CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards
 

Chicago developer aims at Amazon with $10B vision for former steel plant site
http://www.trbimg.com/img-59b9cc74/t...1200/1200x1200

Website for the project is now up:
http://www.lincolnyards.com/

More and more word this week, from various sources, says that transit is an important factor for Amazon's headquarters. That might be a problem for this site if it only relies on Metra

Chicago a 'top prospect' for Amazon headquarters
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...rs-sweepstakes

Transit becomes Amazon bid focus
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...azon-bid-focus

On the flip side, is there a more transportation-friendly site in the country than the Old Post Office? 10 minute or less walk to LaSalle, Union and Ogilvie stations; 15 minute or less walk to Orange, Blue, Red, Brown and Pink lines (Green would be a little farther); water taxi stop 5 minutes away; and a highway that literally runs through the building.

O'Hare, however, is a bit of a trip (about an hour via Blue line), Midway is about 40 minutes.

That definitely tips it toward the Chicago/Philly/Boston/Brooklyn crowd, unless coming from Seattle means they'd accept the sort of lightrail system Dallas has. Which they might. Dallas light rail is fairly extensive, although the relative lack of density means that truly living car-free as an option probably isn't a choice made by upper-middle-class people in Dallas they way it can be for upper-middle-class people in Chicago/Philly/Boston/Brooklyn. Individual lines in Dallas usually only have trains every 15 minutes at most, but where 2-3 lines share track, you end up with decent frequency during prime times. Looks like their rail service hours are comparable to the Brown Line.

not sure that brooklyn/philly/boston are in the hunt so much, but chicago/dallas make sense. i think i heard denver is the lead choice, but that seems too far west. i wish they would consider somewhere less heralded than the usual suspect cities mentioned, like in the midwest or south though. somewhere they could help makeover and almost own the town, so to speak. seriously doubt those wealthy and upper middle class west coasters could bring themselves to do something like that, but it would be nice. anyway, its all just speculation -- we will see.

Denver seems like a very strange choice. Why bother with a second HQ? It barely hits any of the criteria. It's small, expensive, not particularly good transit, far from NYC and DC, etc.

Denver is the most remote MSA in the US. Locating there won't help them recruit anymore than their location in Seattle (which, besides proximity to Portland, is fairly isolated from the other major MSA's).

Also saw one publication saying that senior members at Amazon were advocating on behalf of Boston.

Boston seems highly unlikely. The reasoning given for preferring Boston was proximity to Harvard and MIT, but that's a bit silly. Those aren't regional schools, and the overwhelming majority of their graduates leave the Boston area. My guess is these "reports" about preference for Boston were leaked in order to nudge Boston to take the race more seriously, since Boston's mayor came right out and said they would offer no subsidies.

Denver was chosen by the NYTimes for Amazon by taking the RFP far too literally and applying really arbitrary criteria where the RFP is vague (which is almost everywhere). It's not a sensible choice.

I think maybe we should decouple this proposal from the Amazon search. What has been proposed so far is only the one site north of Chicago Ave, and that for only 6000 employees. That isn't going to blow up traffic for the site, and can be served by the existing Metra / L stations without too much trouble.

^ Agreed, not sure a lincoln yards thread is even needed. Especially if it is just further segmenting the amazon/chicago discussion across more threads.

O'Hare won't be an hour if Rahm gets his way... and I have a feeling Amazon bringing 50,000 well paying jobs to town could go a long way towards the powers that be bringing the express o'hare-to-downtown train to fruition.

Is Bezos going to make his decision soon or does he intend to go on a nationwide tour to get his ass kissed by as many politicians as possible?

I don't see the need for the express train to and from O'Hare. I think the blue line does the job well enough. I'd rather see the brown line extended to O'Hare as well. That would certainly help decrease reliance on the blue line. It would even open up job opportunities in River North/Streeterville for people living on the NW side. They wouldn't have to go down to the loop or take a bus east on Division, Chicago, or Grand.

