the new normal is the same as the old normal except more normal-y.

suburbanite Mar 10, 2022 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 9562581)
Toronto feels like it got capped in the knees while running a marathon.

2019 was a great year in Toronto. Not only did the Raptors win the championship, but 2019 felt like the culminating year of the great 2010s' boom which had been very favourable to our city. There were all these exciting restaurants and events. Downtown had more people in it than ever in our history and they were all out on the streets livening things up. And then 1 year later all of that was lost.

Now we pay 28% more to live in a city where many storefronts are empty and a lot of those that aren't empty got turned into Cannabis dispensaries which have terrible streetfront presence.

Toronto suffered a lot because we had a very strict, very long lockdown. Aside from mask mandates, there have been capacity limits to dining and events of some kind pretty much from the beginning until now.

If you're considering visiting Toronto this year, I'd personally hold off. I think it will bounce back, but it's going to take some time and right now the city is not very flattering. Don't forget that, more than any other city in North America, Toronto needs people on the streets to feel big. We don't have the architectural brawn that will make exploring empty streets worthwhile.

I think Toronto this summer will have a lot of pent up energy to release. I was in the city last weekend and went out for the first time since Covid restrictions were removed. There were line-ups at all the usual popular bars in freezing weather. I imagine it will only improve when patios open up, Jays games are back at full capacity, The CNE is back, etc.

Acajack Mar 10, 2022 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 9562581)
Toronto feels like it got capped in the knees while running a marathon.

2019 was a great year in Toronto. Not only did the Raptors win the championship, but 2019 felt like the culminating year of the great 2010s' boom which had been very favourable to our city. There were all these exciting restaurants and events. Downtown had more people in it than ever in our history and they were all out on the streets livening things up. And then 1 year later all of that was lost.

Now we pay 28% more to live in a city where many storefronts are empty and a lot of those that aren't empty got turned into Cannabis dispensaries which have terrible streetfront presence.

Toronto suffered a lot because we had a very strict, very long lockdown. Aside from mask mandates, there have been capacity limits to dining and events of some kind pretty much from the beginning until now.
.

Ditto for pretty much anywhere in Ontario and Quebec in fact.

Not even close to being back to normal yet.

Steely Dan Mar 10, 2022 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9562658)
Jays games are back

you're quite the optimistic one. ;)

SLO Mar 10, 2022 4:48 PM

Everything feels stifled still because of residual pandemic, massive inflation, weird building demand, wars etc

William Van Alen Mar 10, 2022 4:51 PM

Chiming in from Philly - things mostly feel back to normal aside from the subways and crime. The vibes are pretty much there as far as I can tell - more people downtown, buses are pretty packed at rush hour, even the commuter train that I reverse commute on occasionally seems to be pretty crowded. Bars and restaurants are as busy as they've ever been. Unfortunately, the subways are pretty sad at the moment, with lots of people openly smoking cigarettes and weed on them, a few instances of people pushing others onto the tracks for no apparent reason, and violent crime in underground walkways :( . Really hope that changes soon.

I was in LA last month (last time I had been there before that was 2019) and things felt a bit more desolate there than here. Maybe it was just that I was there on a weekend and downtown was super quiet, or I forgot how much people drive in LA, but something definitely still felt off in the areas around downtown at least. In neighborhoods like Ktown, Echo Park, Silverlake, parts of Westlake, things felt pretty normal, but in general, there seemed to be a lot more homelessness than I remembered. My Friday night subway ride from Downtown to Ktown felt a bit dystopian, with a few folks who were not in their right minds ruling the vibes on the train to put it lightly.

On the flip side, I took a trip to Rome, Istanbul and Cairo a few months ago and those cities seemed pretty normal, despite their tourism numbers still being way off their peaks. It actually made it really enjoyable to be there when there weren't so many tourists, I got a much better feel for normal life there and the cities didn't feel like tourist traps as I've heard they can sometimes. Really made it obvious how much American cities rely on their downtown offices for vitality. Even with less than half the tourism of pre-COVID, Istanbul and Rome felt way more bustling than Philadelphia pre-COVID. Cairo was another level of bustling, though it's unfair to compare since Cairo really is still a developing-world city.

mhays Mar 10, 2022 5:04 PM

In my Downtown-Seattle-fringe area, life has seemed pretty normal all along after the first few months. But Downtown proper is more work/tourism/shopping oriented. Seattle is probably one of the harder-hit due to software jobs being relatively remote-friendly.

A lot of our issues are peripheral to Covid. Some are trending well.

The homeless surge and crime surge resulted in new City leadership in January, and there's been a lot of cleaning up since. Tents are gone from some key areas. Even before, we were converting a lot of hotels to homeless housing and making some progress.

We're three months into a concrete truck driver strike in King County, our central 2.3m. This has shut major construction down cold, including new starts. This actually has nothing to do with Covid.

Retail is hurt by Covid but also a lack of workers at prices employers will pay. Why open a store if you can't staff it?

But a surge has begun. Employers have been announcing hybrid work plans. This will be a record summer for the cruise industry, with 300 calls. Also we've been finishing construction projects like Climate Pledge Arena, Sea-Tac International Arrivals, and the Link Light Rail extension to Northgate, which all add to my optimism and make the city feel nicer.

suburbanite Mar 10, 2022 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 9562664)
you're quite the optimistic one. ;)

Hoping for a half-season, but Manfred needs to go!

Innsertnamehere Mar 10, 2022 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 9562581)
Toronto feels like it got capped in the knees while running a marathon.

