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gsjansen Sep 5, 2014 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6718657)
Okay, I might take this on. Give me a couple of days to sober up and then I'll tell ya. By the way, do we think the names are all in the mysterious CDs? Anybody got a lead on the names of the owners of the house on the NW corner of 4th and Grand Avenue and/or the name of the owners of the house on the SW corner of 4th and Hope Street?

Mr. Ryerson....while you sober up, and I Sober down, you might want to try the WPA household census cards and employee records at USC digital libraries....

I have tried in the past to wade my way through this onslaught of information..........eventually throwing up my hands at the enormity of the records, without being a Los Angeles resident with a free access library card to the library's sanborne maps, I gave up.

But I will have the next drink in your honor...go man go! :cheers:

MichaelRyerson Sep 5, 2014 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 6718494)
As Michael R said, it is the New High Street Brunswig Drug Annex building.

Here's another view taken from city hall in 1969 that clearly shows the building

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5004/...a6150b93_o.jpg GSJ
I think I had originally found this image on the USC site.......but not entirely sure............


Yeah, that's a more pleasing look without all the glare and interestingly yours shows the other little Brunswig building. This little building used to sit just about where the larger building is now sitting. In about 1930 Brunswig, just prior to the extension of Spring Street through to Sunset Boulevard, bought the Prudent Beaudry house and had it torn down so they could have this little building lifted and moved onto the Beaudry lot (ala the Alhambra Apartments) so that they could erect the larger building. So what we're looking at here is the smaller building sitting on the exact spot on which Prudent Beaudry's house once sat.

Tetsu Sep 5, 2014 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6716390)
No, I don't think so. I don't see anything on the vacant lot on the NE corner of 4th and Grand Avenue in the picture of the model you included in your post.
Madame Hershey had her house split in half in 1906 (at about the time she had taken up residence in, and was in negotiations to buy, the Hollywood Hotel
from Whitley) in order to move it to the new resting place at the 4th Street stub overlooking Flower Street but I've found no evidence she left any part of
it at 4th and Grand. I've always assumed it had to be split in half to make the move feasible, the house in one piece being too unwieldy. In fact, in images
dating from at least 1911 I find a wholly empty lot at NE 4th and Grand across which we can get a clear view of the Brunson. Certainly by this time Almira
Hershey had been living up in the Hollywood Hotel for several years.


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/...89fc3b9a_o.jpgHershey residence, 4th Street and Grand Avenue, 1893

Exterior view of Almira Parker Hershey's two-story Victorian Gothic style home located on the northeast corner of 4th Street and S. Grand Avenue on
Bunker Hill. Built at a cost of around $50,000 and designed by architects Curlett & Eisen, the Heshey Mansion was completed in 1888. In 1906, Almira
Hershey had this home moved to 750 W. Fourth Street and commissioned architects C.F. Skilling and Otto H. Neher to split it in half to turn it into an
apartment building. After the apartment building opened in 1907, it was named the Castle Towers, reminiscent of the structure's "castle-like features."
The Castle Towers Apartments sat on the stub end of 4th Street, on the south side, overlooking Flower Street, wedged behind the Barbara Worth ne
Briggs Apartments. At 750 W. 4th this put them across the street from Margrethe Mather's studio in the Hildreth carriage house at 715.

Thanks for clarifying (thanks to HossC as well). I've had the Hershey house pictured completely wrong in my mind this whole time - I always thought it was at the NW corner for some reason (don't know why when you can clearly see the Rose house to the right, and therefore SE corner, in the 1893 pic). Part of the confusion is in the house that did stand at the NW corner. It was in a similar sort of Moorish-Art Nouveau-Richardsonian Romanesque style and, judging by its appearance, could conceivably have been a later remodel of the Hershey house (sort of). I'm talking about this house:

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/...ps314df88a.jpgLAPL

So, I've now realized that I know nothing about the house at the NW corner of 4th & Grand. Can anyone fill me in?

ethereal_reality Sep 6, 2014 12:22 AM

Here's an amazing photograph from 1957 showing the corner of 6th and Spring Street.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/674/kDf32Y.jpg
HDL

The Hayward Hotel (which we've visited often on NLA) is on the right. The building shrouded in scaffolding is the Grosse Building.
(but I don't think it's being renovated....I believe it's in the process of being demolished by the Cleveland Wrecking Co.)


