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MichaelRyerson Jul 23, 2012 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 5774504)
There was another building next to the Garnier on the freeway side that was completely wiped out, so the end that you're seeing in the earliest picture is that building. The Garnier is the building next to it with the roof in 3 segments.

Oh, you are exactly right. I had completely forgotten/overlooked that. It shows as 'The Golden Lion' on the 1909 Birdseye although I don't know anything more about it. It's hard to find background on many of these buildings if they didn't play a pretty significant role. I wonder what The Golden Lion was.

ProphetM Jul 23, 2012 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 5774630)
Oh, you are exactly right. I had completely forgotten/overlooked that. It shows as 'The Golden Lion' on the 1909 Birdseye although I don't know anything more about it. It's hard to find background on many of these buildings if they didn't play a pretty significant role. I wonder what The Golden Lion was.

I am trying to see what I can find online. The Garnier Building is apparently 421 and/or 423 N. Los Angeles, so I started searching numbers 401-421 N. Los Angeles.

What should I find mentioned as being at 401 N. Los Angeles in 1934 but the Paris Inn:
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-...arles-bukowski

I realize that way, way back in this thread it was mentioned as being at 210 E. Market originally, and even as late as 1932. In any case, 401 may be a bit too far south to be the building in question. I am going to keep looking.

MichaelRyerson Jul 23, 2012 10:44 PM

All things being equal I might just as well spend some time over at 438 N. Alameda
 
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7268/7...fc11a602_o.jpg
octoroon token
Ebay

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7...b44e16d6_o.jpg
octoroon token, reverse
Ebay

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7...fea76286_o.jpg
octoroon token, II
Ebay

ProphetM Jul 24, 2012 12:35 AM

So, I've been Googling to find the name of that building next to the Garnier Block but no luck yet. What I have found is that addresses from 415 N. Los Angeles up to 423 have all been referred to as the Garnier Building. I also found a Chinese businesses directory from 1913 in which the lowest 400 block number is 411. But none of the listings say the names of the buildings, just their addresses.

In wrapping my head around the location of this building (northwest corner of Los Angeles & Arcadia Sts.) and trying to place it in the midst of its departed brethren, I realized that any addresses on the other side of Arcadia St. would have backed up to the Baker Block. Does anyone know what was on the back side of the Baker Block, facing Los Angeles St.? It didn't take up the entire space between Main and Los Angeles, did it?

ProphetM Jul 24, 2012 9:12 AM

So I found the name of the building; you'll never guess where...

In this thread. :haha:
Beaudry posted a couple of Sanborn maps of Chinatown way back on page 69, over two years ago:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaudry (Post 4856584)
That's an amazing first plan, the 1924 one; think of LA without what little remains around the Plaza...

...now you've got me thinking about Chinatown...the REAL Chinatown...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/...04ee3527_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/...40fd9bfe_o.jpg

So the name of the lost building next to the Garnier was apparently the Jennette Block. It was also mentioned by gsjansen in this thread in early 2011. It's a bit hard to read the numbers on the pic but I think its address numbers were 401 to 407, and the Garnier's were 409-423.

Armed with the name, I found a lovely photo:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics18/00018809.jpg
LAPL


I also discovered the answer to one of my own questions - what building sat behind the Baker Block, facing Los Angeles St. It was a two-story structure called the Arcadia Block, and supposedly the first brick business building in Los Angeles, at 345 N. Los Angeles St.:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics19/00019143.jpg
LAPL

This photo faces east, and you can make out the central tower of the Baker block behind it, and also the framework of LA City Hall under construction. Arcadia St. is the street on the right edge of the photo, across which lies the Jennette Block. Arcadia St. was just one block long, running between Main and Los Angeles Sts., and was no doubt named for Arcadia Bandini de Stearns Baker. She was first married to Abel Stearns, who built the Arcadia Block, and then after his death she married Robert Symington Baker, who built the Baker Block on the site of the former Stearns residence, a large and apparently lavish adobe. (and he also co-founded Santa Monica, among other things). So both of the buildings that bordered the south side of Arcadia St. were built by Arcadia's husbands. :)

To bring back the Paris Inn....
If my earlier link to the LA Times quote is to be believed, the Paris Inn was located in the Jennette Block in 1934, but that contradicts statements in the thread that they were at 210 E. Market until about 1950. However, we also have this post from 2011:

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrea517 (Post 5191172)
Hi Ninja55. I have read quite a bit about your uncle...very interesting man. I mentioned previously that my grandma danced at the old Paris Inn on Market St and then the new one on Broadway when I'm assuming eminent domain took over the land. My grandma always said it was for the 101fwy but looking at the map it looks too far north.

andrea517's grandma could be right after all, because if the Paris Inn moved to the Jennette Block, then it could have been forced out from there about 1950 when that building was demolished to make room for the 101. But, the location on Market was also taken over in the early 1950s to make way for Parker Center, so maybe the LA times article is just wrong.

