SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//index.php)
-   General Development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   CHICAGO | City Casino (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=239761)

Bombardier Jul 18, 2019 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 8635114)
Chicago needs a glamorous casino that can synergize with existing entertainment and dining downtown.

Agree, it would be cool to have it right downtown like they do in Europe and South America. They should put it in the long vacant retail space at the base of Trump Tower. Now that would be fun!

k1052 Jul 18, 2019 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8635025)
Ald. King (4th) has said she doesn't want it at the Michael Reese site, and Ald. Dowell (3rd) has said she doesn't want it at State & Pershing.

You don't put a casino where you need the jobs; you put it where there are suckers who can easily be fleeced. That means downtown.

Much as I want Thompson Center saved, I think it's too large and is really bad optics (nearly bankrupt state desperately converts office building to casino). The about-to-be-vacant Medinah Temple would be an interesting possibility.

I'm with you on a downtown site however I really doubt that is of much interest to Friedman for the Medinah.

Busy Bee Jul 18, 2019 1:36 PM

I haven't really been following this casino business, but I'm curious if someone could steer me to the data that shows convention goers spending a bunch of time and money burning through money at slot machines and craps tables.

moorhosj Jul 18, 2019 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8635446)
I haven't really been following this casino business, but I'm curious if someone could steer me to the data that shows convention goers spending a bunch of time and money burning through money at slot machines and craps tables.

The biggest competitors for conventions are Orlando and Las Vegas. Orlando has warm weather and Disney. Vegas has warm weather and casinos. We aren't getting warm all-year-round weather or Disney any time soon, so casino it is.

jpIllInoIs Jul 18, 2019 4:26 PM

While a downtown Chicago Casino is high on everyone's lists. And I like the idea of a Lakeside Casino as an adaptive reuse for a great piece of architecture. We all assume it is the convention goers that will populate the downtown site.
Keep in mind that convention goers are on expense accounts. It is easy to expense fine dining and drinks as entertainment. Casino receipts will be under much more scrutiny and no company is going to reimburse casino loses.

It might be prudent to look at where Indiana Casinos get their clientele. After all it is the competition.

All Indiana casinos run shuttle buses to Illinois.

Ceasars Hammond Horseshoe runs 20 daily shuttle buses to Chinatown alone
Another 3 trips are from the northside starting at Belmont/Clark running south with several stops finally picking up at Hyatt McCormick. So that is only 3 shuttles on a 8 stop route that include McMK.
4 shuttles are dedicated to Argyle/Broadway.
5 shuttles dedicated to Diversey
5 shuttles depart McCormick/Devon in west RP
6 shuttles depart Harlem/Foster
5 shuttles from Bridgeview-Harlem
4 shuttles from Harlme/25th in North Riverside.
Hammond Horshoe runs about 52 shuttles daily to Chicagoland, 20 of those to Chinatown. they run ZERO shuttles to any Indiana location.

Ameristar East Chicago
Runs HOURLY from 2734 Archer & Wentworth Chinatown 8 am- 12 am (16 total).
And then 6 daily trips from 13th and Wabash total 22 trips from Chicago. They have no other scheduled shuttles.

Majestic Star in Gary runs 17 daily shuttles from Chinatown(2734 S. Wentworth) last pickup at 3:30am. They do not run any other shuttle.

That is 91 daily shuttles from Chicagoland to Indiana casinos. That is future Chicago Casino base customer. That is who Chicago needs to target, because the are here and they are gambling already. Just capturing 70% of the outflow would be a win and then add the convention goers spending.

Baronvonellis Jul 18, 2019 4:59 PM

So if about half of the shuttle buses are coming for Chinatown, wouldn't the south loop, McCormick Place or Michael Reese area be the perfect location for a casino blocks from Chinatown? Plus scooping up the conventioneers?

ardecila Jul 18, 2019 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 8635114)
I really like how New Orleans has a casino downtown. It's easily walkable by tourists, and I wasn't planning on going there to gamble but when I saw it nearby I thought why not.

That's why it needs to be downtown or in the south loop at least. It's a huge mistake to locate it where the jobs are needed, the workers can easily take the red line to the casino from the southside.

It would be perfect for the Motor Row entertainment district! Or next to the Sox stadium as was mentioned.

Chicago needs a glamorous casino that can synergize with existing entertainment and dining downtown.

File under "things NOT to do at the Chicago casino".

Harrah's New Orleans replaced the architecturally significant Rivergate convention center with a piece of horrid zonked-out Postmodernism. Most of the walls are blank, so it creates giant voids at the foot of Canal St AND Poydras St where there should be street life. The parking garages replaced even older, more historic buildings and even though they tried to create an urban streetscape around the garages it's more of a sick joke. It would be like if they tore down the Thompson Center, put in a huge blank-walled box with a bunch of drive-thrus and porte cocheres, and then demolished the adjacent block for good measure.