Here is the Grosse Buidling back in 1908 when it was the proud home to the Southern Pacific Railroad Company.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/3T6n0D.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=3036

I like the design of that small building to the right of the Grosse Bldg. Does anyone know what it is? (the roof-line resembles mission architecture)
-as gsjansen mentioned earlier...many of us don't have access to LAPL's Sanborn maps for lack of a library card. :(

__

HossC Sep 6, 2014 1:39 AM

:previous:

Zooming in, all I can read is Golden State Realty. I keep an eye out for other pictures.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...tateRealty.jpg
USC Digital Library

This picture of the Grosse Building was taken on 7/15/57. A shot from the opposite direction shows an auto park where the Golden State Realty once stood. HDL also has a few pictures of the Grosse building being wrecked (including the one with the Yellow Cab Co cab posted by e_r). They're dated just a couple of months after the picture below.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...seBuilding.jpg
Huntington Digital Library

Some of the HDL descriptions say the Grosse Building was formerly known as the Abbot Kinney Building. I assume that's the same Abbot Kinney who developed Venice and built the canals.

FredH Sep 6, 2014 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6717935)
We share a particular interest in the 4th Street stub. Well, here it is (sort of). I think I've posted this before.


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/...b8b07f37_o.jpgLooking west on 4th Street from 4th Street barricade at Hope Street, 1937

Looking west down 4th Street from the 4th Street stub at Hope Street. The steep slope between Hope and Flower prevented 4th Street from going through. We are looking across Flower Street (out-of-frame at the bottom) to Figueroa (with the truck in the intersection) and to Fremont with the white Hotel Percivel at 1017 W. 4th Street. Down here, the little 'street' that runs to the right from 4th is the ever elusive Sack Alley which only runs from 4th Street to 3rd Street. The five story building which backs up to Sack Alley is the Imperial Apartments at 350 S. Figueroa. Frustratingly close to my most hoped for image. If the camera were to simply pan right 90 degrees, we would be looking directly at the Hlidreth carriage house at 715 W. 4th Street, the studio of Margrethe Mather. And in 1937, she might very well have been there on the day this shot was taken. It pleases me deeply to think she enjoyed this exact view, occasionally must have stood right here and looked down on Sack Alley. Similarly, if we were to look the other way, 90 degrees to the left, we would be looking at the Castle Tower Apartments, the repurposed Hershey Mansion.

USC digital archive/Automobile Club of Southern California collection, 1892-1963



Hey, thanks MichaelRyerson! The 4th Street stub...and a bonus Sack Alley. I never seem to be able to find this stuff on my own unless I trip over it accidentally.


And congratulations Ninja55 on your nice purchase of the Lucca brochure. This goes along with my theory that historical objects should belong to the person who will treasure them the most.

FredH Sep 6, 2014 2:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6718362)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/...5feb84df_o.jpgLooking northeast from 5th Street and Figueroa, 1916

Nice, clear shot of the Castle Tower Apartments snuggled in behind the Briggs with the Hildreth Mansion peeking over the rooftops. In 1916 the slope below the Castle Tower is still intact with a staircase leading up to the 4th Street stub at Hope Street. This slope will be graded away for Flower Street parking and the staircase will be lost. But here it is still in use. It is possible to see just the barest corner of the Hildreth carriage house showing off the left edge of the Castle Tower (in sharp silhouette against the Glen Arm Apartments). But there is one particularly interesting thing in this image. Two properties north of the Hildreth is a little white blockish unnamed apartment building at 345 S. Hope Street. The Stuart K. Oliver house will be built on the lot between the Hildreth and this little apartment building. Moving north we can see that the Glen Arms Apartments are in place at 333 S. Hope Street and then the rather large, squarish Sawyer Apartments with the flat overhanging cornice at 327 S. Hope Street. And that is pretty much all of the cluster of houses and buildings in the immediate area north of the Hildreth on Hope for now we find a wide expanse of open ground before we come to the Rowan Apartments with the slab side and the large painted sign near the roofline. The address here is 122 S. Hope so we're looking across over two full blocks magically compressed by the camera lens. Next to the Rowan, in the shadows, is the smaller Bunker Hill Hotel (116 S. Hope and brand-spanking new in 1916) and just to the left of the Rowan and the Bunker Hill we can see the back of the Majestic Apartments at 702 W. 1st Street. But here's the interesting part (at least to me) look at the Hope Street roadbed above the retaining wall. Do you see it? It hasn't been graded yet! In fact, it is literally two wagon tracks cut into the hill side, no grading, no pavement, just a dirt track!And it appears the same goes for 2nd Street where it comes down and runs across Hope Street and, below the retaining wall, the Hope Street incline (which is graded and paved) where it runs down to the 3rd Street tunnel. Sorry for my enthusiasm but that's the neatest image of an unimproved Hope Street you're gonna find. There are lots of my favorite buildings in this shot but that little stretch of a rural Hope Street is the best part.

