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BuildThemTaller Jan 25, 2021 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive (Post 9169621)
Very impressive presentation. I like the idea of a transit hub where it includes extending the CTA rail line there. It would be exciting if that happened. It would make access to the museum campus and Soldier Field a lot more easier.

It would be even more exciting if they ran the CTA along the Metra Electric lines somehow and created a new branch to the South Side.

Tcmetro Jan 25, 2021 2:25 AM

Currently, the Red Line runs every 2-3 mins for north siders and every 5-6 mins for south siders at peak. Basically, every other trip goes from Howard to 95th in the AM (and vice versa in the PM) and goes out of service instead of turning around. Cutting these trains back at 18th St makes sense operationally, but this would be a very capital intensive service. Also, to add more service to the Red Line, CTA is proposing a big yard between the Michigan/116th and 130th stations. There's going to be more need to run trains to the south side to go in and out of service. If this L stop happens it might make more sense to send the Brown, Pink, and/or Purple lines down.

I'm not a fan of the public investment they want for the development. The primary public benefit of the project is the hairbrained transit component. Amtrak does not make operational sense here, and the Grand Crossing project is going to reroute Amtrak trains to avoid the St Charles Air Line. The Chi-Line proposal makes sense but it largely uses existing infrastructure. The station will likely primarily serve Metra and South Shore riders going to Soldier Field.

My last criticism is that the podium seems to have a lot of retail space. Given how retail is trending downwards and the existence major retail districts on Michigan, State, and Roosevelt, I'm surprised that so much space has made it into the plan.

RockfordSoxFan Jan 25, 2021 2:50 AM

Retail might just work there. A few team shops for the Bears and Fire, some sports bars, restaurants & shops for McCormick conventioneers & museum campus tourists to do while here. IMO, it will work.

r18tdi Jan 25, 2021 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive (Post 9169621)
I like the idea of a transit hub where it includes extending the CTA rail line there. It would be exciting if that happened. It would make access to the museum campus and Soldier Field a lot more easier.

For sure. I kinda like the idea of hopping the Chi-Line at Ohio and Michigan and zipping out the museum campus. That would be a nice amenity for folks in River North/Streeterville.

SIGSEGV Jan 25, 2021 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 9170390)
For sure. I kinda like the idea of hopping the Chi-Line at Ohio and Michigan and zipping out the museum campus. That would be a nice amenity for folks in River North/Streeterville.

you can already hop on the 146, but it's not particularly fast!

psxvz Jan 25, 2021 10:52 PM

“With the pandemic’s economic turmoil upending state budgets around the country, it would be a challenge for any state to provide the significant amount this developer is seeking,” Pritzker spokeswoman Emily Bittner said in a statement. “The state faces tremendous challenges and our efforts will focus on rebuilding in the aftermath of the pandemic, supporting residents hardest hit by the disease and helping small businesses get back on their feet.”

The governor’s office has not seen a study that demonstrates the need for the transit hub, and city approval would be required before the state takes any action, Bittner said.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/colum...yni-story.html

ardecila Jan 26, 2021 1:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcmetro (Post 9169630)
Currently, the Red Line runs every 2-3 mins for north siders and every 5-6 mins for south siders at peak. Basically, every other trip goes from Howard to 95th in the AM (and vice versa in the PM) and goes out of service instead of turning around. Cutting these trains back at 18th St makes sense operationally, but this would be a very capital intensive service. Also, to add more service to the Red Line, CTA is proposing a big yard between the Michigan/116th and 130th stations. There's going to be more need to run trains to the south side to go in and out of service. If this L stop happens it might make more sense to send the Brown, Pink, and/or Purple lines down.

I'm not a fan of the public investment they want for the development. The primary public benefit of the project is the hairbrained transit component. Amtrak does not make operational sense here, and the Grand Crossing project is going to reroute Amtrak trains to avoid the St Charles Air Line. The Chi-Line proposal makes sense but it largely uses existing infrastructure. The station will likely primarily serve Metra and South Shore riders going to Soldier Field.

My last criticism is that the podium seems to have a lot of retail space. Given how retail is trending downwards and the existence major retail districts on Michigan, State, and Roosevelt, I'm surprised that so much space has made it into the plan.

A Red Line connection actually makes sense. I'd probably use it to run full-time express trains to the North Side - essentially making the Purple Line have 22-hour service and running it in the subway instead of the Loop. But I'd swap the North Side service so Red Line trains to 95th run express and Purple Line trains to Museum Campus run local. Evanston folks can change to the Red Line for express service, since they already have a one-seat ride to downtown with Metra.

I don't know how they can physically build a Red Line connection to One Central, though. There's not a lot of room where the South Main Line crosses over the SCAL, you'd have to tear down a decent sized condo building.

Mr Downtown Jan 26, 2021 5:10 PM

Last night's meeting is on YouTube, meaning you can watch the bullshit being ladled at 2x speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nTMAPAiLf0

aaron38 Jan 26, 2021 8:16 PM

I understand wanting to put the Entertainment District next to McCormick, but isn't everyone asking for the entertainment and food/bars to be right there at Soldier Field?
Putting residential there is just asking for trouble.

