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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Eventually...Chicago Aug 20, 2008 4:20 AM

this just shows what is wrong with the public transit process, they have to dance through hoops to get even the most logical projects done. They shouldn't even have to ask for community support, if qualified people say that a stop there makes sense then just do it. Heck, they should have a stop at 16th and cermak.

You have to wonder if any new lines will ever be constructed after the decades it will take to do feasibility studies, alternatives analysis, impact studies, just freakin' grab the land and build the damn thing. If there is one area other than education where you can generally throw indiscriminate amounts of money and expect a return on investment, it's in infrastructure. Due process blows.

also, you have to remember that its not just the condo commandos that make up nimbies. the ghetto communities have some of the worst nimbies out there.

The "i want to pretend i still live in bloomingdale" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it will encourage new development thus bring more people, life, action to the area (things most of us consider good in an urban environment)

The "i do nothing to help my neighborhood because we're disenfranchised" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it means new people will be heading into their area and they'll lose the power they have in the community. They don't care if their community stagnates just so long as they control what happens (i.e. pretty much the entire south side, especially chatham)

And if people in the area are worried about crime, they shouldn't be. All the gang bangers already hang out at the roosevelt station when they either come over from douglas park on the #12 bus (like the 3 guys who murdered another by pushing a kid onto the tracks) or from the green or red line.

VivaLFuego Aug 20, 2008 4:37 AM

The Orange Line meeting was well-attended - I'd guess around 75-100 attendees total - and seemed to generally have very positive support from the wide mix of community members, business owners, and the handful of elected officials in attendance. They all seemed to be excited about the investment, aside from a couple isolated comments re: crime (as if Ford City is an idyllic paradise right now....sorry, guys...) and only wish the Federal funding process didn't take so long.

ardecila Aug 20, 2008 5:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3746034)
Because everyone knows the CTA makes the best getaway vehicle.

Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?

UChicagoDomer Aug 20, 2008 2:39 PM

is Chicago's west loop transit station dead?
 
Union Station may become Denver's gateway again -- if it stays on track

link

saw this report on Denver's grand plans for a intermodal transit center. it seems like there is a plethora of car-dependent western and southern cities, whose beefed-up transit systems are beginning to make Chicago look bad (charlotte, denver, dallas, etc.) is the west loop transportation center just another one of those long forgotten much talked-about pipe dreams that we'll read about and yearn for, for the next 20 years with chagrined hearts and teary eyes on chicago-l.org??

emathias Aug 20, 2008 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 3746547)
Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?

I lock my doors driving through Lincoln Park - frat boys are SCARY!

VivaLFuego Aug 20, 2008 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UChicagoDomer (Post 3747020)
[SIZE="5"] it seems like there is a plethora of car-dependent western and southern cities, whose beefed-up transit systems are beginning to make Chicago look bad (charlotte, denver, dallas, etc.)

Seriously? I mean, those cities are doing praiseworthy extensions (largely because of the federal funding guidelines that are biased against dense cities with established transit and towards cities with little/no transit), but come on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 3746547)
Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?

Oh I know, I wasn't snarking at you, rather just at the notion that public transit = crime in my neighborhood.

Mr Downtown Aug 20, 2008 3:58 PM

I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.

Chicago Shawn Aug 20, 2008 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3747229)
I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.

I didn't make up anything. I am justing stating that I would expect NIMByism to show up based on my experiance with some people living in the South Loop in various community meetings and then durring the municipal campaign season, and my own NIMBY cousin who lives over on 16th Street. PDNA is filled with idiots who should not have moved next door to the largest convention center in North America, and have pushed for things like Cul-de-sacing Calumet Avenue. This station should bring in new density, bring in more pedestrains (and more "crime") and this is what they fear. They want sterile suburbia at 18th and Prairie. Now if there wern't any objections, then that is great, and a step forward in the right direction.

VivaLFuego Aug 20, 2008 4:32 PM

... did anyone actually attend the South Loop meeting, and if so, what was the tenor?




Also, I thought I'd share this interesting Reader article from 1997 (originally linked from the Hyde Park Progress blog) about the demolition of the Jackson Park leg of the Green Line.

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi...r%20brazier%22

Chicago Shawn Aug 20, 2008 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3747320)
... did anyone actually attend the South Loop meeting, and if so, what was the tenor?




