SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (
-   Completed Project Threads Archive (
-   -   CHICAGO | NEMA Chicago | 896 FT | 81 FLOORS (

LouisVanDerWright Jan 7, 2019 4:25 AM


Originally Posted by skyscraper (Post 8427602)
I am an architect, I did work for Vinoly, I am very familiar with the language you describe. I also disagree with a lot of it. It's not misguided, it's called thinking for yourself.
I do agree that buildings designed with their environments and surroundings make for the best buildings. But I don't agree that they have to have a dialogue with surrounding buildings in order to be great. Buildings have to be able to stand on their own and considered independent of other buildings. As I said earlier, if the surrounding buildings are demolished, that should not detract from the building's greatness.

Come talk to us when someone decides to tear down the Sears Tower...

Design isn't about just one building anyways, it's about a vernacular. 99% of all Roman buildings constructed in the history of Rome are partially or completely demolished. Yet their design vernacular and vocabulary dominated all of Europe and the Mediterranean for millennia and continued to influence design trends in far flung places like the United States as recently as 100 years ago. To a certain extent their vernacular is still a force to this day. So who gives a shit if all that is left of the Temple of Saturn is a few columns from the portico? Who cares if the forum itself is obliterated except a few chunks of its foundation? The ideas live on and are replicated over and over again.

If in 2000 years people are still building square buildings with lots of cascading setbacks because "that's how they built them in ancient Chicago" then that's a resounding design success. If we are building similar buildings 50 years after the Sears went up, that's also a design success. One of the wonderful parts of Chicago's hallowed design heritage is just how omnipresent the aesthetics and philosophy and engineering of our own little civilization has become. When the product of your society becomes so commonplace that the greatest criticism of it is its ubiquity, then you have succeeded. I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to follow that design school especially given the fact that, unlike Dubai, China, NYC, etc, Chicago continues to be a place highly constrained by economics. A place where highrise design is practical, but must be austere and conservative to succeed.

Let everyone else build "statues of bugs humping each other" as I believe TUP put it. In Chicago we will continue to refine Modernism and adapt the simplicity and efficiency to successive generations of construction. We can leave the construction of the "1 Dildo Place" type buildings to everyone else. What you see as a failure is merely an affirmation of our vernacular, may we see 500 more giant square buildings with nice glass and details and plenty of setbacks.

kolchak Jan 7, 2019 6:35 AM

The exact thing that makes the Chicago skyline so cool is that it is like a city composed as one giant sculpture.

Walking to Soldier Field today :( I noticed how well NEMA adds to it.

Zerton Jan 7, 2019 5:46 PM

I do like this tower a lot but I often get the feeling that Vinoly gets lucky rather than is actually a great designer and architect.

Donnie77 Jan 7, 2019 6:15 PM


Originally Posted by Zerton (Post 8428414)
I do like this tower a lot but I often get the feeling that Vinoly gets lucky rather than is actually a great designer and architect.

Totally agree and we should count our lucky stars we didn't end up with the walkie-talkie!:runaway:

skyscraper Jan 7, 2019 6:26 PM


Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 8428011)
Design isn't about just one building anyways, it's about a vernacular.

If that were true, there would never be any innovation.

maru2501 Jan 7, 2019 6:27 PM

it did look good on tv a couple of times during the game. I didn't screen-shot it

Jibba Jan 7, 2019 6:39 PM


Originally Posted by The Lurker (Post 8426748)
I hope you guys like LEGOs.

Very cool--nice job.

LouisVanDerWright Jan 7, 2019 8:42 PM


Originally Posted by skyscraper (Post 8428492)
If that were true, there would never be any innovation.

I suggest you go study architectural history. That's not how innovation happens. Frank Lloyd Wright didn't just wake up one day and decide to build Falling Water, Robie House, and the Guggenheim just out of the blue. Go visit hi home in Oak Park you tell me design isn't derivative and about a vernacular. His first projects were all psuedo Victorians with maybe a bit of Sullivanesque ornament. He only arrived at his most famous works after decades of refining forms over thousands of projects. This is just an example of one architect of course, though he is possibly the most influential in history, but it illustrates exactly what I said perfectly.

