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Blahshead May 16, 2018 11:17 PM

The latest from Alderman Hopkins:

https://i.imgur.com/Odx50mD.png

AlpacaObsessor May 17, 2018 12:36 PM

Live Nation to Help Develop Lincoln Yards Entertainment District on North Side

-Looks like Sterling Bay wants to build an entire entertainment district on the site. Three to five venues ranging from something as small as a 100 seat amphitheater to a ~8,000 seat venue.
-Also, I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere else but the article states they're looking to start construction within the next 18 months if everything goes well.

edit: some formatting and stuff

the urban politician May 17, 2018 1:32 PM

Hmmm, not sure about this. I like the soccer stadium, and some entertainment is fine and all, but I kind of wonder if we need that many more performing venues in the city, or if it will just cannabilize other spaces? I’m thinking about the vacant Uptown Theatre and the delayed Congress Theatre rehab.

I thought this was going to be a Office and residential district? Come on, Sterling Bay, let’s not try to turn this into Rosemont 2.0

KWillChicago May 17, 2018 1:45 PM

I kind of agree. If they wanted to make a theater district build it around the United Center like the Staples district in L.A.

the urban politician May 17, 2018 2:03 PM

Sterling Bay and other master developers aren’t in the business of creating places. They are in the business of signing leases. Soccer team? Done. Google? Done. McDonald’s? Done.

Now Live Nation? Done.

This is a good thing, but in some ways it’s bad. Instead of this neighborhood developing organically, the neighborhood’s development is dictated by whatever big leases Sterling Bay can get. But increasingly the issue is that this threatens to cannibalize existing venues in other parts of town.

We have one of the most gorgeous movie palaces in the country (Uptown Theatre) falling to pieces, BEGGING for redevelopment. Atlanta, Dallas, and Phoenix will NEVER build something like that—ever. But instead of pushing to get that redeveloped and getting a master lease going with that, we’re going to see Sterling Bay’s 5 new venues pull the demand away from that for at least another generation. And keep in mind that no matter what SB builds at Lincoln Yards it will be easily reproducible in any Sunbelt wannabe city.

Bad idea. Bad for Chicago. Bad for the beleaguered Uptown Theatre, if this happens.....

JK47 May 17, 2018 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8191024)
We have one of the most gorgeous movie palaces in the country (Uptown Theatre) falling to pieces, BEGGING for redevelopment.


The Uptown Theatre really isn't helped by having an owner (Jam Productions) who also owns another nearby theater (Riviera) and is in no hurry to do anything about the state of the Uptown. They seem perfectly content to just let the theater rot...unless someone else were to pay to have it restored (at which point they'd happily book acts there).

k1052 May 17, 2018 2:23 PM

If you land an enormous corporate office tenant then filling these proposed venues won't be much of a problem. Also said tenant will want to use some of them for their own purposes on a regular basis.

the urban politician May 17, 2018 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8191039)
The Uptown Theatre really isn't helped by having an owner (Jam Productions) who also owns another nearby theater (Riviera) and is in no hurry to do anything about the state of the Uptown. They seem perfectly content to just let the theater rot...unless someone else were to pay to have it restored (at which point they'd happily book acts there).

I wish Rahm would strong arm them the way he strong armed Bill Davies, the former Post Office owner

KWillChicago May 17, 2018 3:31 PM

Has Jam ever flirted the idea of selling? How much would a full renovation cost?

Kumdogmillionaire May 17, 2018 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWillChicago (Post 8191159)
Has Jam ever flirted the idea of selling? How much would a full renovation cost?

Way more than it could every be worth. The building in its original state was ornate and beautiful. To bring it back to that state and maintain it would be far too expensive to be financially viable in the culture of 5 year plans.

k1052 May 17, 2018 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWillChicago (Post 8191159)
Has Jam ever flirted the idea of selling? How much would a full renovation cost?

Tens of millions.

left of center May 17, 2018 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8191039)
The Uptown Theatre really isn't helped by having an owner (Jam Productions) who also owns another nearby theater (Riviera) and is in no hurry to do anything about the state of the Uptown. They seem perfectly content to just let the theater rot...unless someone else were to pay to have it restored (at which point they'd happily book acts there).

They are happy to sit on it and keep potential competitors from getting their hands on it and providing potential competition for Jam Production's existing venues. The city really does need to force them to either shit or get off the pot... the longer the Uptown sits, the more expensive and unlikely the eventual rehabbing will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8190972)
Hmmm, not sure about this. I like the soccer stadium, and some entertainment is fine and all, but I kind of wonder if we need that many more performing venues in the city, or if it will just cannabilize other spaces? I’m thinking about the vacant Uptown Theatre and the delayed Congress Theatre rehab.

I thought this was going to be a Office and residential district? Come on, Sterling Bay, let’s not try to turn this into Rosemont 2.0

My thoughts exactly. We have so much historic, underutilized infrastructure just sitting there. More competition in the venue space market is going to doom a lot of these old movie palaces and dance halls.

JK47 May 17, 2018 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWillChicago (Post 8191159)
Has Jam ever flirted the idea of selling? How much would a full renovation cost?


