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Those Who Squirm! Aug 31, 2013 5:40 AM

Tourmaline, great, great stuff! I didn't grow up anywhere in this picture but it looks very familiar indeed.

I'm pretty sure I've got this panorama located. From the curvature of the road this is almost certainly Hazen Drive, and this assertion is supported by a couple of other facts. First, from spot checking several build dates, it appears most of these houses were built right around 1938, which would explain the lack of landscaping--whatever the residents have managed to plant at this point hasn't had time to grow. Over towards the right, where Hazen heads more towards the background you'll see a white wooden split rail fence--I believe this is the "block" between Calle Juela Drive and Alto Cedro, and at least part of that fence is still there today, 75 years later! On the property bounded by that fence is a house that is still recognizable from Bing or Google Maps, although today there's a second house on it. In the distance that must be the SFV.

Hazen Drive is off Bowmont Drive which is off Cherokee Lane which is off Coldwater, so it's quite a ways off Coldwater, although that's still the only way to reach it.

ETA: Until about 1974, you could also reach Hazen from Mulholland via the upper end of Bowmont. This section of Bowmont has been marked "Private Road" for as long as I can remember, but it wasn't until about that year that a gate was installed to block through traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourmaline (Post 6250499)


Flyingwedge Aug 31, 2013 6:58 AM

Don't call it a tunnel
 
There's an abandoned tunnel, or "concrete structure," under the northernmost runway at LAX. I believe it was begun as part of a subterranean roadway that would have connected Lincoln Blvd. just north of LAX with Main Street in El Segundo.

I haven't been able to find a single photo of the tunnel or contemporary news story about it, and the folks now at LAX aren't especially anxious to talk about it. One airport official denied that it even existed, despite being told by a lady that she'd visited the tunnel under construction while on a field trip in school!

But the tunnel is there, and here's LAX's description of its history, condition, and partial location:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18e5027c.jpg
LAX SPAS Final EIR Jan 2013 (big PDF file) -- http://www.lawa.org/uploadedfiles/sp...2013-01-25.pdf

Here's how an LAX employee described the tunnel:
"The tunnel is actually four to six car lanes wide and is only accessible by a man hole. You have to drop down about 10 feet into the man hole then carefully climb down a small re-bar ladder another 20-30 feet. Once in the tunnel it is pitch black, a dirt floor, Pepsi cans from the 60’s scattered, and very cold. When you reach the end, there it is a giant concrete wall where they had stopped construction. The tunnel undergoes periodic inspections for structural integrity and after every earthquake."
From: http://www.think-dash.com/2012/03/in...x-airport.html

Well yeah OK but we'd like to know more. I think we know roughly where the not-a tunnel is. Here's the area in 1953:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e99b6bf.jpg
Historic Aerials.com -- http://www.historicaerials.com/

Left to right across the center of the photo is the Argo Drainage Channel. Lincoln Blvd. runs from top left to lower right and crosses the channel over a bridge. The street that ends in a cul-de-sac near the center of the photo is Colegio Drive; parallel and to the left of Colegio is Loyola Blvd. Ninety-fourth Street ends at Lincoln just east of Colegio.


1963; Lincoln has been re-routed around the north side of the expanded airport but the old bridge remains:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2763a6e.jpg
LMU Digital Library -- http://digitalcollections.lmu.edu/cd.../id/1409/rec/1

1972; was the disturbed area between the Colegio cul-de-sac (where some homes have been removed) and the old alignment of Lincoln a staging area for the aborted tunnel project, or was it where the road leading to the tunnel would have gone? Or both?:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps00fad8f0.jpg


2011 aerial view; the arrow points to the site of the old Lincoln bridge over the Argo channel, and the X marks the rump stub of 94th Street. South of the Argo channel on the LAX north airfield, Runway 24R is at the top, with 24L below; the service road must be the prominent light gray line between 24R and the Argo channel. Loyola Blvd. has been rerouted and now connects with a new major east-west street, Westchester Parkway:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8692c54f.jpg
Google Earth

How the white-roofed condos/apartments got built after the houses surrounding them were torn out because they were too close to the airport is something I still haven't figured out.


If the tunnel stops 270 feet north of the north edge of Runway 24L and goes north for 722 feet -- 280 feet north of the north edge of 24R -- would that really be at the service road? Both runways are 150 feet wide, if that helps anyone who wants to take a stab at this. Knowing exactly where the tunnel is east/west-wise would be nice too.