Not sure if someone should open a chicago amazon thread...but to continue it really seems Chicago is the perfect fit compared to all the competition...there is literally only about 4 cities on the list that are in my opinion considered "world class cities" and they are NY, Boston, Philly, DC... the rest are second tier..very nice cities but not really on a global scale... of those cities I dont see any that can compete with Chicago for what amazon is looking for... we have the central location so strategically its the best choice... .the affordability (relative to east coast cities and even seattle) ...transit (second best in country).. multiple sites that meet there requirement (like 3 or 4 solid contenders they can choose from), the population that far exceeds all there needs, the vibrancy and vitality that really only NYC really has

I think this Lincoln Yards (bleghhh, that name) article from Curbed a few months ago provides a good idea of what the original conceptual massing was supposed to look like... And perhaps the render at the beginning of this thread still reflects some of that:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/7/26...-606-extension

(The master plan diagram within the link is very reminiscent of Studio Gang's other typical diagram illustrations..did they design this?)

Regardless, I think a lot of this is serendipitous for Sterling Bay since they created something that magically fits a big part of Amazon's needs...or maybe it's not serendipitous...

The O'hare express line is something Rahm got in his head that would be a huge benefit to the city. I think he is exaggerating the impact it would have. Too bad we can't have a dedicated express rail like NYC so we can have regular express trains. I would also prefer to see line extensions instead of this O'hare express line..

The purple line is a dedicated express line from Howard to Sheridan (Wilson?). I don't think Chicago has any real demand for another dedicated express line anywhere else at the present. If Amazon does end up in Chicago I can see there being demand for additional express lines. Maybe along the green line should the gentry continue to push west?

I do think the O'Hare branch could support an express line, although it's almost already an express line north of Belmont.

There are basically 16 stations on the O'Hare branch. Making an express south of Damen would be difficult and expensive, although if the west-pointed portals west of Clark/Lake were utilized you could create zero-station tunnels in parallel for probably a reasonable price since stations are a huge part of any subway cost. I think that if you had parallel tunnels from about Lake/Clinton and re-joined just south of Logan Square with stops at Logan and Belmont, then built overhead express tracks with a stop at Jefferson Park and Cumberland, and used rolling stock and tracks that supported 60mph service, you'd probably be able to get from Clark/Lake to O'Hare in 25 minutes, which would be plenty fast given that a dedicated heavy rail solution would probably only do it in 20 minutes and drop passengers in the West Loop instead of the Central Loop.

If those ran every 10 minutes all day, or maybe dropping to 20 minute headways before 7am and after 8pm, and the rolling stock was compatible with the 'L' tracks but had upgraded seating, loggage shelves, and cost $10 from the departing Loop station under Block 37, and $10 from O'Hare it'd be among the best airport connections in the world. At the intermediate stops it might be difficult to levy a higher fare, but if you could find an operationally efficient way to do it, you could charge $5 at the intermediate stations. Otherwise intermediate people would just get a great discount. It'd probably be best to figure out a way to charge efficiently if for no other reason than to prevent rush hour commuters from crushing the higher-fare customers at those four stations, although relieving some pressure from rush hour trails on the Blue Line from Belmont and Logan Square would be good.

What would it cost? That's the billion dollar question. But let's take a stab at it. Extending from the already-existing west-facing portals near Clinton/Lake to Logan Square is about 5.5 miles of tunnel. That portion seems like $200 million per mile would be feasible. Maybe even as low as $150 million per mile. Portal to attach to Logan Square probably $250 million. Elevated structure either over existing Blue Line, or running next to the UP-NW tracks perhaps $150 million per mile. Station with connections at Jefferson Park, $150 million, station with connections at Cumberland, $150 million, trackwork to rejoin mail Blue Line tracks west of Rosemont, $250 million, station enhancements at O'Hare to create dedicated part of station exclusively for express, $100 million. Station work in Block 37 to complete that, $150 million.

