Boooo is right. Come on! :(

Ugh. What a bait and switch. Yet another example of how the private sector has lost all sense of civic duty.

From Trib Article: "Van Schaack [a Senior MD at Hines] declined to comment on Salesforce. Hines has zoning to build as high as 950 feet, but he said the planned 1.3 million-square-foot office tower is likely to be about 800 feet — or about 60 stories — tall. Previous reports of the Wolf Point office building potentially including a large exterior video board were incorrect, Van Schaack said."

Re: height only, not encouraging for 800+ ft coming from a Senior MD. Maybe that's roof height and not including some form of spire/other enhancement....C'mon Hines!!!

http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/imag...erscrossed.gif

^What he hell is that about?...this building was supposed to be the crowning jewel of the three...the Kennedy family wanted something special built for the city and this was going to be the exclamation point...i get annoyed how Chicago can fudge up prime sites with underwhelming results (architecturally speaking) .. we play it way to safe in this city recently.. .:(

With a developer as massive as Hines it's surprising they don't go the course of sign the anchor tenant, build a gem (950'+), market the rest of the tower until it fills.

They must not have a lot of faith in our office market.

Right, 800 feet won't be that much higher than the current U/C tower to the east. The height is definitely a bummer but hopefully that's not including some sort of mechanical structure. We'll see. I think 850-ish would still be a nice addition to the area especially.

On the bright side the LSE tower is now 950+. I guess they sort of switched places. :shrug:

I guess not, if that's the case I'm not really surprised they downsized.

I don't know about that.

The chicago market simply doesn't appear to support offIce towers over 800' tall. For whatever reason, taller office towers don't seem to pencil out in this town. Chicago hasn't built an office tower over 800' in nearly 30 years.

It seems to be a rather hard ceiling these days, which is a damn shame because this spectacular site deserves a skyline standout. At 800' it will mostly be lost in the crowd. Way to aim low, hines.

I thought it was originally supposed to be mixed use though, which would be easier to fill than an office tower.

you get a 500k plus lease and you only have 60 stories and 800 ft?...this building must of been massively redesigned then since those floor to ceiling heights are nothing incredible for an office building...this building was fairly thin in the original design compared to the larger floor plates of other Chicago office buildings like 110 north wacker being built... which originally made me think this would be easily in the 900ft range even at 60 stories...similar to two prudential plaza... :shrug:

And I guess it's no longer mixed use? I thought there were condos and hotel too?
Maybe nixed by Reilly over "traffic" concerns....

Assuming its less expensive to build in Chicago than San Francisco, let's hypothetically hope SF has a clause to allow for further expansion assuming Chicago (based on their history here) is a place they'll continue expanding. Which could potentially help push the height upward?

I don't know..I'm grasping at straws here...800' is definitely crappy news

Eh I don’t buy the argument that the chicago office market can’t support 900+ footers. We’ve seen three 700+ footers in the last few years, and now a fourth. Surely one of those proposals could have snatched another tower’s anchor. Demand might be part of the problem, but just as troubling is the lack of long term investment on the part of the suppliers. The obsession with short term gain is pathological, as is the exaggerated risk aversion, with the result being extremely banal developments. I specifically remember the WP team saying “We’re in this for the long haul”. What a load of crap.

Welp... I guess the only solace is that this report is super early, and way before this tower will be breaking ground, so there is still a good chance this changes. If it is only 800 feet, I'll never vote Kennedy again :haha:

It's kinda funny and sad that the same week Site I (LSE) grew to 950 ft, WPS shrunk to ~800 ft

Perhaps they meant the office tower would be 800 ft, with the hotel/condo(?) portion towering above it. No one familiar with the matter has said it is no longer being marketed as mixed use...

After yesterday's comments, this is highly unlikely, but I'm an optimist!

If this is true the wording in the article would be strange and misleading.