Jam bought it for about $3.2M in a bankruptcy sale. Full renovation and restoration would probably run in the region between $80M to $100M. Their carrying costs for the site are probably so low that simply eliminating competition from the Riviera more than compensates for it.

JK47 May 17, 2018 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8191048)
If you land an enormous corporate office tenant then filling these proposed venues won't be much of a problem. Also said tenant will want to use some of them for their own purposes on a regular basis.


In other news the Mayor of Arlington, Texas stated that his city was rejected primarily because Amazon is looking for an "advanced urban setting."

Which, interestingly enough, would also exclude the suburban counties around D.C. Loudon (VA), Fairfax (VA), and Montgomery (MD) counties are many things but they are definitely not urban in any shape or form.

k1052 May 17, 2018 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8191308)
In other news the Mayor of Arlington, Texas stated that his city was rejected primarily because Amazon is looking for an "advanced urban setting."

Which, interestingly enough, would also exclude the suburban counties around D.C. Loudon (VA), Fairfax (VA), and Montgomery (MD) counties are many things but they are definitely not urban in any shape or form.

I don't really see Amazon landing a huge office presence in a suburban setting whatever part of they country the end up in. They've had a lot of chances to do so with other leasing and have pretty much stayed away from it except for SV (where there is little choice).

Same with Google I think too.

Apple's next campus will for sure be a suburban office park somewhere since the are almost literally incapable of thinking any differently about office space/setting.

Kenmore May 17, 2018 5:44 PM

uptown theater really just needs to be razed, it's too far gone and it has no modern use.

shame but it is what it is.

left of center May 17, 2018 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenmore (Post 8191332)
uptown theater really just needs to be razed, it's too far gone and it has no modern use.

shame but it is what it is.

I wouldn't agree to the no modern use, there are plenty of old vaudeville movie houses that have been turned into live show venues. As for it being too far gone, you may be right, at least from a financial perspective.

LaSalle.St.Station May 17, 2018 5:57 PM

I would think the uptown and Congress would be prime benefactors of the tax the city charges developers to build in downtown.

Via Chicago May 17, 2018 6:00 PM

F Live Nation, esp since this whole dumb project is probably gonna spell the end of The Hideout

LouisVanDerWright May 17, 2018 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 8191258)
They are happy to sit on it and keep potential competitors from getting their hands on it and providing potential competition for Jam Production's existing venues. The city really does need to force them to either shit or get off the pot... the longer the Uptown sits, the more expensive and unlikely the eventual rehabbing will be.



My thoughts exactly. We have so much historic, underutilized infrastructure just sitting there. More competition in the venue space market is going to doom a lot of these old movie palaces and dance halls.

Jam will never sell the Uptown unless forced. Here's the thing, and I've said this several times before, venues don't compete with bigger or smaller venues, they compete in rough "classes" of occupancy. 200-500 person rooms, 1000 person rooms, 2500 person rooms. 5000 person rooms and on up to Arena sizes. You might have some overlap where maybe an act that could sell out a 5000 person venue will play down to a 2000 person venue like Chicago Theater to get premium ticket pricing for playing and "intimate venue", but the Rivera at 2500 people isn't regularly competing for acts that would play the Congress or Aragon. Just look at Jam's previous portfolio of venues: Aragon at 5000, Rivera at 2500, Vic at 1200, Park West at 900. They don't own two venues of the same class except maybe Park West and Vic which have a lot more demand because they are smaller rooms. For this reason ain't nobody ever fixing the Uptown unless the government pays for it. The Chicago venue market is already saturated. Live Nation is just going to use these venues for outdoor amphitheater like shows, I highly doubt they will build a purpose built indoor room of 2000 or 5000 people. They already have the Aragon and several other venues and don't need to cannibalize demand. However there's virtually unlimited demand for outdoor theater spaces in the short summer months so I can see them going for the soccer stadium or other spaces. This of course raises the question of how much outdoor space this will actually have and how much will be essentially ground leases to corporate interests like the stadium or outdoor venues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8191039)
The Uptown Theatre really isn't helped by having an owner (Jam Productions) who also owns another nearby theater (Riviera) and is in no hurry to do anything about the state of the Uptown. They seem perfectly content to just let the theater rot...unless someone else were to pay to have it restored (at which point they'd happily book acts there).

Jam only bought the Uptown because, back when they had a 30 year lease on Aragon, Live Nation was going to buy Uptown and create a competing 5000 capacity venue. Jam pulled their political strings and got the Live Nation deal killed and sold to them instead as the "local heros". Of course they never actually planned to repair and reopen the venue, they were planning to mothball it to keep their competition out. Now their lease ended at Aragon and Live Nation bought it. Jam consists of two old guys and I don't see them trying to create a new 5000 capacity venue at their age especially when they still have the Chicago Theater and Auditorium to book at by renting them for the night for their bigger acts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWillChicago (Post 8191159)
Has Jam ever flirted the idea of selling? How much would a full renovation cost?

$40 million+

Congress was $25 million and I'm sure that's only ballooned since I saw it.


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