SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185034)

scalziand Nov 14, 2016 9:05 PM

How about being integrated into the Javits expansion if that ever happens. A combined facility should be very attractive.

NYguy Nov 14, 2016 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 7622247)
they really have to pin down an alternate site and make it attractive before going on about booting out msg. the city needs its big, flexible arena too.

The best thing going for MSG was to relocate into the backside of the Farley Building. They didn't like the idea that they couldn't put signage on the 8th Avenue side, which would have been
a terrible idea. They also don't want to move away from the convenient feed of numerous subway and commuter lines. The Farley would have been the closest and best choice.



http://m7.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...rleyGarden.jpg



http://m0.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...leyGarden2.jpg

NYguy Mar 28, 2017 4:27 PM

Worth another look..


Video Link

jsbrook Mar 28, 2017 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalziand (Post 7622499)
How about being integrated into the Javits expansion if that ever happens. A combined facility should be very attractive.

Or Hudson Yards?

NYguy May 23, 2017 8:55 PM

https://therealdeal.com/2017/05/23/c...on-task-force/

Cuomo taps Roth, LeFrak for Penn Station task force
Governor recommends booting Amtrak and having the state take over


https://s12.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...n-Station-.jpg


By Kathryn Brenzel
May 23, 2017


Quote:

Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday tapped Richard LeFrak, Steve Roth and others to serve on a task force dedicated to addressing myriad issues at Penn Station — including its management.

A key step to resolving issues at the busy station, according to the governor, is booting Amtrak. During an event at the City University of New York, Cuomo proposed shifting control of Penn Station to either the state, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey or a private “qualified operator.” In the first scenario, the state would use design-build authorization and work with the private sector to make repairs and operate the station. Whoever takes control of the station will also oversee the redevelopment of the James A. Farley Post Office and the Gateway tunnel project.

“The best way to do this, if you weren’t dealing with all these levels of bureaucracies, is to do it as one, unified project, one project manager and have the entire project work together,” Cuomo said.

Representatives for Amtrak didn’t immediately return calls seeking comment.

Roth and LeFrak, who are also on President Trump’s infrastructure council, have a lot at stake when it comes to Penn Station. Roth’s Vornado Realty Trust owns 9 million square feet of office and retail in the area and is also part of the team the governor tapped to transform the James A. Farley Post Office into a new train hall and shopping center. Meanwhile, LeFrak has spent decades developing parts of Jersey City across the Hudson River. At a panel last month, LeFrak noted that some members of the council have the president’s ear “from time to time.”

Zerton May 24, 2017 8:33 PM

Does the city have any land of remotely equal value that they could offer up in a trade? That might sound naive.

yankeesfan1000 May 24, 2017 9:48 PM

^ The MTA and Amtrak co-own, with I think the MTA owning the majority, Sunnyside Yards which is a 192 acre rail yard not far from Manhattan in Queens which has been floated as a sort of Hudson Yards on steroids. Amtrak has been fairly vocal about shedding some of its real estate holdings, like Sunnyside, to raise funds. It'd be interesting to see if an X% increase in ownership of Sunnyside could entice Amtrak to give up Penn.

I think the most important take away from that, is that the Port Authority shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Penn Station. They would undoubtedly figure out a way to make it worse.

chris08876 Jun 14, 2017 1:34 AM

MTA finally details its plan to deal with Penn Station repairs

Quote:

With six weeks of infrastructure repairs at Penn Station beginning in July, the “summer of hell” for commuters is quickly approaching. In response, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has finally announced its plan to deal with Amtrak’s plan to close some of the station’s 21 tracks for renovations. As Crain’s reported, the MTA will shift three nighttime trains to rush hour and add about 36 cars, while also offering transit alternatives like ferry and bus services. The shutdown will force the MTA to cancel or divert 15-weekday trains between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m., affecting nearly 9,600 LIRR morning commuters, set to begin July 10.

Track shutdowns will reduce rush-hour service by about 20 percent for the 88,000 daily LIRR users. The number of weekday trains departing Penn during the evening rush hour will decrease from 87 to just 70 trains. The three overnight trains which run from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. were canceled to create storage space for the added rush hour cars, but the MTA says this will only affect 90 riders. For riders with monthly commuter passes only, ferries from Glen Cove and Hunters Point will be available. Plus, 200 coach buses will be added to pick up riders from eight different locations along the Long Island Expressway on weekdays from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. and from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. While these alternatives won’t cost LIRR riders extra, the MTA will not reduce fares for travelers affected by the shutdown.