Also, I thought I'd share this interesting Reader article from 1997 (originally linked from the Hyde Park Progress blog) about the demolition of the Jackson Park leg of the Green Line.

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi...r%20brazier%22

Wow, great article. I have already read through the archives and related articles over at Chicago-L.org; but this one really angers me. I really hate Arthur Brazier, he just orchistarted his power to make people belive the El was the cause of all the problems in woodlawn. Now that the scapegoat is gone, and his vison of turning Woodlawn's 63rd Street into a auto-centric suburban community has never materialized, we still have a blighted strecth of vacant lots. Hmmm, guess the el wasn't the reason for 63rd's blight, in fact there are even fewer businesses now. I'm glad it stayed vacant, and I hope this Columbia Pointe garbage now proposed for the land is a victom of the sour housing market. If you think Lowenburg high-rises are bad, then you don't want to see his single family homes planned for 63rd Street.

the urban politician Aug 21, 2008 3:00 AM

Why is it that all of the stupid crap always happens on the south side of Chicago?

Eventually...Chicago Aug 21, 2008 5:42 AM

as i south looper myself, my impression of people's sentiment is not so much that the transit "creates" crime (which it most certainly does not) but that the south loop's actual location lends it self to co-mingling of the gentry and the ghetto. The roosevelt and wabash intersection serves as a point of entry to the downtown area for a lot of surrounding areas that are not what you would call "safe" communities (douglas park to the west and whatever you call the area between the south loop/Chinatown & Bridgeport/IIT). It is kind of similar to the weird element that congregates around clark and division or at least when cabrini was still there.

I do think that you can say in some instances the transit station attracts crime. Would the thugs be there if there was no station? No, they'd go someplace else. But again, the crime is indicative of the community and not any inherent characteristic of transit. When a person blames transit for crime in the area its like a hitter blaming the fence for being too far away as the reason for not hitting a home run.


^^^ TUP, i really do think the "gang" mentality permeates even the good south side communities. They are so intent on protecting their turf that they turn away any potential connection with something outside their dominion. For example, most of the north side communities have made very little noise regarding potential venues and housing for the olympic games, yet most of the south side communities see this as an opportunity to leverage their power. I've worked on a few south side building projects and the only ones that make it with aldermanic approval are the ones that have a particular street organization or block group's blessing. They end up exerting their control so absolutely that any real dollars that could come in and revamp an area look elsewhere for the "low hanging fruit".

emathias Aug 21, 2008 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 3747229)
I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.

With the potential for density in that area, I'd be okay with one at each.

emathias Aug 22, 2008 1:16 PM

Did anyone go to the August CTA Board meeting? Were there really no presentations, as reported on transitchicago.com?

jjk1103 Aug 23, 2008 3:05 AM

.......I rode the Blue Line in from O'Hare ......there didn't appear to be any slow zones ?! .......or was I just lucky that time ?

VivaLFuego Aug 23, 2008 6:40 AM

^There are still a few slow zones between Addison and Jefferson Park, and I think the speed is still limited to 35mph around some of the special trackwork (e.g. crossovers). But the overall travel time from O'Hare to Clark/Lake is finally down to a respectable 41-44 minutes.

ardecila Aug 23, 2008 6:45 AM

What's the ideal travel time, if the tracks and signals are all in good condition and there are no accidents or bad weather? Will the new Blue Line railcars be able to reduce this time with better acceleration or possibly a higher speed?

jjk1103 Aug 23, 2008 1:36 PM

.........once again the Red Line is being re-routed to elevated for the weekend ? .....what are they doing in the subway......and when will it all be finished ?

k1052 Aug 23, 2008 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjk1103 (Post 3753902)
.........once again the Red Line is being re-routed to elevated for the weekend ? .....what are they doing in the subway......and when will it all be finished ?

The same thing they have already done in the subway from Clark/Division to Roosevelt, replacing the wooden half ties with concrete and installing dampened tie plates. They're scheduled to be done in the next month and a half IIRC.

aaron38 Aug 23, 2008 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjk1103 (Post 3753357)
.......I rode the Blue Line in from O'Hare ......there didn't appear to be any slow zones ?! .......or was I just lucky that time ?

Well they're working like crazy. I was on the Kennedy at 2am last night, and it was an army out on the tracks, at about Montrose.


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