USC digital archive/California Historical Society Collection, 1860-1960



Great photo HossC and great details MichaelRyerson!

Here's a similar shot years later as the area was being plundered. I see a couple survivors.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...psca3d9ccb.jpg
Earl Witscher, Modernage Photo Service

rick m Sep 6, 2014 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 6718778)
Mr. Ryerson....while you sober up, and I Sober down, you might want to try the WPA household census cards and employee records at USC digital libraries....

I have tried in the past to wade my way through this onslaught of information..........eventually throwing up my hands at the enormity of the records, without being a Los Angeles resident with a free access library card to the library's sanborne maps, I gave up.

But I will have the next drink in your honor...go man go! :cheers:

Okay-- 355 So.Grand in 1939 was the Amacker Hotel- later to be apts--also shows address of 607 W. 4th St--Hershey did build this---Little shot house at corner of S.Hope and 4th (401 S.Hope) was the G. Williams home originally-The WPA block drawing gives mere hints of it's front--and aerial images hardly pick it up ever...

HossC Sep 6, 2014 11:30 AM

:previous:

I found listings for 355 South Grand in most of the CDs between 1911 and 1942. The building also seems to have housed various beauty shops from 1926 onwards. Maybe this info will help anyone who fancies taking on the census cards :).


1911: Beatrice Keough, furnished rooms

1915: Beatrice Keough, furnished rooms

1917 Beatrice Keough listed as resident, but not in the furnished rooms section

1918: No listings found

1921: No listings found (Maurice R Walton is listed with apartments at 402 Crocker)

1923: Maurice R Walton, furnished rooms

1926: John D Danton, furnished rooms/Matthaeus (also spelled Matthews) Seeger, beauty parlor/Frances R Parrish, milliner

1927: J D Danton, furnished rooms/Matthew Seeger, beauty parlor

1929: Danton Apartments (John D Danton)/Claire Wacke, beauty shop

1932: John Danton, apartments/Polonia Apartments/Martha Anderson, beauty shop

1936: Ellen Amaker, furnished rooms

1938: Ellen Amacker listed as resident, but not in the furnished rooms section

1939: Amacker Hotel, furnished rooms/Roma Anderson, beauty shop

1942: Amacker Hotel, furnished rooms/Roma Anderson, beauty shop


For some reason, Ellen Amaker's name acquired a "c" between 1936 and 1938. I had a closer look, and found the following listings in the 1936 CD:

Amaker Ellen furn rms 355 S Grand av
Amackher Thos auto park 210 N Los Angeles r354 S Grand av


By the 1939 CD this has changed to:

Amacker Hotel 355 S Grand av
Amacker Thos H (Ellen) auto park 515 W 4th h355 S Grand av


So did Thomas H Amackher marry Ellen Amaker and meet in the middle with their similar surnames? It certainly looks like Thomas moved across South Grand from 354 to 355.

rick m Sep 6, 2014 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 6719337)
:previous:

I found listings for 355 South Grand in most of the CDs between 1911 and 1942. The building also seems to have housed various beauty shops from 1926 onwards. Maybe this info will help anyone who fancies taking on the census cards :).


1911: Beatrice Keough, furnished rooms

1915: Beatrice Keough, furnished rooms

1917 Beatrice Keough listed as resident, but not in the furnished rooms section

1918: No listings found

1921: No listings found (Maurice R Walton is listed with apartments at 402 Crocker)

1923: Maurice R Walton, furnished rooms

1926: John D Danton, furnished rooms/Matthaeus (also spelled Matthews) Seeger, beauty parlor/Frances R Parrish, milliner

1927: J D Danton, furnished rooms/Matthew Seeger, beauty parlor

1929: Danton Apartments (John D Danton)/Claire Wacke, beauty shop

1932: John Danton, apartments/Polonia Apartments/Martha Anderson, beauty shop

1936: Ellen Amaker, furnished rooms

1938: Ellen Amacker listed as resident, but not in the furnished rooms section

1939: Amacker Hotel, furnished rooms/Roma Anderson, beauty shop

1942: Amacker Hotel, furnished rooms/Roma Anderson, beauty shop


For some reason, Ellen Amaker's name acquired a "c" between 1936 and 1938. I had a closer look, and found the following listings in the 1936 CD:

Amaker Ellen furn rms 355 S Grand av
Amackher Thos auto park 210 N Los Angeles r354 S Grand av


By the 1939 CD this has changed to:

Amacker Hotel 355 S Grand av
Amacker Thos H (Ellen) auto park 515 W 4th h355 S Grand av


So did Thomas H Amackher marry Ellen Amaker and meet in the middle with their similar surnames? It certainly looks like Thomas moved across South Grand from 354 to 355.