The MTA has also launched a public awareness campaign to keep riders informed about transit changes this summer. The agency plans on updating their website with information as well as handing out printouts with any changes. Because cancellations and delays during the evening LIRR rush are at the highest level in 10 years, the transit advocacy group, Reclaim New York, says it’s unimpressed with the MTA’s proposed solutions.

In a statement, Reclaim New York’s Executive Director, Brandon Muir, said: “Long Island commuters are stuck in hell on rails this summer, and the MTA’s brilliant idea is to spend more money telling them how hot it is. This plan amounts to a PR blitz to get commuters to avoid the railroad because it’s a mess the MTA has no plan to fix anytime soon—as if riders didn’t already know that.”

:haha: If you’re one of the many unlucky ones affected by Penn Station repairs, the MTA may ask your employer to let you stay home or work different hours, according to the Daily News. Their awareness campaign includes sending letters to employers asking them to be more flexible with their employee’s work schedule during the Amtrak’s track shutdown. If commuters change their hours of travel between July 10 and at least Sept. 1, congestion will decrease, according to the agency. :haha:
https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...onnections.png

https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...us-options.png
=========================
https://www.6sqft.com/mta-finally-de...ation-repairs/

yankeesfan1000 Jun 14, 2017 2:33 AM

In related news, Commuters Sue Over Poor Service On Long Island Rail Road. Can't blame em.

mrnyc Jun 14, 2017 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 7814198)
^ The MTA and Amtrak co-own, with I think the MTA owning the majority, Sunnyside Yards which is a 192 acre rail yard not far from Manhattan in Queens which has been floated as a sort of Hudson Yards on steroids. Amtrak has been fairly vocal about shedding some of its real estate holdings, like Sunnyside, to raise funds. It'd be interesting to see if an X% increase in ownership of Sunnyside could entice Amtrak to give up Penn.

I think the most important take away from that, is that the Port Authority shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Penn Station. They would undoubtedly figure out a way to make it worse.


unfortunately, mta only owns 30 of the approx 180 acres of sunnyside yards. a sliver along the nw side. the city owns the air rights over that. amtrak owns 140 acres and gm owns a small parcel of the rest.

https://www.nycedc.com/sites/default...ve-Summary.pdf

NYguy Jun 15, 2017 3:43 AM

I've been waiting since last fall for the west concourse to open...


https://www.instagram.com/p/BVUgw5OD...y=ryanharris73

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...NjM2NQ%3D%3D.2

NYguy Jun 15, 2017 5:22 PM

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/15/1580...se-post-office

Penn Station's West End Concourse finally opens to the public
It marks the first phase of the transformation of the James A. Farley Post Office building


BY TANAY WARERKAR
JUN 15, 2017


Quote:

Following a few delays, Penn Station’s West End Concourse has finally opened to the public, NY1 has learned. Part of the overall revamp of the much-reviled station, the West End Concourse connects the James A. Farley Post Office Building to Penn Station, underground.

Originally scheduled to open in the fall of 2016, the project was pushed back with an estimated spring 2017 completion due to tech-focused upgrades to the station, including the new digital information screens, and the ceiling-mounted LED displays.

Penn Station tracks run below both Madison Square Garden and the post office building, and the thought was that creating an additional entrance would ease congestion in the main station area.

As NY1 points out, this is the first time that passenger access has been extended under the post office building, and this also marks the completion of the first phase of what will eventually be the complete transformation of the post office building into the Moynihan Train Hall, replete with retail and office space.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dZGo...ce_2009.0.jpeg




https://www.instagram.com/p/BVXAs6ug...thepellareport

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...NDEzMQ%3D%3D.2

NYguy Jun 15, 2017 6:13 PM

https://www.6sqft.com/first-look-see...end-concourse/

FIRST LOOK: See inside Penn Station’s brand new West End Concourse

JUNE 15, 2017
BY DANA SCHULZ



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...17-6sqft-4.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...17-6sqft-5.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-21.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-22.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...17-6sqft-9.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...17-6sqft-3.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-31.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-11.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-32.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-12.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-10.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-14.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-18.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...7-6sqft-37.png



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...17-6sqft-4.jpg



http://aasarchitecture.com/2016/01/m...hall-by-som-10


http://aasarchitecture.com/wp-conten...-by-SOM-10.jpg

NYguy Jun 16, 2017 12:23 AM

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...t-penn-station

At Troubled Penn Station, a Glimpse of a Brighter Future
A long-delayed stairway that will improve access for rail commuters at Penn Station has opened.



https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/...urse_68859.jpg

June 15, 2017


Quote:

New York City's Penn Station, long denigrated as ugly, congested and confusing, has a flashy new addition that could provide a glimpse of its future.

Officials on Thursday opened a new, $300 million concourse across the street from the aging rail station that will give passengers easier access to 17 of the 21 train platforms used by Long Island Rail Road, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak trains.