Instead of saying "the office tower will be about 800 feet tall/60 stories", they likely would have said that the office portion would have taken up 60 stories of the building without giving a height estimate at all, since only the final building height really matters.

But yea, I always thought this was supposed to be mixed use?

Yeah I wouldn't put too much stock in the words of one person involved as quoted by the media. Most reporters know jack shit about construction and development and messing up things like height figures is a pasttime for them.

My biggest bit of evidence that they won't downsize it like that is simply that I don't know how they could possibly fit the remaining FAR they have available on only 60 floors while still staying within the guaranteed sight lines for Apparel Mart. It's not very often you see a developer leave buildable space on the table like that so I don't think they are going to sheer 10 or 15 floors off of this thing just to slightly increase efficiency when those floors are already approved.

Eh, I don't know. The guy they quoted, Greg Van Schaack, is the number two person on the midwest website so I doubt he'd be spouting off random numbers. It's shaping up to be a classic bait and switch. In retrospect, the downsizing of the east tower all makes sense now. It didn't at the time bc the rental market was so bullish. But if they're really giving us a measly 800 footer on the south lot, they couldn't have the east tower be nearly as tall.

Total BullShit!

Greg Hinz updated his piece a few hours ago...

"Update—A source close to the matter says that the video wall will not be a problem and says it now would be located inside and therefore not subject to the ordinance. If so, this deal appears well on the way to being done."

Ditch the video wall, increase the height of the building!

My theory would be they planned WPS with the expectation it wouldnt go until next cycle. Now they have a tenant in hand quickly and need to move up the construction schedule. They may not have as much faith about introducing more residential product right on the back of the 600+ units they are putting in at WPE.

They could also be concerned with the office market considering most existing companies are consolidating (less space per person). And they would be coming on the back of The Post Office and 110 along with competing head to head with Union Station probably along with that Dearborn one. Not to mention any success Lincoln Yards or 78 have.

A bunch of anchors potentially triggering Class A office construction is great, but its not totally clear they'll be able to lease out the rest at a reasonable pace.

The expected height reduction is certainly disappointing....especially in light of how they touted that it would be an architecturally significant masterpiece or something to that effect. A twenty story high-end hotel at the top would have been a great addition.

You're being really generous here. They promised the public that they're in this for the long haul and there was an explicit understanding that this was a marquee location that generated massive public interest, one that deserved a marquee tower. They should be held to that promise, step up, and aggressively go after more tenants. Instead, they're not even trying. They're gonna sign one big tenant and treat this just like any other piece of real estate. They could go after a hotel; they could add a residential component; they could woo more office tenants. Not even trying.

Pretty disappointing.

Original Plan
West tower | 493ft| Residential, parking
East tower | 750ft | Office, Hotel, Residential, parking
South tower | 950ft | Office, Hotel, parking

Current
West tower | 493ft| Residential, parking
East tower | 679ft | Residential, parking
South tower | 800ft | Office, parking

I agree, although luckily a couple of other Chicago projects have gotten minor height bumps.

800 feet hopefully isn't exact, if it were significantly taller than the East Tower (850+ ?), I think it will still look good.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Hines is also the developer of San Fransisco's SF tower that rises 1,070'?

I think Suiram's explanation makes the most sense at this point.

If the design is good, once finished, I don’t thing a single person in the world will stand at the confluence of the Chicago River and feel disappointed.

I don’t understand why they don’t do some super-luxury condos at the very top of this thing.

I mean, with the lowest floor being 800 ft, and if you do full floor units, you could probably charge at least $3-4 million a pop. Probably more, especially given the sheer volume of ultra-luxury sales we’ve seen of late.

The Dow is on fire, this tower will have some of the best possible views—EVER in the city. I mean, being at the confluence is nothing short of epic.

We’re number 7 on the planet for number of ultra-wealthy, so don’t be going all Crawford on me and telling me the money’s not there in the Chicagoland market. And don’t forget about all those rich and bored Wisconsinites, Michiganders, and yes, even coastal and international people who want a pied a terre.