Fantastic trove here-- Digging into my file later I uncover the earliest factoids: Ms. Hershey purchased 355 S.Grand from a Ms. Grey and in 1907 this became the Hershey Apts briefly- a bit of detail is in LAPL image with title Hershey Apartments but incorrectly stating that this was the structure that was halved and moved to become Castle Towers. Must advise Christina Rice--- Almira built THAT mansion @ n/e corner 4th & Grand but it sure didn't stay in place for more than a decade..

MichaelRyerson Sep 6, 2014 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 6719355)
Fantastic trove here-- Digging into my file later I uncover the earliest factoids: Ms. Hershey purchased 355 S.Grand from a Ms. Grey and in 1907 this became the Hershey Apts briefly- a bit of detail is in LAPL image with title Hershey Apartments but incorrectly stating that this was the structure that was halved and moved to become Castle Towers. Must advise Christina Rice--- Almira built THAT mansion @ n/e corner 4th & Grand but it sure didn't stay in place for more than a decade..

In some histories of the Hollywood Hotel it says Almira had plans to build a hotel at 4th and Grand on the now vacant lot but that, except for some foundation work which was completed, she never followed through with the hotel. But she apparently did have an apartment building (if not a hotel) on the NW corner albeit briefly. Also Rick, if you're going to be talking to Ms. Rice could you ask her to look at her messages through onbunkerhill? I've asked some things about her Castle Towers postcard.

so-cal-bear Sep 6, 2014 8:10 PM

I just heard about this story on the Local NPR station while driving on a Saturday afternoon in Los Angeles. I got home and looked it up.

Some photos here,

http://www.scpr.org/programs/offramp...toric/?slide=1

And even more photos here.

http://lacityhistory.pastperfect-onl...exe?request=ks

EDIT: I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THESE PHOTOS HAD NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED BEFORE ANYWHERE ELSE BUT INTERNAL CITY RECORDS.

MichaelRyerson Sep 6, 2014 8:19 PM

Great catch. I like this one.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by so-cal-bear (Post 6719652)
I just heard about this story on the Local NPR station while driving on a Saturday afternoon in Los Angeles. I got home and looked it up.

Some photos here,

http://www.scpr.org/programs/offramp...toric/?slide=1

And even more photos here.

http://lacityhistory.pastperfect-onl...exe?request=ks

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/...29a7a0b3_o.jpgHotel Liberty, 125 Figueroa Street, 1935

Thanks to Hoss we now know the address (which made no sense in the pic) is 133 S. Figueroa.

Los Angeles City Archives,
Photographer: Los Angeles City Engineering Staff 12/18/1935

ethereal_reality Sep 6, 2014 8:30 PM

:previous: me too. post more. -so we can discuss.:)

I just noticed the Hotel Liberty's facade is shielding a house. (I don't even think it's an addition, it's simply a faux-front to make the house appear like a hotel)

__

ethereal_reality Sep 6, 2014 8:40 PM

The La Leyenda, built in 1926, has only been mentioned once on NLA, and as far as I can tell no photographs have been posted. (I could be wrong of course)


The La Leyenda at 1737 Whitley Avenue (just north of Hollywood Blvd.)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/P6hR46.jpg
old cd file




-front entrance with bell-boy/doorman.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/674/0nYFEZ.jpg
old cd file



La Leyenda lobby.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/aBDtvg.jpg
old cd file



-as it appears today.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...674/8IOLQx.jpg
GSV



http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...540/ldNwBk.jpg
justabovesunset.com

I like the wrought-iron spirals on the fire escape.