On its first day, the hall, unlike its sister facility across the street, was gleamingly clean, brightly lit and pleasant.

Digital panels on the ceiling created the image of a blue sky and passing clouds. Large windows allowed commuters to see the trains on the platforms below.

The concourse is the first phase of a plan to convert Manhattan's massive main post office into the Daniel Patrick Moynihan Train Hall, named for the late Democratic U.S. senator from New York who first proposed the project many years ago.

"It's beautiful," Lynne Watson, of Queens, told Newsday after heading down from her customer service job at the post office to take a look. "It makes it seem bright. You come through Penn Station and it's kind of dark down there."

The new entrances to the rail platforms will help ease the chokepoints that develop in Penn Station during rush hours, as too many commuters try to jam down too few stairwells and escalators.

By 2020, much of the post office is slated to become a grand new, $1.6 billion west wing of the station, replete with a dramatic glass roof, new retail and office space.




http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3250545

New West End Concourse opens for Penn Station to the delight of often-frustrated commuters


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo..._1200/penn.jpg



http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo..._1200/penn.jpg

mrnyc Jun 16, 2017 11:56 PM

i took a walk thru -- so clean and nice -- from yesterday! :cheers:



http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psthz455uv.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscoaf78xn.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdzcjvyjf.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pstenypbo6.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps19ufbyxv.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psqaystcyz.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psd84l1ajv.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps26ggdrbx.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdw4s1qiy.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscvktkati.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psf0ka7yga.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0dn4qpu0.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psvyupx9ah.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psnpqvw2lk.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0ynpcevq.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psgtyuhwcd.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdzxozkq8.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2eaopujr.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...pscjsmzoxg.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psdcralsq3.jpg

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...psjgmklcnb.jpg

chris08876 Jun 17, 2017 12:57 AM

Vornado, Related and Skanska finalize deal to build $1.6B Moynihan Train Hall :cheers:

https://s13.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...Renderings.jpg

Quote:

Vornado Realty Trust, Related Companies and Skanska have finalized a deal with the state to build a $1.6 billion train hall at James A. Farley Post Office, paving the way for construction to begin.

State officials announced the deal on Friday, roughly nine months after the companies were named the preferred design-build team for the project. The Empire State Development Corp., the state agency leading the development, inked a financial agreement with the team that requires $550 million from the state, $630 million from the developers and $420 million from Amtrak, the MTA and federal funds.

The financial breakdown differs slightly from what was announced in September, increasing the developers’ cut by $30 million and decreasing the state’s by $20 million. During a conference call held on Friday, officials explained the difference as a product of financing at a better rate than what was initially expected. Additional information was not immediately available.
Representatives for Related and Vornado declined to comment beyond a press release sent out by the governor’s office. Skanska didn’t immediately respond to messages seeking comment.

The new train hall will feature 700,000 square feet of office and retail space and a 255,000-square-foot train hall for both Amtrak and the Long Island Rail Road. The project is expected to be complete in 2022.

Friday’s announcement follows the opening of the train hall’s first phase, an Eighth Avenue entrance to the tracks below the post office. The news also comes as commuters brace themselves for a series of travel disruptions at Penn Station.

==================
TRD

NYguy Jun 21, 2017 3:22 AM

How the two meet...


brian kusler

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4209/3...05abbcec_k.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4251/3...a504d52b_k.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4205/3...72f84d31_k.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/3...023ca2cf_b.jpg

mrnyc Jun 21, 2017 6:12 PM

^ whoa the distortion on those made me a bit dizzy. yipes.

to be honest the new concourse isnt much more than a brighter than typical subway walkway, albeit with charging stations. its great that its open, that it opens up the farley bldg, makes room for lirr commuters and is a nice environment, such as it is, but the real difference won't come until moynihan hall opens. that will be a seriously impressive and transformative transit environment for penn.

NYguy Jun 26, 2017 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 7841491)
^ whoa the distortion on those made me a bit dizzy. yipes.

to be honest the new concourse isnt much more than a brighter than typical subway walkway, albeit with charging stations. its great that its open, that it opens up the farley bldg, makes room for lirr commuters and is a nice environment, such as it is, but the real difference won't come until moynihan hall opens.


Oh trust me. It's already made a big difference for me and many other people. Coming into Penn Station everyday, and having to stand on crowded train platforms as the crowd lslowly makes it's way up available stairways and escalators while the new stairways to the west end sat behind gates was simply infuriating. It added insult to all of the other shenanigans people had to endure just trying to get to Penn Station. They could have left the walls bare sheetrock, and it would have been an amazing development.