Hines is leaving money on the table not building up to 950’. I could sell condos here in my sleep

You may be right, but net absorption of office space in the CBD has been very strong for a few years now and we seem to keep hearing of new companies opening up downtown.

Presumably adding in a second, non-office use complicates the design quite a bit (residential entrance, separate elevators, amenities, parking) in what's already a slender floorplate. That said, yeah from a top floor penthouse the whole city would feel like your personal kingdom. Maybe that's enough $$$ to make the mixed use pencil out.

Failing that, let's hope for some kind of public or semi-public event space on the upper floors, not just some corner offices and conference rooms.

Absolutely spot on.

^+1 they're just phoning it in if they stop at 800 and it's disappointing af

Nobody really knows what Hines is thinking now... This building must have gone through significant design changes as well... so we just need to get much more information as it comes out... wasn't this designed by peli?... I mean 60 story pure office still should get to the 900ft range...christ NYC has buildings like 1200ft at 70 stories in hudson yards...im hoping there was some misquoting or bad reporting on the tribune article and nothing has changed.

Block 37 version 2.0?

I was hoping for a hotel component to enable some degree of elevated "public access" at this important location. Disappointing.

With high profile buildings don't hotel portions usually occupy the lower floors as the higher office floors are far too valuable?

Yes, he was was probably referring to a hotel restaurant like 401 N Wabash.

Makes sense. My bad VKChaz. A restaurant/rooftop deck similar to virgin rooftop would be incredible.

A sign on the proposed Salesforce tower? So what? Let’s worry about important things

Kamin article hopefully the developer feels some pressure to up there game for this site.. we shall see...

"In case you haven’t been following this saga, Salesforce is said to be considering a lease of 500,000 square feet or more in the proposed third and final tower in the Wolf Point development along the river. The company’s wish list includes a sign atop the building, which would be a glassy version of 30 Rockefeller Plaza, the art moderne centerpiece (and masterpiece) of New York’s Rockefeller Center"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...23-story.html#

Well, if they’re only going up to 800 ft (yeah we’re spoiled here in Chicago—in any other city not named New York this would be a huge deal) then we should push hard for some other concessions, I think

I thought the same thing. 800 feet isn't that tiny, especially right there on the river. By Chicago standards it's not really that high but definitely a nice addition.

But yea I hope it's redesigned and looks really nice. That would help the upset over the height reduction.

^...Lets stop trying to rationalize this like we always tend to do after a height reduction...800ft for this specific building at this particular site is an absolute letdown and totally mislead from all the literature and intent the developer has released up to this point for the last few years

I agree it's disappointing but at the end of the day there's nothing we can do. May as well be happy to see another 800 footer in Chicago. Especially along the river where it'll have more of an impact/look good.

Consider yourself lucky you live in a city where 800 foot buildings are barely noticeable on the skyline ;)

- Marc Benioff (CEO of Salesforce) talking about the SF tower on twitter. (source)

Some hope for a public-accessible top floor in WPS!

Why would this engender hope for a public accessible top floor here? 800 foot towers don't have observation decks.

^Not in Chicago at the very least. But it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have an observation deck at that height. I prefer the Signature Room over Skydeck for a lot of reasons obviously but a major reason is that being 300 feet lower makes it feel like you are inthe city as opposed to above the city. It would be a perfect location too.

Yep, sometimes I prefer those views of the city where you are like 500 feet up(i.e. typical office building views) but can see all the layers and the streets below at the same time. Something magical and forest-like about it. As opposed to the Sears Tower view, which is no doubt awe inspiring, but it removes you from that magical element that makes a city a city.

Right, but we’re skyscraper nerds. The average tourist is not going
to choose 800 feet over 1400 or 1200 and the developers seem pretty intent on doing nothing noteworthy.

Observation deck, no. Rooftop bar and restaurant, yes.