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ethereal_reality Apr 3, 2013 2:33 PM

:previous: Excellent post on the old Willoughby Hotel and it's Pershing Square environs tovanger2!
What does it say on the dome in that first photo.....something Bath? All Baths maybe-

ethereal_reality Apr 3, 2013 3:13 PM

from ebay

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/459/aa...tithinkeba.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/459/aa...tithinkeba.jpg


Devils Walk? Imagine my surprise when I saw the larger image.

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/459/aa...tithinkeba.jpg

Isn't this Court Flight?
__

ethereal_reality Apr 3, 2013 3:19 PM

..."north end Western Ave, Los Angeles"

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/4485/a...sternavewm.jpg
ebay


reverse
http://imageshack.us/a/img17/4485/aa...sternavewm.jpg
__

SoCal1954 Apr 3, 2013 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6076561)
1971 (below). I used to wait for my bus home to Hollywood in the mid-1970's in front of the former Willoughby's, which was looking very tired. Both the old hotel and the Auditorium Building had rooftop billboards then. Street lamps had changed yet again, not for the better. Pershing Square was very bare. Cops, sirens blaring, used to often drive right into it and spread-eagle suspects across the hoods of their squad cars. One of the things I was most struck by, returning to LA from London, was how old LA was. There were more 19th-century and early 20th-century buildings still around then. Not really much different from large areas of London.

The upper floors of the old Willoughby were abandoned. After being away for a few days at the end of the '70s, I returned to find that the top two floors had been demolished, the remainder covered with a flat, tar-paper roof. The single-story remnant hung on until 1984:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l...114%2520PM.jpg
http://www.urbanity.es/foro/urbanism....html?langid=1

Now:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q...925%2520PM.jpg
gsv


Yes, excellent overview of this building and area! I have similar information and memories of downtown Pasadena, where I grew up, and which I will share in the forum as time goes on.
Also, I noted the old radio tower in these shots, dating back to the 1920's and under multiple call letters over the years--predominantly KRKD. Attached history:

http://www.socalradiohistory.com/krkd.html

Furthermore, I (also) took note of the very attractive, mini-skirted, young woman in the crosswalk in the 1971 B&W photo; unfortunately, I have no history on her...other than we are most likely close to the same age today. :)

belmont bob Apr 3, 2013 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6076561)




1971 (below). I used to wait for my bus home to Hollywood in the mid-1970's in front of the former Willoughby's, which was looking very tired. Both the old hotel and the Auditorium Building had rooftop billboards then. Street lamps had changed yet again, not for the better. Pershing Square was very bare. Cops, sirens blaring, used to often drive right into it and spread-eagle suspects across the hoods of their squad cars. One of the things I was most struck by, returning to LA from London, was how old LA was. There were more 19th-century and early 20th-century buildings still around then. Not really much different from large areas of London.

The upper floors of the old Willoughby were abandoned. After being away for a few days at the end of the '70s, I returned to find that the top two floors had been demolished, the remainder covered with a flat, tar-paper roof. The single-story remnant hung on until 1984:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l...114%2520PM.jpg
http://www.urbanity.es/foro/urbanism....html?langid=1


gsv

As a young man I used to spend a great deal of my time in downtown and this intersection was by no means foreign to me. In fact the last photo shows a clear sign “BOOKS” on the 5th. street side which was a news and magazine stand as well as books that I used to frequent a lot. I had little spare money in those days so I used to stop in here to browse (without buying…lol) all the time. I don’t remember much about the building. I guess I was not yet caught up with that being a priority with me in those years (1958-1968)

belmont bob Apr 3, 2013 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6076843)

sure looks like Court Flight to me!

SoCal1954 Apr 3, 2013 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077235)
sure looks like Court Flight to me!

Yes. You can see the edge of the roof line of the nearby large building:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2q9xkkm.jpg

belmont bob Apr 3, 2013 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5327957)
the same view once again a year earlier


here is an image of the tunnel in 1928

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics17/00028090.jpg
Source: LAPL

I found this image on this old post...and it just seemed to strike me funny..this poor traffic cop is just giving up as he is about to be run down from behind...but it sure gives a great feeling of what the area was like...the hills, the old houses so close in to downtown, the tunnels now gone and the streetcars...are we sure w're not just dreaming all of this?? look at the same view today and it's as if we are not on the same planet.

belmont bob Apr 3, 2013 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal1954 (Post 6077253)
Yes. You can see the edge of the roof line of the nearby large building:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2q9xkkm.jpg

what a great photo...no question about where that photo was taken!!! Has anyone ever noticed “COURT FLIGHT” painted on the surface twice between the two tracks?

SoCal1954 Apr 3, 2013 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077276)
what a great photo...no question about where that photo was taken!!! Has anyone ever noticed “COURT FLIGHT” painted on the surface twice between the two tracks?

Yes.

And also notice the 'scale' at the bottom entrance; must have been, for total passenger weight limits for the individual cars, which were counter-balanced, as I recall?

Also note the very old style street lamps, and the obvious horse drawn delivery wagon at the very far right of the frame.