Anyway, I'm glad the renderings are on the outside of the building. It feels that much closer to getting built.


http://m1.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190236.jpg



http://m2.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190255.jpg



http://m3.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190316.jpg



http://m4.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/...625_190331.jpg

mrnyc Jun 26, 2017 9:08 PM

^ oh yeah i can certainly see the usefulness of the concourse for commuters with the much needed additional access. i was just referring to the looks of it. terms like grand or inspiring wont come into the play here until farley takes a bow and moynihan hall opens.

NYguy Jun 26, 2017 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 7846337)
^ oh yeah i can certainly see the usefulness of the concourse for commuters with the much needed additional access. i was just referring to the looks of it. terms like grand or inspiring wont come into the play here until farley takes a bow and moynihan hall opens.

Even that will be subject to criticisms. But any improvement over the current mess is an improvement.

TowerDude Jul 15, 2017 5:15 PM


Quote:

during the weekend of july 7-9, 2017, amtrak engineering forces work to replace track panels (ties, rail and switches) in "a" interlocking, an area of tracks and switches that serves as the crucial sorting mechanism routing trains that enter penn station from the hudson river tunnels and the long island rail road’s west side yard to the various tracks and platforms in the station.

This time-lapse video captured just over 48 hours of work.

jamesinclair Jul 30, 2017 4:23 AM

Biggest missed opportunity of all time?


NYC has no clue what to do with hundreds of these.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/...30043018_z.jpg20170710_200556 by J Sinclair, on Flickr

NYC has this.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4319/...e0ca0397_z.jpg20170710_195533 by J Sinclair, on Flickr

Connect the dots.

Moynihan Station was built to support hundreds of 18-whellers.

Moynihan Station is being built to support intercity transport.

CONNECT THE DOTS NYC!

Submariner Jul 30, 2017 3:06 PM

Those 18 wheelers would likely arrive and leave at off peak hours. Busses typically arrive and leave during rush hour, thus necessitating direct on/off access which this station doesn't have.

aquablue Aug 10, 2017 2:40 AM

What is going in the back of the Farley station? Is it offices? Originally MSG had a plan to move there, I hope they will still have that option.

NYguy Aug 10, 2017 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 7889009)
What is going in the back of the Farley station? Is it offices? Originally MSG had a plan to move there, I hope they will still have that option.

That part hasn't been fully revealed yet.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...groundbreaking

Finally, action: LaGuardia, Moynihan projects get going
Cuomo, at Delta terminal groundbreaking, reveals train hall start is just two weeks away


By Will Bredderman
August 8, 2017


Quote:

...The Moynihan Station project across from Penn Station comes nearly seven years after the first stage of the overhaul, a concourse expansion for the Long Island Rail Road, broke ground.

The governor unveiled the Moynihan news in an apparent aside, as he launched into a familiar jeremiad against projects that foundered in the "quagmire of the bureaucracy."

"Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, God rest his soul, said 20 years ago we need a substitute for Penn Station, because Penn Station is intolerable, and we should build a new train hall across the street," the governor said. "You know what happened in the interim? Nothing. And you know what's going to happen in two weeks? We're going to break ground on the new Moynihan train hall."

The Empire State Economic Development Corp., which Cuomo controls, finalized a deal with Vornado Realty Trust and Related Companies to overhaul the Farley post office building in June. Under the deal, the two private developers will pitch in $630 million toward the project, with the state directly contributing $550 million, plus other funds through the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Amtrak and the federal government will provide the balance of the $1.6 billion project.

Related and Vornado had previously signed on to redevelop the station in 2005, but ran into complications surrounding the possible relocation of Madison Square Garden from atop Penn Station and then the 2008 financial crisis.

Federal stimulus monies allowed the LIRR concourse expansion to break ground in 2010, and it opened to the public in June.


scalziand Aug 11, 2017 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Submariner (Post 7879945)
Those 18 wheelers would likely arrive and leave at off peak hours. Busses typically arrive and leave during rush hour, thus necessitating direct on/off access which this station doesn't have.

Dyer Ave is a block away. Is that still too far? Too bad the Manhattan West development has closed off the opportunity for a direct link there.

BBMW Aug 16, 2017 8:57 PM

I know exactly what to do with them. Keep them in Jersey. We don't need the 8,000 buses a day that come into the city.

Build a bus terminal at the Meadowland, then extend the 7 train over there to carry in all the bus passengers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesinclair (Post 7879806)
Biggest missed opportunity of all time?


NYC has no clue what to do with hundreds of these.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/...30043018_z.jpg20170710_200556 by J Sinclair, on Flickr

NYC has this.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4319/...e0ca0397_z.jpg20170710_195533 by J Sinclair, on Flickr

Connect the dots.