But then it seems the Jennette Block already had something to do with Paris, even while the Paris Inn Cafe was down on Market Street:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics18/00018810.jpg
LAPL

It's all just so confusing now. :shrug:

This Flickr set by spacecadetsf is specifically devoted to pictures of and near Los Angeles Street and has photos and drawings of a great many buildings that no longer exist. And in fact some of the photos in the set are from this thread.

MichaelRyerson Jul 24, 2012 12:10 PM

Great job, Prophet! And thanks.
 
By way of an excuse, let me say I had come to 'see' pictures of the Garnier Building as simply reaching all the way to the corner of Arcadia, in some way, subconsciously I suppose, assuming the construction was over two (or three) phases sort of like the Brunswig building(s) over on Main Street and Republic (Hayes Alley). The poor Jennette Building just sort of faded into the background (for me) even though it was right there in front of me. Just laziness, I guess. Interesting about the naming of Arcadia which has always interested me, it being such a short little guy. And now, ironically, it occupies the Aliso roadbed and Aliso, the extension of which spelled the doom of the Baker Block, is all the way over on the other side of the 101! Oh and in my own defense, let me also say I just knew our salvation lay in the Sanborn maps! Our thread has gotten so big that it is beginning to be a significant research tool in answering it's own questions! I wish the search engine was better. Thanks again, it's great having you around.

fhammon Jul 24, 2012 7:48 PM

I believe that the building which now houses La Golondrina Restaurant, The Pelanconi House on Olvera st. holds the distinction of being the first brick business establishment in Los Angeles being a home, winery and warehouse.

http://www.olvera-street.com/assets/...nconiHouse.jpghttp://www.olvera-street.com/html/_history.html

[IMG]Pelaconi House[/IMG]

ProphetM Jul 24, 2012 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 5775991)
I believe that the building which now houses La Golondrina Restaurant, The Pelanconi House on Olvera st. holds the distinction of being the first brick business establishment in Los Angeles being a home, winery and warehouse.

http://www.olvera-street.com/assets/...nconiHouse.jpghttp://www.olvera-street.com/html/_history.html

[IMG]Pelaconi House[/IMG]

I would imagine that their claim counts the Pelanconi House as just a house. This page indicates that the winery was across Olvera St. from the house, and that the warehouse next to it was built in 1910.

The Arcadia Block building was apparently built by 1875 - Here's a pic of the Stearns adobe with the Arcadia Block behind it dated about 1875. Maybe the Pelanconi House was still just a house at that point? Or maybe the claim just depends on wording and it was the first brick building built for business or some other semantic distinction like that.

MichaelRyerson Jul 24, 2012 10:02 PM

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8289/7...758080a3_o.jpg
pelanconihouse

PELANCONI HOUSE (1855-57) was built by Italian vintner, Giuseppi Cavacciand is the oldest brick house in Los Angeles. It was bought by Antonio Pelanconi in 1871. It has been used as a wine cellar and in 1930, Senora Consuelo Castillo de Bonzo took it over for a restaurant, known as La Golondrina, which is the oldest restaurant on Olvera Street. lasangelitas.org

fhammon Jul 24, 2012 10:27 PM

Yes, yes, yes...
But before the Pelonconi's came along, before the warehouse in the back was built and before the winery across the street, isn't it obvious that Giuseppi Cavacciand built this house as a place of residence and business?
The big door on the bottom story speaks to me of commerce, production, shipping etc.

I don't know when the fireplace in the bottom was added - if it was originally built and designed with the building but the story goes it was used in the production of sherry.
I realize I'm quibbling.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...view/CHS-35166

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...view/CHS-35166

Moxie Jul 24, 2012 11:24 PM

Loving the information on Pelanconi House, since I've actually been there. :) Here are a few pics I took just before New Year's 2011...

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/SAM_0380.jpg
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/SAM_0392.jpg
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/SAM_0383.jpg
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/SAM_0386.jpg
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...m/SAM_0391.jpg

MichaelRyerson Jul 25, 2012 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 5776218)
Yes, yes, yes...
But before the Pelonconi's came along, before the warehouse in the back was built and before the winery across the street, isn't it obvious that Giuseppi Cavacciand built this house as a place of residence and business?