I will agree that Harrah's does capture pedestrian traffic between CBD/Warehouse District hotels and the French Quarter, and the promise of free, clean restrooms lures many people in to gamble.

Unfortunately there's not much hope for a casino with good urban bones. The Chicago casino will need an experienced operator, and all of those are dead-set on a suburban or at least Vegas-like model. Look at Wynn's Encore in Boston.

Baronvonellis Jul 18, 2019 6:06 PM

Hmm, I thought the New Orleans casino is pretty attractive brick and traditional architecture personally. I'm not sure what was there before it. It looks pretty traditional and hasome from the front corner where you enter. The concrete chain hotels around it are alot uglier if you want to nitpick that area. The chain hotels around there don't provide much street life either.

Anyway I didn't say it has to recreate that casino, I said I liked that it was downtown and a walkable location.

Halsted & Villagio Jul 18, 2019 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 8635324)
Of the listed sites only Michael Reese is even close to being a decent location for the casino. No tourist is going to almost any of those neighborhoods. And the idea that jobs have to be in a neighborhood to help lower income people (or any potential employee) is simply not true. There aren't good jobs in my neighborhood and most everyone is doing fine.

Lightfoot has been a pretty big disappointment to me so far.

No disrespect intended by I highly doubt your neighborhood is anything like the neighborhoods being proposed for the casino. And yes, I am a witness to "location" having a great deal to do with getting a job.

My parents did very well for themselves (both college educated/one a Doctor) but I nonetheless grew up on the southside of Chicago... and loved it I might add. But I personally witnessed many who wanted to go for job interviews that did not have "car fare" as they called it, to ride the bus or train to get to those job interviews. It happens more than you could ever imagine.

As for LL and her job performance, give it time my friend... give it time. The machine that is Chicago will not be broken in a day, a week, or months... it will take years. As for her other agenda items, lets not jump to conclusions on those either. Give it time and LETS SEE HOW HER VISION UNFOLDS. If it works, lets vote for her again. If not, we vote her out. Pretty simple really. But she is so new to the position right now that we have barely even taken the wrapping off of her. Its unfair to pass blanket judgments upon her at this point within the process - its much too early.
.

ardecila Jul 18, 2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio (Post 8635891)
But I personally witnessed many who wanted to go for job interviews that did not have "car fare" as they called it, to ride the bus or train to get to those job interviews. It happens more than you could ever imagine.
.

Putting the casino on the South or West Side won't solve that problem.. if you can't afford CTA fare and live in North Lawndale, how does a casino in Pullman or Bronzeville help you? Or vice versa?

For those that can scrape together $2.75, a downtown location offers the easiest accessibility for everyone, rich OR poor.

DCReid Jul 18, 2019 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8636030)
Putting the casino on the South or West Side won't solve that problem.. if you can't afford CTA fare and live in North Lawndale, how does a casino in Pullman or Bronzeville help you? Or vice versa?

For those that can scrape together $2.75, a downtown location offers the easiest accessibility for everyone, rich OR poor.

I don't think those areas in Chicago need a casino. I hope Chicago doesn't get a casino period. I think those areas need grocery stores and other small retail. I think Lori should try to get Aldi to open a few stores on the south and west sides, probably near the metro or major bus stops.

skysoar Jul 18, 2019 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCReid (Post 8636034)
I don't think those areas in Chicago need a casino. I hope Chicago doesn't get a casino period. I think those areas need grocery stores and other small retail. I think Lori should try to get Aldi to open a few stores on the south and west sides, probably near the metro or major bus stops.

I too have deep reservations about a Chicago casino. But if there is to be one, I believe the best place to have one would be in the 78 development area. One it would be close to Chinatown, the Dan Ryan, easy access to the river tourism boats, which gives you easy access to Navy Pier.

SIGSEGV Jul 19, 2019 6:02 PM


Chicago’s first casino still might end up downtown, says Lightfoot
2 comments


The five neighborhood sites shortlisted by the mayor do not represent the city’s definitive list

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/7/19...ds-bronzeville

---

Personally, I think a good location might be the Mercy Hospital parking lots.

tjp Jul 19, 2019 6:06 PM

Maybe they could put the Block 37 mall out of its misery and convert it to a casino.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8636698)

Chicago’s first casino still might end up downtown, says Lightfoot
2 comments


The five neighborhood sites shortlisted by the mayor do not represent the city’s definitive list

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/7/19...ds-bronzeville

---

Personally, I think a good location might be the Mercy Hospital parking lots.