Moynihan Station was built to support hundreds of 18-whellers.

Moynihan Station is being built to support intercity transport.

CONNECT THE DOTS NYC!


streetscaper Aug 17, 2017 8:11 PM

Penn Station's Moynihan Train Hall begins construction

Quote:

The conversion of the James A. Farley Post Office building, across from Penn Station, into the new Moynihan Train Hall, is officially underway, Governor Andrew Cuomo announced Thursday afternoon.

Demolition work at the post office building got underway in September 2016, but the site has now been prepped for the new train hall which will measure 255,000 square feet, come with a 92-foot-tall skylight, and have nine platforms and 17 tracks serviced by eleven escalators and seven elevators...

....The vibrant retail he’s referring to will be part of 700,000 square feet of commercial, retail, and dining venues inside the transformed Farley building. Once complete, the new Moynihan Train Hall will provide a direct connection to the Eight Avenue Subway, and for the first time ever, a new entrance to the overall Penn-Farley complex on Ninth Avenue.

...Construction on the new train hall is set to wrap by 2020.


Some New Renderings

From 9th Ave

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4376/...8de00de8_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/...f22c54c3_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/...a8eb2b1d_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4399/...4d82fc72_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4386/...aea8de31_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4390/...9738fdb4_b.jpg

jayden Aug 17, 2017 8:13 PM

That last pic with One Manhattan West Towers and HY is amazing.

BStyles Aug 17, 2017 11:48 PM

It's like Penn Station reincarnated. This is impressive work. So does this officially mean that Farley will cease postal operations?

aquablue Aug 18, 2017 4:16 AM

It seems there could be a mall or offices in the rear portion of the building near 9th avenue, is this correct?

If so, it is a pity that MSG could never move there. A lost opportunity.

Also, when is the work on the old Penn starting - the new concourse and grand entrance?

NYguy Aug 19, 2017 12:09 AM

^ Blame Dolan for the MSG move.



Quote:

Originally Posted by BStyles (Post 7896474)
It's like Penn Station reincarnated. This is impressive work. So does this officially mean that Farley will cease postal operations?

It's still open. What will pass for the new Penn Station concourse is actually on a lower level. The Farley Annex (the addition that was added to the west) will be largely the commercial space. It's where the new MSG was supposed to go. But mail hasn't been processed in the building for years, it's been mostly vacant. The post office will occupy only about a quarter million sf of the space, with the typical 99 year lease.

NYguy Aug 19, 2017 12:16 AM

Worth a good look...


https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-8.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-3.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-6.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-7.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-11.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-12.jpg




http://www.amny.com/transit/moynihan...one-1.14069020


http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1...280/image.jpeg



https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-2.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-1.jpg

aquablue Aug 22, 2017 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 7897685)
^ Blame Dolan for the MSG move.





It's still open. What will pass for the new Penn Station concourse is actually on a lower level. The Farley Annex (the addition that was added to the west) will be largely the commercial space. It's where the new MSG was supposed to go. But mail hasn't been processed in the building for years, it's been mostly vacant. The post office will occupy only about a quarter million sf of the space, with the typical 99 year lease.

Oh I certainly blame him, but I place more blame on the city of NY for letting the whole mess start in the first place and allowing Penn to be demolished and MSG put there. Dolan is not the whole story here. After all, he's just another business owner looking to make as much profit as possible. The city has a responsibility of good stewardship and they made a choice.

I also think this is the end for Penn Station's possible redevelopment. Sad, but there doesn't seem to be other sites that Dolan would find appealing available in the area unless something massively changes. No doubt, the annex is now off the table unless something crazy happened down the line and the developers were willing to do another deal - unlikely if the mall and office space is successful.

What Penn really needed was fundamental track changes, not just pretty head houses. The current project is a nice improvement over the old place for Amtrak and some LIRR pax, but it doesn't serve enough people, doesn't fix the transport and capacity issues with Penn Station, and doesn't help fix the old Penn's ugly appearance.

NYguy Aug 23, 2017 3:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 7900522)
Oh I certainly blame him, but I place more blame on the city of NY for letting the whole mess start in the first place and allowing Penn to be demolished and MSG put there. Dolan is not the whole story here. After all, he's just another business owner looking to make as much profit as possible. The city has a responsibility of good stewardship and they made a choice.

Of course, in hindsight Penn Station should not have been destroyed. But there was nothing the city could do to stop it. It did lead to the preservation of Grand Central and other landmarks, so there is a little ray of light in that. But as far as the move to the Farley Building, it was absolutely Dolan's fault. His temper tantrum with not being able to put MSG signage over the front (8th Ave side) of Farley - the landmarked portion - is one of the reasons he backed out.