In operation from 1904 to 1943; this is obviously an early photo.

Photo credit: KCET.org

tovangar2 Apr 3, 2013 10:42 PM

Angels Flight and Devils Walk. LOL. That's funny.


Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077231)
As a young man I used to spend a great deal of my time in downtown and this intersection was by no means foreign to me. In fact the last photo shows a clear sign “BOOKS” on the 5th. street side which was a news and magazine stand as well as books that I used to frequent a lot. I had little spare money in those days so I used to stop in here to browse (without buying…lol) all the time. I don’t remember much about the building. I guess I was not yet caught up with that being a priority with me in those years (1958-1968)

I don't blame you for not noticing the building. By the post-war era almost all ground-floor shops had been modernized on the old buildings. I noticed this one in particular because I walked towards it from 5th and Flower every weekday (I also have a habit of looking up to check out old facades, which sometimes leads to walking into lampposts, other pedestrians, etc. So dorky). When I knew it in the 70s, the guano on the bay-window roofs was inches thick and pigeons used to fly in and out of the windows. The remembered glamour of 50s DTLA had flown. I used to wonder about the history of the place. I never guessed it was once a free-standing hotel in a mostly residential district. Research was so difficult in those days. No one appreciates the net more than I do.

Thank you e_r and SoCal1954 for your kind words.

P.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6076785)
What does it say on the dome in that first photo.....something Bath? All Baths maybe-

I'm still unsure. "BATH" is clear enough. A. L. Bath (thx to WS1911)

Oviatt Building Fan Apr 3, 2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6075900)
This is a very interesting photograph from the archive of a sign company.

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/2999/a...alheathdot.jpg
http://www.federalheath.com/company-...r-past/?pid=13





You've made my day with the photo above. We're looking at the southeast corner of the Consolidated Realty Building, probably very soon after 1930. The luxurious "Alexander & Oviatt" haberdashery occupied this very space from 1923 to 1928, after which it moved into the just-completed Oviatt Building near Sixth and Olive. Here's a photo of this same corner in 1923:



http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...UStore1923.jpg



And here's what the haberdashery looked like inside:



http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...postcards2.jpg

tovangar2 Apr 3, 2013 11:47 PM

The Oviatt
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oviatt Building Fan (Post 6077512)
You've made my day with the photo above. We're looking at the southwest corner of the Consolidated Realty Building, probably very soon after 1930. The luxurious "Alexander & Oviatt" haberdashery occupied this very space from 1923 to 1928, after which it moved into the just-completed Oviatt Building near Sixth and Olive.

And there it is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6075990)

Oddly enough, I'd picked this angle from gsv to post because it framed the Oviatt so nicely. I had no idea about the connection between the addresses.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug...alier-20120809

belmont bob Apr 3, 2013 11:55 PM

More on Court Flight and Hotel Broadway
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077276)
what a great photo...no question about where that photo was taken!!! Has anyone ever noticed “COURT FLIGHT” painted on the surface twice between the two tracks?

After spending a little more time just staring at this photo I have questions that maybe have been answered before – then again maybe not. But the “New” Hotel Broadway’s three buildings are not architecturally the same with the front building having greater detail. The simpler windows and cornice the rear buildings would seem to be from a later date. I’m wondering if there may have been photos that would show only the front building and was Court Flight in place before the rear portions were built?
And I wonder what all the debris in the street is about. But the fun part is the scale. Did they really have every passenger line up to be weighed during peak boarding? Haha, Send them to Weight Watchers. My wife will get them in shape!

belmont bob Apr 4, 2013 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6077502)
Angels Flight and Devils Walk. LOL. That's funny.




I don't blame you for not noticing the building. By the post-war era almost all ground-floor shops had been modernized on the old buildings. I noticed this one in particular because I walked towards it from 5th and Flower every weekday (I also have a habit of looking up to check out old facades, which sometimes leads to walking into lampposts, other pedestrians, etc. So dorky). When I knew it in the 70s, the guano on the bay-window roofs was inches thick and pigeons used to fly in and out of the windows. The remembered glamour of 50s DTLA had flown. I used to wonder about the history of the place. I never guessed it was once a free-standing hotel in a mostly residential district. Research was so difficult in those days. No one appreciates the net more than I do.

Thank you e_r and SoCal1954 for your kind words.

P.S.



https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...650%2520PM.jpg

I'm still unsure. "BATH" is clear enough.

Yes tovangar2, I now have that habit of looking up..especially when I get downtown Los Angeles. My wife loves the jewelry mart area, so when we go down and park over on Hope St. and walk down Seventh to Hill, I love to admire the remaining buildings, some not in the best of shape, but to help keep in my mind what it used to be like all over those blocks that I walked so much 50 years ago.

And who remembers the Italian Kitchen on 8th.??? best lasagna I ever had….