I realize I'm quibbling.

Yes, you may be quibbling but it's a pretty high quality quibble. If Giuseppi was a wine maker, I doubt he moved into the house and sat on his hands. It's reasonable to make the assumption he set about making a living before the outbuildings were built. But it would be nice to find some evidence to support it. Even the 'official' designation would only go so far as to say 'first brick edifice'.

ProphetM Jul 25, 2012 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 5776218)
Yes, yes, yes...
But before the Pelonconi's came along, before the warehouse in the back was built and before the winery across the street, isn't it obvious that Giuseppi Cavacciand built this house as a place of residence and business?

You could be entirely right, I am not versed in the prevalence of wide doorways in mid-19th century western residential architecture. Doesn't make any difference to me of course one way or the other, and the Arcadia Block is long gone anyway.

And what in the world did USC do to that caption? The picture is great but that caption seems to be the wrong street name, describing the wrong direction and the wrong year as well. :haha:

ethereal_reality Jul 25, 2012 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 5776403)
And what in the world did USC do to that caption? The picture is great but that caption seems to be the wrong street name, describing the wrong direction and the wrong year as well. :haha:

It would be wise for USC history students to follow this thread.
___

fhammon Jul 25, 2012 6:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5776554)
It would be wise for USC history students to follow this thread.
___

Uh-Oh. Maybe you've mention this before but I missed it.
What's the problem? People not naming the USC library as the linked source or the fact that they're library photos are being used in this way?

I agree. One would think they'd be happy to oblige. USC's library photos are a wonderful resource providing service to the community.
I feel we're using them in the best possible way. I guess I don't understand their point of view. Probably something to do with money (funding).

ethereal_reality Jul 25, 2012 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 5776719)
Uh-Oh. Maybe you've mention this before but I missed it.
What's the problem? People not naming the USC library as the linked source or the fact that they're library photos are being used in this way?

I agree. One would think they'd be happy to oblige. USC's library photos are a wonderful resource providing service to the community.
I feel we're using them in the best possible way. I guess I don't understand their point of view. Probably something to do with money (funding).

Hi fhammon:

I edited my initial post....so people are prob. wondering why you asked me those questions.

My unedited post mentioned that USC had personally contacted me warning about the usage of their photographs here on 'noirish Los Angeles'. This happened some time ago so hopefully everything is now copacetic. They had me write a 'disclaimer' (I'm not sure if that's the correct word) to my very first post that opened this thread. They also wanted, understandably so, the link to their archive beneath ea. photograph posted. When I started the thread I obviously had NO inkling it would become so huge, so I was a bit lax with the rules at the beginning.

That said, this journey through Los Angeles history has been utterly amazing!!!
I wish I could thank you all in person for your brilliant contributions.

__

ethereal_reality Jul 25, 2012 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 5774975)

Excuse my naivety but what were these tokens used for? Why not just use money?


below: Here's another one.

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/9193/a...yclubcoin1.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img256/5576/a...ubcoin1eby.jpg
ebay

MichaelRyerson Jul 25, 2012 6:20 PM

Well, to tell the truth, I don't know for sure, but I would imagine they were used for the same reasons tokens are used in other applications, i.e. to minimize the number of people who have access to the cash. This way, the madam handles the money, the girls are limited to handling only the tokens, which they then turn in for their 'cut', likely meager. This is my best guess. I feel some research coming on. I just noticed the token you posted actually has a phone number on it (and a modern number at that) and offers, with perhaps other services, 'burlesque dancing'. This all seems somewhat above board, legitimate even. Mine is for an actual whore house.

fhammon Jul 25, 2012 6:23 PM

E_R. Most of those types of tokens are bogus. They were sold to suckers and tourists.
A prize goes to anybody who can find evidence that an establishment named "The Octoroon" (a somewhat rude way of categorizing a person of mixed race), run by a Madame Bolanger, ever existed in Los Angeles.
It's possible but I doubt it.
We certainly had our share of Madames and their establishments and from what I've read, for awhile they were respected among many members of the community. They produced a lot of revenue for the city and no doubt helped line the pockets of certain city officials.
Sometime shortly after the turn of the century a big kabosh was put on the industry and the business as legitimate and legal were abolished (wink). I'm sure the pocket lining continued though.

MichaelRyerson Jul 25, 2012 7:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhammon (Post 5777255)

A prize goes to anybody who can find evidence that an establishment named "The Octoroon" (a somewhat rude way of categorizing a person of mixed race), run by a Madame Bolanger, ever existed in Los Angeles.

What's the prize?


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