Quote:

I also think this is the end for Penn Station's possible redevelopment. Sad, but there doesn't seem to be other sites that Dolan would find appealing available in the area unless something massively changes. No doubt, the annex is now off the table unless something crazy happened down the line and the developers were willing to do another deal - unlikely if the mall and office space is successful.
I doubt Dolan would welcome any new deal to move into Farley for the reasons listed above.



Quote:

What Penn really needed was fundamental track changes, not just pretty head houses. The current project is a nice improvement over the old place for Amtrak and some LIRR pax, but it doesn't serve enough people, doesn't fix the transport and capacity issues with Penn Station, and doesn't help fix the old Penn's ugly appearance.
I have to disagree with you there. I have to commute through Penn Station daily, and it is a dangerously overcrowded mess when things are in order. The new extension into Farley is not meant to be a replacement to Penn Station, rather an extension that would allow for more free movement in the station, along with improved everything else. It will be a grand entry for Amtrak passengers and others who will once again enter into the city in a building worthy of it (no one emerges in the current Penn Station with and delusions of awe). It will be something the city can be proud of, rather than ashamed of. And rather than waiting for an MSG move that may never come, and after decades of talk, we are finally getting what was promised.

In a perfect world, we would get a new Penn Station on the current site (something also questionable due to the ballooned population of Penn Station on that site). But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. And what we're getting at Moynihan is good, very good.

TowerDude Aug 23, 2017 10:38 PM

I wonder what all these retail locations will be repurposed for when Amazon eats them alive.

NYguy Aug 24, 2017 3:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 7901793)
I wonder what all these retail locations will be repurposed for when Amazon eats them alive.

They'll do fine. Foot traffic, especially in pedestrian rich New York (not to mention Penn Station) will keep the afloat.

citybooster Aug 24, 2017 7:36 AM

I would agree with the optimism over the retail, especially in this location.

Regarding Moynihan Station, while not the perfect solution we're getting a lot better than we have now. It's definitely something welcome even if for the foreseeable future Dolan's presence with MSG limits what can be done with Penn Station itself.

Crawford Aug 24, 2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 7901793)
I wonder what all these retail locations will be repurposed for when Amazon eats them alive.

If retail can't survive in Penn Station, the busiest train terminal on earth outside Japan, then it can't survive anywhere.

Retail will be fine. Retail rents in Manhattan have never been higher. Amazon is opening retail stores too, including one right by Penn Station.

Crawford Aug 24, 2017 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 7900522)
Oh I certainly blame him, but I place more blame on the city of NY for letting the whole mess start in the first place and allowing Penn to be demolished and MSG put there. Dolan is not the whole story here. After all, he's just another business owner looking to make as much profit as possible. The city has a responsibility of good stewardship and they made a choice.

I also think this is the end for Penn Station's possible redevelopment. Sad, but there doesn't seem to be other sites that Dolan would find appealing available in the area unless something massively changes. No doubt, the annex is now off the table unless something crazy happened down the line and the developers were willing to do another deal - unlikely if the mall and office space is successful.

What Penn really needed was fundamental track changes, not just pretty head houses. The current project is a nice improvement over the old place for Amtrak and some LIRR pax, but it doesn't serve enough people, doesn't fix the transport and capacity issues with Penn Station, and doesn't help fix the old Penn's ugly appearance.

Moynihan Station has nothing to do with the MSG site and its future prospects. They're completely unrelated.

MSG has about seven years left before they will be forced to leave, BTW.

There are actually three unrelated projects going on that will eventually connect to the existing Penn: 1. Moynihan Station (which is basically just a train hall for the existing platforms), 2. MSG (which will either be demolished or repurposed as a train hall/mixed use redevelopment) and 3. Gateway (which will be a new train terminal/platforms, built underground, to the south, connected to the existing Penn).

Moynihan is an LIRR and Amtrak project (though Metro North will probably replace Amtrak once Gateway is built), Gateway is an Amtrak project (and possibly NJ Transit) and MSG is unclear at this point.

NYguy Aug 25, 2017 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citybooster (Post 7902166)
I would agree with the optimism over the retail, especially in this location.

Regarding Moynihan Station, while not the perfect solution we're getting a lot better than we have now. It's definitely something welcome even if for the foreseeable future Dolan's presence with MSG limits what can be done with Penn Station itself.