__

HossC Sep 6, 2014 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6718980)

Here is the Grosse Buidling back in 1908 when it was the proud home to the Southern Pacific Railroad Company.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/3T6n0D.jpg
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=3036

I like the design of that small building to the right of the Grosse Bldg. Does anyone know what it is? (the roof-line resembles a mission church)

Whatever the building on the right was, it didn't stay neighbors with the Grosse building for very long. Various sources, including emporis.com, say that the Grosse building was built in 1906, while the 1909 birdseye view of Los Angeles on bigmapblog.com already shows the Western Union Telegraph building in the picture below. USC date this photograph at circa 1915. It looks like there's another of those LA Times advertising boards with the iluminated top outside the Puritan Cafeteria on the left.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2.jpg~original
USC Digital Library

Here's a better view of the Western Union building in 1939. The extant Stock Exchange Building on the right opened in 1931.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...3.jpg~original
Left side of picture in USC Digital Library

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the site to the right of the Grosse building was a parking by the time the Grosse building was demolished in 1957/58. The picture below is dated 7/15/57.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...4.jpg~original
Huntington Digital Library

This is today's view down 6th Street looking across Spring. On the left, the blade sign of the Hotel Hayward can just be seen above the trees. On the right is what's left of the Grosse Building's replacement. In 1960 it was the Claud Beelman designed United California Bank (see post #13001 for MichaelRyerson's amazing interior pictures). It's now the SB Tower, controversially modified and painted in 2009. You can read more about that on la.curbed.com (link originally posted by tovangar2).

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...5.jpg~original
GSV

ethereal_reality Sep 6, 2014 9:26 PM

:previous: good research. -thanks for trying to find more info/photos of that little building.



-before we leave the La Leyenda:

One thing that I immediately liked about the La Leyenda was the slanted architectural features* that buttress/frame the top floor windows.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/o1sAAt.jpg
old cd file.


From this angle, you can see they're missing from the building.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...904/VVAbTK.jpg
GSV

*after looking at the vintage photo again, I'm not sure the slanted elements are architectural...could they have been rolled up curtains...or awnings?

___



This building is across from the La Leyenda. I couldn't help but notice the old vintage sign.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...538/0zPA0Y.jpg
GSV



-here it is up close / it appears to says Re-Tan Hotel. -anyone heard of it?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...746/MDcrkS.jpg
GSV/detail

__

HossC Sep 6, 2014 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6719654)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/...29a7a0b3_o.jpgHotel Liberty, 125 Figueroa Street, 1935

Los Angeles City Archives,
Photographer: Los Angeles City Engineering Staff 12/18/1935

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6719667)

I just noticed the Hotel Liberty's facade is shielding a house. (I don't even think it's an addition, it's simply a faux-front to make the house appear like a hotel)

I think that's just an optical illusion, although the original house may have been tripled in size by an extension at the front. Having said that, the façade might have looked more impressive than the rest of the building. The aerial below is from my post about the Hotel Clift at Second and Figueroa. It was taken a year after the picture above.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...otelClift3.jpg
USC Digital Library

The Liberty is midway down the left hand side. Here's a close-up.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...telLiberty.jpg
Detail of picture above.

Here's the annotated version of the aerial above. As you can see, the address I got for the Hotel Liberty was 133 S Figueroa (from the 1938 CD). In my Clift Hotel post I also noted that Liberty was formally known as the Lue Apartments (1917-26 CDs).

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...otelClift5.jpg

HossC Sep 6, 2014 10:00 PM

4710 South Vermont Avenue from the newly published pictures at the Los Angeles City Historical Society. The description says:

City engineering photo of high water marks at 4710 South Vermont Avenue to demonstrate need for new ”Slauson” storm drain. Signs on Great Western Realty Office display large signs ”Sign here to protest Slauson Drain Section.” Smith and Sons Electrical Wiring Office at corner. Several hundred property owners in 1927 protesting an assessment district for construction of storm drain. Business men in front of building.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...thVermont1.jpg
Los Angeles City Historical Society

4710 South Vermont Avenue today.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...thVermont2.jpg
GSV

CityBoyDoug Sep 7, 2014 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6719703)
:previous: good research. -thanks for trying to find more info/photos of that little building.



-before we leave the La Leyenda:

One thing that I immediately liked about the La Leyenda was the slanted architectural features* that buttress/frame the top floor windows.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/o1sAAt.jpg
old cd file.


From this angle, you can see they're missing from the building.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...904/VVAbTK.jpg
GSV

*after looking at the vintage photo again, I'm not sure the slanted elements are architectural...could they have been rolled up curtains...or awnings?

___
__

I tend to think those slanted things on the top wondows are canvas curtains of some type. I can imagine that the sun could be very severe up there in the mornings. :cool::cool::cool:


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