FLW would not be known as such a mensch of design if it were just about ONE of his buildings. In fact, he could never have achieved his most spectacular innovations if not for repeated attempts at perfecting his vision. It's indisputable that FLW's greatness is a result of the vernacular he created and that vernacular is, as I said, a result of thousands of variations on the theme each one advancing his vision only marginally. But look beyond his direct works and consider the effect his designs had on our culture. Literally decades of construction echoed what he did or used some of the best elements of it. THAT is indicative of good design and, though it undoubtedly drove Wright himself nuts, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Projects like Falling Water and Robie drove an entire generation of suburban design. To this day the themes of his work reverberate through new construction designs. I was just driving through a new subdivision some inlaws of mine bought in in Iowa over NYE and noticed all the lamps, windows, and detailing were unquestionably Prairie Style more than 110 years after Robie House was completed.

FLW succeeded, he created a truly American aesthetic. He could not have had that success without spawning an entire design vernacular that persists in our culture. Now is the subdivision in Iowa as hallowed as Robie House? No, but it doesn't need to be. The same applies to OGP, does it need to be sacred like Sears? No, but it's a damn fine building that may come to be appreciated in much the same way in the future for it's own merits and contributions to the incremental progression of design.

Steely Dan Jan 7, 2019 8:49 PM

bears talk moved to the general discussions thread:

Suiram Jan 7, 2019 9:26 PM

Lets do this conversation without any architect / design language and discuss the reality of the design.

Unless you are building an ultra-luxury condo / Landmark office / public facility (University/event space/hospital/etc) you are not going to have the budget or the inefficiency of space use (eg. wasted space on weird floorplates / dead zones) that would allow something groundbreaking and different.

This project was built in the context of building a typical high end apartment building. To build these, as you must know as an architect, you are in a battle of efficiency to get it to pencil for a developer. You dont have much room to deviate.

So within that context you are left with a lot of glass boxes of varying sizes with slightly different glass colors and minor detailing.

In my view what Vinoly did is take a highly efficient but distinct design of "bundled tubes" (even if thats not the structural system) that maintains all the efficiency of typical apartments but creates something more iconic / distinct. Yes its just a copy and not groundbreaking but it is different / better than the alternative.

I guess my TL:DR is just this isnt high design. Its apartment boxes and we will take what we can get when someone can do something even slightly different.

Also for the 2nd tower. Its in the central station PD, but its still within the downtown zone so buying FAR would be easy. And while there are unit limits for the PD, I would be shocked if any mega-PD like Central Station actually hit their limit. Like LSE has more than enough units, they will run out of density before they run out of allowable units.

Kumdogmillionaire Jan 8, 2019 12:00 AM

Don't post very often these days, but noticed the tower popped up in the back, so the final push to the top is underway now.

colemonkee Jan 8, 2019 4:19 PM

Great shots, Kumdogmillionaire. I never realized until that angle how well Essex and NEMA play together. The vertical lines feel almost evenly spaced.

PittsburghPA Jan 8, 2019 10:29 PM


melanus Jan 9, 2019 12:22 AM

More interior renderings thank to Curbed

BVictor1 Jan 9, 2019 7:41 AM


intrepidDesign Jan 9, 2019 4:53 PM

What an absolutely gorgeous building. I'm probably in the minority here, but I hope the western parcel doesn't end up being just a larger version of this. This building is so nice, I'd like to see it just stand on it's own and a different, equally good design is chosen for the next one.

Steely Dan Jan 9, 2019 7:38 PM

* moderator note *

i moved the general south loop skyline talk to the general chicago discussions thread as it was veering a bit too far off-topic.


RedCorsair87 Jan 9, 2019 9:10 PM

I like the building and the height, but I'm annoyed by the uneven setbacks and how the top setbacks don't continue climbing in a spiral fashion. Reminds me a little of OBP in how arbitrary some of the design seems. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

cozy Jan 10, 2019 1:26 AM


Originally Posted by melanus (Post 8430230)
More interior renderings thank to Curbed

they put in the effort of editing out the vista crane lol, wish they would have just edited in the finished vista :D

kolchak Jan 12, 2019 3:52 AM


Originally Posted by RedCorsair87 (Post 8431197)
I like the building and the height, but I'm annoyed by the uneven setbacks and how the top setbacks don't continue climbing in a spiral fashion.

But they do.

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.