Cuomo still has plans for the "MSG" portion of Penn Station, including opening some parts up to daylight....

https://www.designboom.com/architect...rk-01-08-2016/


https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-05.jpg



https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-06.jpg




https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...02-818x509.jpg



https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...03-818x591.jpg



https://www.designboom.com/wp-conten...ignboom-11.jpg




Remembering an earlier plan...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/ny...n.html?mcubz=0
New Grandeur for Penn Station in Latest Plan

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
JULY 4, 2007

Quote:

In the next three weeks, two of the city’s largest developers will unveil new plans for rebuilding the station, moving Madison Square Garden, replacing the Hotel Pennsylvania, and erecting a pair of skyscrapers, one of which would be taller than the Empire State Building, over the site of the existing station.

Though the new plan is broadly similar to a proposal offered a year ago, it is different in several important ways, starting with the cost: $14 billion, double that of the original plan, a real estate executive who has seen the plan said. It is also bigger than anticipated: the entire plan, involving buildings on six adjacent blocks, would create 10 million square feet of new office space off West 33rd Street, as much as in the old World Trade Center.

...The new plan would try to recapture the imposing aura of the original station inside the James A. Farley Post Office across the street, with a vast, street-level waiting room under a glass canopy that would spill sunlight onto the concourse two levels below.

...The developers also have yet to hammer out a final deal with the owners of Madison Square Garden, Cablevision and the Dolan family, to move the Garden to the western part of the Farley building, which would be the arena’s fifth home in 132 years. The two sides have a nonbinding agreement.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...-before-moving

MSG wants Farley alterations before moving
The most striking change to the James A. Farley Post Office would be the installation of a huge glass wall between the train hall and the Garden.


By Anne Michaud
October 16, 2007

Quote:

The Dolan family, which owns Madison Square Garden, is requesting significant alterations to the James A. Farley Post Office interior as part of an agreement to move MSG into the building’s western annex, say two people who participated in a state-sponsored tour last week.

The most striking change would be the installation of a huge glass wall between the proposed train hall and MSG, which the Garden wants in order to better advertise events. Garden officials also want to expand two large arches that lead from the post office area into the train hall, and create four arches instead.

Peg Breen, president of the New York Landmarks Conservancy, says the changes skew the project too far from the public interest.

“Neither one of these things is necessary for the Garden to have a successful move,” she says. “This started out as a project to provide a great gateway to New York, and it is turning into a lobby for the Garden.”



The window for putting a new MSG into the Farley has passed, but it would have went something like this...



http://m1.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...sM7uE.rpa1.jpg



http://m7.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...rleyGarden.jpg



http://m0.i.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1...leyGarden2.jpg



A few more looks...



http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showth...=3579&page=166

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...2&d=1355083433



http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...9&d=1355083385



http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attach...1&d=1355083431


I don't know if anyone here remembers the original plans to put office towers into the back side of the Farley Building. There was a design contest with about 5 or so firms submitting plans.

NYguy Aug 25, 2017 5:26 PM

http://www.gettyimages.com/event/gov...re-id833759450

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759530



http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759402



http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id833759278



https://twitter.com/rbl1910

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHcJIMaVYAAKJjd.jpg



https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/16/1582...-redevelopment


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chor...4.36.19_PM.png



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/h2VD...31.23_PM.0.png


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chor...4.35.19_PM.png



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/4Udk...4.31.43_PM.png



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wxTj...4.34.32_PM.png



http://www.som.com/projects/moynihan_train_hall

http://www.som.com/FILE/23614/moynih...900_som_05.jpg



http://www.usasom.com/data/upload/im...1e802e1362.jpg


https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-releases...gets-underway/


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-8.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-3.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...ust-2017-7.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-11.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...st-2017-12.jpg

LMich Aug 25, 2017 7:10 PM

NYguy,

Admittedly I haven't read through the thread, so entertain me. But I was wondering about some of the logistics of this project in particular.

- Will this be considered a new station, or do we think it's numbers will be reported with Penn Station's when it's operational?

- In that same vein, are trains/platforms being moved to Moynihan, or is this project simply creating a new access to particular platforms. Regardless, what in particular is Moynihan taking from Penn Station in terms of service/access/platforms?

Thanks. Love this project.

NYguy Aug 25, 2017 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMich (Post 7903620)
NYguy,

- Will this be considered a new station, or do we think it's numbers will be reported with Penn Station's when it's operational?

- In that same vein, are trains/platforms being moved to Moynihan, or is this project simply creating a new access to particular platforms. Regardless, what in particular is Moynihan taking from Penn Station in terms of service/access/platforms?

Thanks. Love this project.


You could consider it an expanded Penn Station, because that's what it will be more or less. But it will be the focal point of Penn Station. The platforms are being extended. The Amtrak and LIRR trains will terminate there, LIRR will also utilize the existing platforms as well as NJ Transit (though Cuomo claims no LIRR passenger will ever have to enter the old Penn Station again).