MichaelRyerson Apr 4, 2013 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077596)
After spending a little more time just staring at this photo I have questions that maybe have been answered before – then again maybe not. But the “New” Hotel Broadway’s three buildings are not architecturally the same with the front building having greater detail. The simpler windows and cornice the rear buildings would seem to be from a later date. I’m wondering if there may have been photos that would show only the front building and was Court Flight in place before the rear portions were built?
And I wonder what all the debris in the street is about. But the fun part is the scale. Did they really have every passenger line up to be weighed during peak boarding? Haha, Send them to Weight Watchers. My wife will get them in shape!

No, I don't think the scale had any connection to the flight cars except, perhaps, that it may have been owned by the operator (or his wife who survived him and ran the flight for a long time after his death). I think the scale was simply a penny scale placed on the sidewalk to capture the occasional pedestrian with a loose penny and some curiosity. The cars, as they related to each other, would be quite unevenly loaded with many more people coming down the hill in the morning hours and conversely many more people going back up in the afternoon.

Chuckaluck Apr 4, 2013 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal1954 (Post 6077380)
And also notice the 'scale' at the bottom entrance; must have been, for total passenger weight limits for the individual cars, which were counter-balanced, as I recall?

Interesting observation or recollection.;)

Balancing the weight of each car makes sense. But I tend to agree with MR ^^ as I can't see how that would have been practically implemented, especially on busy days. A lot of coordination between upper and lower operators? What happened when there were many riders going one direction - on only one car? Non-human ballast for the other? I would guess that the electric propulsion was designed to handle the additional weight/effort - within limits. :shrug:

More likely that the scales were commercial enterprises on their own? Get your weight for a penny? To be sure, Angels' Flight seemed to be equipped with at least one scale too. To the best of my knowledge, which isn't saying much, the current Angel's flight does not require passenger weight estimates.

1930s - 296 S. Olive A Flight
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics18/00008568.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics18/00008568.jpg

1938 - Catalina Island
http://jpg1.lapl.org/00100/00100603.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/00100/00100603.jpg


Date unknown probably '60s
http://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/af_003_joelacey.jpghttp://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/af_003_joelacey.jpg

1930s Court FLight
http://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/la_cf_001.jpghttp://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/la_cf_001.jpg

http://p2.la-img.com/472/2958/1268848_1_l.jpghttp://p2.la-img.com/472/2958/1268848_1_l.jpg

SoCal1954 Apr 4, 2013 1:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckaluck (Post 6077665)
Interesting observation or recollection.;)

Balancing the weight of each car makes sense. But I tend to agree with MR ^^ as I can't see how that would have been practically implemented, especially on busy days. A lot of coordination between upper and lower operators? What happened when there were many riders going one direction - on only one car? Non-human ballast for the other? I would guess that the electric propulsion was designed to handle the additional weight/effort - within limits. :shrug:

More likely that the scales were commercial enterprises on their own? Get your weight for a penny? To be sure, Angels' Flight seemed to be equipped with at least one scale too. To the best of my knowledge, which isn't saying much, the current Angel's flight does not require passenger weight estimates.

I agree with the assessments each of you have, with respect to the penny scale.

I must admit, I did have my tongue, slightly planted in my cheek, when I offered that info up. The word 'facetious', is large in my life. :D

One last thing--Until I discovered this site/forum/thread, I thought I was the only guy in the world, who [obsessed] over things like historical details about old buildings and places!? I drive my wife and daughter crazy some times, on drives in Pasadena, Altadena, the Grand Central Air Terminal site, and hikes up to Echo Mtn...etc. :nerd:

tovangar2 Apr 4, 2013 2:42 AM

Italian Kitchen/Commercial Exchange Building/CommEx
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6077612)

And who remembers the Italian Kitchen on 8th.??? best lasagna I ever had….

I do.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1...41659%2BPM.jpg
gsv

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_...23225%2BPM.jpg
flickr

The Italian Kitchen was in the old Commercial Exchange Building (Walker & Eisen, 1924), soon to get gentrified:
LA Curbed: http://la.curbed.com/tags/commercial-exchange-building
LAT: http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,6795122.story

The CommEx has one of the tallest neon signs in LA:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...25331%2BPM.jpg
http://pantlessalley.blogspot.com/20...developer.html

The Commercial Exchange was the building that got a vertical slice taken out of it to widen Olive, if you recall that discussion:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=11560

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i...10110%2BPM.jpg
www.remahortmannfoundation.org

The CommEx is just across 8th fom the old Hotel Bristol which is looking mighty spiffy these days:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T...21806%2BPM.jpg
gsv

The Bristol was used as a filming location for "Gia" (1998), "Fight Club" (1999), etc.

I didn't think I'd live to see umbrella tables outside the Bristol. Just amazing. Gentrification makes one's head spin sometimes.


P.S.

The CommEx in transition:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j...21904%2BPM.jpg
gsv

http://thefreehand.com/losangeles/

ersatz01 Apr 4, 2013 2:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6076561)

The Auditorium was destroyed in 1985. The site remains vacant. Also in the mid-1980s, the Biltmore turned its back on Pershing Square, relocating its entrance to Grand Avenue.

Now:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q...925%2520PM.jpg
gsv

The site isn't really vacant... it's the Pershing Square metro redline lightrail stop now, which I ride constantly. Thanks for the history of SE corner.


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