Total: $1.8 - $2.6 billion range. That seems comparable to estimates for the solution incompatible with existing 'L'. Using compatible 'L' means that, if it seemed worthy, you could through-run trains south of Block 37 just skipping stations but no dedicated express tracks to Cermak for connectivity to McCormick area for whatever it would cost to build a dedicated station at Cermak ($150 million?). Since that would back up against existing service on the Red Line, but would jump to the Green Line after Roosevelt, that portion of the run would vary from 5 minutes to 10 minutes depending on track traffic at the time. If you made a split station just north of Cermak, with trains moving off the line to standing tracks, and a 5-minute pause at Block 37 for loading, you'd be serving the McCormick area and Chinatown with 35-40 minute single-seat ride to O'Hare covering you convention area, the Central Loop, with a few extra stops along the NW side (you could even maybe skip Cumberland to save a couple minutes), for $10-15. That'd probably be pretty well-used by travelers, and maybe even some well-heeled commuters. If you sold a monthly "express" pass targeted at commuters in Logan Square/Avondale or Jefferson Park who wanted a nice ride downtown, you could probably price that at $150 alone or $200 to include an all-CTA monthly pass. If I lived in Jefferson Park and worked in the Central Loop, I'd probably be willing to pay $150-200 per month for an express ride in nice cars to the Loop to/from Jefferson Park.

Ald. Hopkins holding up the sale of city property to Sterling Bay in North Branch:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...anch-land-deal

^ DO NOT F THIS UP, Alderwhores. We citizens cannot afford even the slightest hiccup.

Zoning should be kept far out of aldermanic hands. Get rid of 40 of these chumps and then I might be ok with them having a say.

Read the article. The hang up isn't over zoning

Like the rush to sell the parking meters... I think we left $1 Billion or more on the table? No need to rush the sale of city assets.... unless an insider is getting some sort of benefit.

this is a legitimate concern

chicago dosent exactly have a great track record with its sales of assets.

Maybe this is a ploy to get Sterling Bay to cough up more money?

I'd imagine they'd run into some legal issues with the brewesry if they tried to brand the development "Goose Island". They might be able to get away with Lincoln Yard at/on Goose Island, but that's a mouthful.

This is north of Goose Island.

Onni Group's bud was $10 million higher, but they said they'd close the deal in 12-17 months. Sterling Bay said they'd close it within 120 days. While $10 million less, Sterling Bay's offer was a much safer play

Considering Amazon's time frame for HQ2, this is definitely the safer play. I'm pretty sure even the aldermorons can figure that out, considering what is possibly at stake here. It would be pretty tough to win reelection if you are the reason Amazon skipped Chicago for another city. Then again, I might be putting too much faith in the electorate of our fair city :)

I just don't see this as the prime contender for HQ2 for reasons we have discussed before at length. But if we insist on this being such, then Rahm can pull a Daley and steamroll the Alderman in order to get the votes he needs to push this through.

How badly he pushes for this would be a good indicator of whether he sees this as a fitting site for Amazon and whether Amazon takes interest in it.

Personally I think that the OPO is the best option for HQ2, but its not going to be what Rahm, you or I think is the best site. Bezos is going to choose in the end. Its much better to offer him multiple excellent sites in the city, instead of putting all our eggs in one basket.

Get the property into the hands of a seasoned developer that knows whats at stake and knows how not to fumble a development of this scale. The rest is then up to forces outside our control.

wouldn't selling to an adjacent property owner demand a higher price tag, not lower? I've always heard that continuous property control has a higher value, not less.

It's important to keep in mind that any sealed-bid process is going to have some randomness and strategic behavior (this wasn't a strategy-proof sealed-bid second-price auction, after all), so we cannot necessarily infer bidders' private values from their bids.

As much as I like competitive bidding, I think the public wins here when the city is able to coordinate planning with a single master developer.

City planners are expecting Sterling Bay to take the lead in funding and building new infrastructure for the area. Currently it seems like SB's plan includes a new north/south bridge linking Southport to Throop, and another pedestrian bridge at Wisconsin. If the 2FM site goes to another developer and not to Sterling Bay, what incentive does Sterling Bay have to pay for infrastructure that enriches their rival?

The end result would be two isolated pods of development on opposite sides of the river, with no new infrastructure linking them or easing traffic on the choked streets in this area.

Well this is encouraging news

United Soccer League expansion team coming to North Side site proposed for Amazon's HQ2
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...121-story.html

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5a147e08/t...ge/750/750x422

This new soccer team looks primed to eat the Fire's lunch. Hopefully its successful and kick jumps the Fire to move back into the city from the industrial suburb they play in now.