It's similar in a way to the new LIRR terminal at Grand Central, though that one will have new patforms built underneath existing ones. It will all flow together as one station.

Eventually, when the Hotel Pennsylvania is demolished, we will have a direct connection to the PATH terminal, as well as more subway lines. That will be very similar to the current Fulton Terminal - WTC PATH Station - Brookfield Place continuous pedestrian concourse. It will stretch from 6th Ave & Broadway all the way to 9th Avenue and the Hudson Yards.

NYguy Aug 25, 2017 9:10 PM

When the new Gateway tunnels are completed, we could get an expanded station to the south that would look something like this...


http://www.realtransit.org/nec17.php


http://www.realtransit.org/images/nec/nec85.png



http://www.realtransit.org/images/nec/nec87.png

LMich Aug 25, 2017 11:15 PM

So, essentially, Moynihan Station replaces the operations of the LIRR and Amtrak at Penn Station? Does this mean NJ Transit operations stay in Penn Station proper? Just trying to figure out of the three services which ones will be mainly accessed through which "station" as it sounds like Penn Station proper is basically going to lose it's "main" status and become the "back" of the house. Thanks!

NYguy Aug 26, 2017 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMich (Post 7903826)
So, essentially, Moynihan Station replaces the operations of the LIRR and Amtrak at Penn Station? Does this mean NJ Transit operations stay in Penn Station proper? Just trying to figure out of the three services which ones will be mainly accessed through which "station" as it sounds like Penn Station proper is basically going to lose it's "main" status and become the "back" of the house. Thanks!

NJ Transit has a concourse of it's own on the 7th Ave (eastern) end of Penn Station. I don't use it, preferring to stay on the west end and exiting through the LIRR portion of the east end when I do. Or I can exit through the Amtrak wing, which is also on the upper level of the station. But it really depends on which part of the train you are on when you arrive. For example, if I'm closer to the back of the train, and I'm going to the west side, I will exit through the Farley Building, which currently has the west end concourse open.


At the end of this clip, you can see the concourse connections currently under Farley...


Video Link




This clip also explains it a little better...



Video Link

BrownTown Aug 26, 2017 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 7903733)
When the new Gateway tunnels are completed, we could get an expanded station to the south that would look something like this...

Feels more like it's a question of IF they are ever completed (at least in our lifetimes).

I mean seriously, nothing is getting done and even ESA which is under construction has seen 15 years of delays. I'm 32 years old, but if this is built at the same rate of speed of ESA I'll be retired before it's ready to ferry me to work.

NYguy Aug 29, 2017 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownTown (Post 7904209)
Feels more like it's a question of IF they are ever completed (at least in our lifetime.

I mean seriously, nothing is getting done and even ESA which is under construction has seen 15 years of delays. I'm 32 years old, but if this is built at the same rate of speed of ESA I'll be retired before it's ready to ferry me to work.

It'll get done if only because they have no choice. The current tunnel WILL have to be shut down.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1AQ2J8

New York train tunnel project hires expert in public-private finance

Hilary Russ
August 10, 2017

Quote:

The Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel underneath New York’s Hudson River, has hired a private financing expert from French bank Societe Generale as interim chief financial officer, the program said on Thursday.

Gateway Program Development Corporation trustees said at a board meeting that Francis Sacr, who headed Societe’s (SOGN.PA) infrastructure finance team for the Americas, will oversee financing for the $24 billion joint effort between national rail company Amtrak, New Jersey and New York to improve a critical train traffic chokepoint on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor.



http://newjersey.news12.com/story/36...tunnel-project

Quote:

The Federal Railroad Association and New Jersey Transit held a series of public meetings Thursday to provide updates on the Gateway Tunnel Project.

The tunnel, which will connect New Jersey to Manhattan, is still in the early stages, with a groundbreaking not set until 2019.

Thursday’s meetings come as environmental impact studies for the tunnel are being completed.

Officials say that the tunnel could take seven years to complete once construction begins. Work will then begin on repairing the current Hudson River rail tunnel, which carries about 450 trains per day.

Rail officials say that there is urgency to get both projects complete because the current tunnel is 106 years old and was damaged during Superstorm Sandy.

Lawmakers have said that if the current tunnel were to be put out of commission before a new one is in place it would paralyze travel between the two states.

Several environmental groups attended Thursday’s meeting. They say that the new tunnel will allow more people to travel to and from New York by rail, decreasing the amount of cars on the road.

“The Gateway Project is the most important infrastructure project in the country,” says Somerset County Freeholder Peter Palmer. “This is the first step. Let’s get on with it.”

The new tunnel will cost about $10 billion to construct and another $2 billion to repair the current tunnel.



All times are GMT. The time now is 9:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.