“I’m not saying that a downtown site is off the board,” said Lightfoot after a Thursday press conference about the current heatwave. “There are some concerns, I think, with a downtown site, and we wanted to avoid that in this first instance,” the mayor explained.

When pressed about specific issues, the mayor said that her office heard concerns that a downtown location could ultimately detract from tourism. Some tour operators and convention organizers fear that attendees would go to the casino instead of participating in the convention itself, Lightfoot added."


lol, what?

SIGSEGV Jul 19, 2019 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjp (Post 8636703)
Maybe they could put the Block 37 mall out of its misery and convert it to a casino.

or the underground superstation at least!

brian_b Jul 20, 2019 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8635727)
It would be like if they tore down the Thompson Center, put in a huge blank-walled box with a bunch of drive-thrus and porte cocheres, and then demolished the adjacent block for good measure.

If the Thompson Center was a chosen site, it seems like it would fit pretty well with minimal work. The office portion of the building can all be converted to open floors containing casino stuff, and they could keep the two levels of retail and the food court below. The elevator banks could be the way to enter the casino section and they are so huge that only a handful of them are currently used.

The revenue could easily support the maintenance needs of the building for the very first time in its life.

Not that I would actually want the casino there, mind you. I would put it far from downtown and use transit/shuttles to get people there. Also, when considering the competition, keep in mind that Indiana allows smoking and Illinois does not. A casino near the Indiana border would keep the Illinoisians that don't like the smoke in the state and would also draw Hoosiers that hate smoke. I would embrace the breathable air aspect of the casino and make it prominent.

DePaul Bunyan Jul 21, 2019 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8635025)
Ald. King (4th) has said she doesn't want it at the Michael Reese site, and Ald. Dowell (3rd) has said she doesn't want it at State & Pershing.

You don't put a casino where you need the jobs; you put it where there are suckers who can easily be fleeced. That means downtown.

Much as I want Thompson Center saved, I think it's too large and is really bad optics (nearly bankrupt state desperately converts office building to casino). The about-to-be-vacant Medinah Temple would be an interesting possibility.

1: Why do you want Thompson Center saved?

2: Who gives a fuck about optics? If anything the alternative (keeping the Thompson Center open and losing out on tax revenue while supporting an albatross of a decrepit building) looks way worse - "nearly bankrupt state keeps outdated vanity project in prime development site."

Saving Thompson Center is at this point a pipe dream, even the "balanced" state budgets have included the presumed sale of the site for the last several years. It should have never been built in the first place and is a testament to Springfield's lavish arrogance and irresponsibility with the state's finances.

DePaul Bunyan Jul 21, 2019 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombardier (Post 8635367)
Agree, it would be cool to have it right downtown like they do in Europe and South America. They should put it in the long vacant retail space at the base of Trump Tower. Now that would be fun!

The same reasons that make Trump Tower a poor location for retail apply to a casino. Not enough foot traffic, not close enough to transit, and the area would not do well with the additional vehicular traffic. It's also way, way too small for a major casino. The typical Vegas strip casino is north of 125k SF of gaming, some have almost 200k SF.

BonoboZill4 Jul 21, 2019 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DePaul Bunyan (Post 8637837)
1: Why do you want Thompson Center saved?

2: Who gives a fuck about optics? If anything the alternative (keeping the Thompson Center open and losing out on tax revenue while supporting an albatross of a decrepit building) looks way worse - "nearly bankrupt state keeps outdated vanity project in prime development site."

Saving Thompson Center is at this point a pipe dream, even the "balanced" state budgets have included the presumed sale of the site for the last several years. It should have never been built in the first place and is a testament to Springfield's lavish arrogance and irresponsibility with the state's finances.

Haha, be careful. A lot of people love that eyesore. The atrium is wonderful, but at the end of the day, it is simply far too inefficient and historically irrelevant for the city to let take up a city block and not earn valuable tax dollars, both on its purchase/demolition and whatever is put there in its place. It may be the Loop's last chance at another true supertall.

I doubt we'll be shaking our heads at it being removed like we do some other lost treasures, such as the old Chicago Federal Building

BonoboZill4 Jul 21, 2019 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DePaul Bunyan (Post 8637840)
The same reasons that make Trump Tower a poor location for retail apply to a casino. Not enough foot traffic, not close enough to transit, and the area would not do well with the additional vehicular traffic. It's also way, way too small for a major casino. The typical Vegas strip casino is north of 125k SF of gaming, some have almost 200k SF.

Exactly. Those retail spaces are really skinny, so I doubt they'd be able to function for gambling purposes other than penny machines lol


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.