2019 was a great year in Toronto. Not only did the Raptors win the championship, but 2019 felt like the culminating year of the great 2010s' boom which had been very favourable to our city. There were all these exciting restaurants and events. Downtown had more people in it than ever in our history and they were all out on the streets livening things up. And then 1 year later all of that was lost.

Now we pay 28% more to live in a city where many storefronts are empty and a lot of those that aren't empty got turned into Cannabis dispensaries which have terrible streetfront presence.

Toronto suffered a lot because we had a very strict, very long lockdown. Aside from mask mandates, there have been capacity limits to dining and events of some kind pretty much from the beginning until now.

If you're considering visiting Toronto this year, I'd personally hold off. I think it will bounce back, but it's going to take some time and right now the city is not very flattering. Don't forget that, more than any other city in North America, Toronto needs people on the streets to feel big. We don't have the architectural brawn that will make exploring empty streets worthwhile.

Agreed. I was out last Friday night downtown and it was busier than I've seen it in 2 years, but still a shell of it's former self. A bar I went to that normally is packed to the gills on a Friday felt like it was a Tuesday night at 7pm.

Even with everything being open again in terms of government restrictions, not everyone is back to their normal routines. Students are still partially online, people aren't in their offices, and many aren't comfortable returning to restaurants and bars in big ways yet.

I expect by summer it'll be closer to it's normal self again, but it's still a shell of 2019 today. I heard a couple of Americans at the bar discussing how it was their first time in Toronto with the bartender, and man, I felt bad for them. They probably think Toronto is this sleepy little city where nothing happens.

Acajack Mar 10, 2022 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9562790)
Agreed. I was out last Friday night downtown and it was busier than I've seen it in 2 years, but still a shell of it's former self. A bar I went to that normally is packed to the gills on a Friday felt like it was a Tuesday night at 7pm.

Even with everything being open again in terms of government restrictions, not everyone is back to their normal routines. Students are still partially online, people aren't in their offices, and many aren't comfortable returning to restaurants and bars in big ways yet.

I expect by summer it'll be closer to it's normal self again, but it's still a shell of 2019 today. I heard a couple of Americans at the bar discussing how it was their first time in Toronto with the bartender, and man, I felt bad for them. They probably think Toronto is this sleepy little city where nothing happens.

I don't think we should underestimate just how many people got into a somewhat comfy rut during the pandemic whereby they got used to not going out much at all and are cocooning in the extreme most of the time.

One can wonder if they might not even be as numerous as those of us who were just itching to get out and do stuff.

Some of these may eventually be "back", but I think a good number of them probably never will come back out much.

JManc Mar 10, 2022 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9562800)
I don't think we should underestimate just how many people got into a somewhat comfy rut during the pandemic whereby they got used to not going out much at all and are cocooning in the extreme most of the time.

One can wonder if they might not even be as numerous as those of us who were just itching to get out and do stuff.

Some of these may eventually be "back", but I think a good number of them probably never will come back out much.

This. My wife and went out pretty often in the 'before times' but have to force ourselves to get out of the house even though Houston is back to near pre-pandemic levels. Covid is going to have lingering effects long have the virus itself has subsided. Plus, things are still place to make staying home easier; Instacart, Doordash and in some states, you can order alcohol to go and even delivered to your house. Never a better time to be an alcoholic...

MonkeyRonin Mar 10, 2022 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 9562581)
Toronto feels like it got capped in the knees while running a marathon.

2019 was a great year in Toronto. Not only did the Raptors win the championship, but 2019 felt like the culminating year of the great 2010s' boom which had been very favourable to our city. There were all these exciting restaurants and events. Downtown had more people in it than ever in our history and they were all out on the streets livening things up. And then 1 year later all of that was lost.

Now we pay 28% more to live in a city where many storefronts are empty and a lot of those that aren't empty got turned into Cannabis dispensaries which have terrible streetfront presence.

Toronto suffered a lot because we had a very strict, very long lockdown. Aside from mask mandates, there have been capacity limits to dining and events of some kind pretty much from the beginning until now.


Fair assessment. Despite the lifting of capacity limits and most other restrictions, the city still feels like it's been left as a quieter, more subdued version of itself. Granted, it also probably hasn't helped that it's been a particularly bitter winter, and that there's still some inertia in getting back to normal.

Speaking personally though, I've had many friends leave the city over the past 2 years - whether in search of affordable housing or new experiences; while others have just become more reclusive & withdrawn - so for me, it is a lesser version of itself. And with fewer people to go out with, that means I'm less likely to go out as well. While this may be anecdotal, the out-migration of young people from Toronto has been well documented.

That all said, with mask mandates disappearing next week and warmer weather on the way, I'm sure we'll see a bit more liveliness return to our streets. But otherwise, I'm in agreement that it may take a few years to get back to where we were in 2019.

pdxtex Mar 10, 2022 6:16 PM

I rate Portland only 4 Robocops/10. Thats pretty good considering 2020 was thunderdome summer. Downtown is sleepy but seems infinitely cleaner and more safe. Office workers are slowly trickling in I hear. Boarded up storefronts persist but most big national retailers seem to have stuck it out. Rents are supposedly very high at the moment tho and we still have some spotty homeless issues. The desire to get Downtown back in order is palpable tho. NW Portland where all of the better shopping and high density housing is, is doing fine. Seems extremely lively. Weird, schizo level crime is happening all over the city tho. Some dude blew up a strangers car in broad daylight over the weekend. So there's sh!t like that. There is still a 20 ft east german quality security fence in front of the downtown Apple store so you be the judge.


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