The Fire's contract with Bridgeview/Toyota Park is so jaw-droppingly bad that I can't see any upside to this development or the prospect of finding a separate, closer site for that organization. I'm honestly just rooting for the USL team to suck up the Fire's attendance so much that they fold, leaving the MLS to invite the USL club in. I don't think it's likely we see anything other than A) an extremely financially troubled Bridgeview Fire, B) a Fire that sustains popularity under a mountain of debt after relocation, or C) they gone.

I'm assuming this is being privately financed? Sterling Bay must be feeling pretty confident about the area if they're buying a franchise and building them a stadium...

I thought that the Fire had a sweetheart deal with the village of Bridgeview. The town is on the hook for the entire cost of the stadium (construction and maintenance), which has caused the municipal portion of the local property taxes to more than double over the last decade since its construction.

As I understand it, it hasn't been an ideal contract for either party. While Bridgeview had to finance the stadium, and also has seen meager/non-existent growth to cover the expenses, the Fire is also stuck in the lease until the 2037 season, and still have to pay usage fees regardless of their location, and compensation for games in Chicago not played at Toyota. Tons of debt on one side, and quite the buyout both upfront and over time on the other end. The polarization of the terms seemingly hasn't done any favors.

Wow, looks like both sides had some terrible lawyers in retainer. I guess the Fire isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It seems that our best bet is getting that USL team to become popular enough to join the MLS. Chicago is certainly large enough to support two MLS teams.

Wouldn't construction of a sports stadium necessitate traffic studies, environmental reviews, community/neighborhood input, various levels of city approvals, etc? Though maybe this land is already zoned appropriately that Sterling Bay can construct whatever it wants? Not that I want a potential new sports team/stadium to get hung up by NIMBYs, just surprised by the announcement.

^ I'm actually don't think much community input will be needed since there aren't that many 2nd ward residents surrounding the development. The 43rd ward NIMBYs are going to give a helluva fuss about it, but ultimately most of the North Branch is in the 2nd and 27th ward. We already know that Brian Hopkins can be pro-development if there's not much NIMBYism, and Walter Burnett already said a couple months ago that he doesn't care about the concerns of residents from other wards about development in the North Branch. There still is a helluva lot of approvals needed from the city, but having to worry less about NIMBYs certainly makes it easier. Here's a reminder of how screwed up the wards are for this area:

http://www.centersquarejournal.com/w...w_2nd_ward.jpg
Source: Chicago Map

Retractable roof? Un heard of in this city. If Solder field was retractable we would have had the Olympics and super bowls and winter convention space.

No one is smart enough to put a retractable dome in Chicago, it makes too much since. Even though Milwaukee figured out how to do it years ago.

Too bad it will still be too small for any real sport though.

Most retractable roof stadiums in the US (and Europe, Japan, etc) are oversized, taxpayer-funded albatrosses. For all the money spent on a retractable roof at Miller Park, it has exactly ONE public event scheduled this winter, which is a 5K in the parking lot. They do host concerts (next one is April) but Wrigley also host concerts without a roof.

Seriously, these roofs run into the hundreds of millions. I don't see how they make business sense unless you have a bunch of free money to burn.

This whole stadium idea seems pie-in-the-sky unless and until Sterling Bay lands a major Amazon-esque tenant, and the retractable roof is just a sweet nothing that Gloor mentioned to build hype.

I could see demand in Chicago for a small outdoor stadium, for a minor-league soccer team, high school sporting events, and other community uses (tennis tournament?)

The stadium will seat around 20,000. Which is about the White Sox's average attendance

I think it has the potential to serve as a stadium analogue to Wintrust Arena in the multi-use sense. Especially being empty in the winter/USL off-season.

What the fuck?!

Not to be too picayune, but it's not really the roofs that are the biggest cost in a dome stadium project. It's that once you enclose a stadium, you need massive amounts air conditioning. It's all the HVAC equipment, ducts, etc., that are the biggest cost. But your point is well taken.