SIGSEGV Jan 26, 2021 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 9171417)
I understand wanting to put the Entertainment District next to McCormick, but isn't everyone asking for the entertainment and food/bars to be right there at Soldier Field?
Putting residential there is just asking for trouble.

Soldier Field is only used occasionally (though utilization will get better with the Fire playing there), so I don't see how it can anchor a large retail district by itself.

BuildThemTaller Jan 27, 2021 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9171572)
Soldier Field is only used occasionally (though utilization will get better with the Fire playing there), so I don't see how it can anchor a large retail district by itself.

In a normal years, there are 8 Bears games, another 17 Fire games, maybe a half dozen major concerts, a significant number of trade shows at McCormick Place, the big events in Grant Park, and then the constant stream of traffic going to the Field Museum and Adler Planetarium. It is not the worst place to place a major commercial area. That doesn't mean it will work, but it's not for lack of traffic.

SIGSEGV Jan 27, 2021 2:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller (Post 9171992)
In a normal years, there are 8 Bears games, another 17 Fire games, maybe a half dozen major concerts, a significant number of trade shows at McCormick Place, the big events in Grant Park, and then the constant stream of traffic going to the Field Museum and Adler Planetarium. It is not the worst place to place a major commercial area. That doesn't mean it will work, but it's not for lack of traffic.


Right, McCormick Place has a higher occupancy than Soldier Field, hence why it makes sense to have retail closer to there than Soldier Field. There are lots of people going to the museums, but they usually won't pass by there.

archguy Jan 27, 2021 3:28 PM

Chicago YIMBY Covers ONE Central
 
If you're looking for a detailed overview of Landmark's proposal, I'd suggest looking at Chicago YIMBY's story that went live this morning:

https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/01/lan...outh-side.html

dweeprise Jan 27, 2021 3:57 PM

So, is this most recent meeting with DPD a Part I review - or just a preliminary meeting?

VKChaz Jan 27, 2021 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9170646)
A Red Line connection actually makes sense. I'd probably use it to run full-time express trains to the North Side - essentially making the Purple Line have 22-hour service and running it in the subway instead of the Loop. But I'd swap the North Side service so Red Line trains to 95th run express and Purple Line trains to Museum Campus run local. Evanston folks can change to the Red Line for express service, since they already have a one-seat ride to downtown with Metra.

I don't know how they can physically build a Red Line connection to One Central, though. There's not a lot of room where the South Main Line crosses over the SCAL, you'd have to tear down a decent sized condo building.

I am certainly not a transit planner but I wonder if it would make any sense - or be feasible - to split the Red Line with two spurs. One over to this area and one to Streeterville that would approach Navy Pier (I believe there was always hope of better rail to that area). Trains from 95th could terminate and turn back from Streeterville and those from Howard would turn back from somewhere south of this development. Of course, there would be no rail yards at either spur.

IrishIllini Jan 27, 2021 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 9171144)
Last night's meeting is on YouTube, meaning you can watch the bullshit being ladled at 2x speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nTMAPAiLf0

:haha:

ardecila Jan 27, 2021 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKChaz (Post 9172394)
I am certainly not a transit planner but I wonder if it would make any sense - or be feasible - to split the Red Line with two spurs. One over to this area and one to Streeterville that would approach Navy Pier (I believe there was always hope of better rail to that area). Trains from 95th could terminate and turn back from Streeterville and those from Howard would turn back from somewhere south of this development. Of course, there would be no rail yards at either spur.

No, because the north end of the Red Line has more demand than the south end and there are a finite number of slots. Every train coming from 95th needs to go to Howard, but not every train from Howard needs to go to 95th. CTA already short-turns some Red Line trains at Roosevelt to account for this imbalance.

rlw777 Jan 28, 2021 12:53 AM

This isn't at all realistic but since this whole elevated rail park trend I thought it would really make South Loop boom if a tunnel was built for the CN line between Mark Twain Park and the 78 allowing the creation of a highline on the existing elevated rail. This would also allow 16th St to connect to Waldron over LSD and make it easier for anything built over the metra tracks to be connected to the neighborhood and museum campus

SIGSEGV Jan 28, 2021 1:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9172578)
No, because the north end of the Red Line has more demand than the south end and there are a finite number of slots. Every train coming from 95th needs to go to Howard, but not every train from Howard needs to go to 95th. CTA already short-turns some Red Line trains at Roosevelt to account for this imbalance.

During the 95th St renovation, half the Red Line trains went on the South Side Elevated and I don't think it caused huge congestion problems on the Dan Ryan Segment (people had to wait for 6-8 minutes for a train instead of 3-5 minutes, but that's not that big of a deal).

Tcmetro Jan 28, 2021 1:21 AM

During the 95th construction the service was scheduled at six minutes but actually ran every 8-10 minutes. Running a full service to 95th is problematic because the terminal there only has 2 tracks. The 130th extension should help fix the issue though.


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