Oh and here's the site of the old Lincoln Bridge in 2013 (and if he'd held still instead of running away, you'd see a fox in the photo as well). Sorry but LAX has a fine mesh on their fence:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps804eedc0.jpg
Photo by me

Krell58 Aug 31, 2013 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6250649)

How the white-roofed condos/apartments got built after the houses surrounding them were torn out because they were too close to the airport is something I still haven't figured out.

Sounds like a bit of corruption.:yes:

CityBoyDoug Aug 31, 2013 1:32 PM

Corruption in Los Angeles? No way!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krell58 (Post 6250656)
Sounds like a bit of corruption.:yes:

LA claims "Eminent Domain", condemns the houses and then sells the property to developers for a huge profit. You can even see the old streets right next to the new apartment buildings.

Wig-Wag Aug 31, 2013 3:09 PM

Godzilla, pursuant to your interest in electric rail lines running into the San Fernando Valley via the canyons, the Pacific Electric's San Fernando Valley Line was the only one.

Southern Pacific had a right of way up Beverly Glen, which may be the source of the name High Bridge as noted by Those Who Squirm. However this was never constructed.

Pacific Electric also had a line into Bronson Canyon to service their quarry there, but that is as far as it went. The remnants of the quarry still exist in the form of the caves used in many Hollywood Movies.

The only other line that might remotely qualify would have been PE's Glendale-Burbank line which terminated at the extreme eastern end of the Valley, in Burbank.

There was indeed a Coldwater Canyon Line operated by the PE, which is described in Ira L. Swett's Lines of Pacific Electric-Western District as follows: "ROUTE: From Santa Monica Boulevard and Rodeo Drive via Rodeo Drive to Sunset Boulevard, and on Sunset Boulevard to Beverly Drive; all single track; total length 1.38 miles. HISTORY: This line was constructed by the Los Angeles Pacific in 1907 and was standard gauged the following year. PE took over the line in 1911 and operated it until abandonment, which occurred on January 15, 1923. OPERATION: For most of its life this line was a shuttle service, running from the PE Beverly Hills Station to the Beverly Hills Hotel".

Cheers,
Jack

ethereal_reality Aug 31, 2013 4:37 PM

Found among a group of photographs.

It looks as if the building on the right is in the final days of construction.
http://imageshack.us/a/img835/9479/r7e2.jpg
ebay

I should probably know these buildings....but I can't place them right now.
__

ethereal_reality Aug 31, 2013 4:41 PM

-here are a couple more.

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/7682/06v7.jpg
ebay





http://imageshack.us/a/img46/7329/7n3o.jpg
ebay
__

KevinW Aug 31, 2013 9:19 PM

Thanks for the post, Flyingwedge. As a resident of Westchester, loved the info about the tunnel. If they do push the runways north as planned, Lincoln Blvd. is supposed to go back to it's old route, through the tunnel.

These pictures also hold a bit of my favorite Westchester trivia. If you look at the 1972 shot, you'll see the Westchester Golf Course north of Lincoln.

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps00fad8f0.jpg

In the 2011 picture, you'll see that in the 80's the Westchester Pkwy, which parallels the North Runway, was built and cut off three holes of the course. For the next thirty years or so, the Westchester Course was only fifteen holes.

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8692c54f.jpg
Google Earth

In 2009, the Golf course was given the land in the upper right hand corner, under the compass. After all that time, they got back their three holes and once again became an 18 hole course.

belmont bob Aug 31, 2013 9:48 PM

1929 - Santa Fe Station with what is said to be the conveniently close Green Hotel in the background.
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


Can't see it? Go here: http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/c...8/id/301/rec/9



Godzilla, this is without question the Green Hotel in the background. The three arched window to the left of the trees would be the top floor of the original hotel building that was on the east side of Raymond Ave. The train station was located directly south-east of the hotel's south-east corner.

Godzilla Aug 31, 2013 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmont bob (Post 6251018)
1929 - Santa Fe Station with what is said to be the conveniently close Green Hotel in the background.
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


Can't see it? Go here: http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/c...8/id/301/rec/9



Godzilla, this is without question the Green Hotel in the background. The three arched window to the left of the trees would be the top floor of the original hotel building that was on the east side of Raymond Ave. The train station was located directly south-east of the hotel's south-east corner.





Thank you for the confirmation. Unfortunately, I am getting to the point where I don't always trust my own eyes. Meant to change the post to be more definitive and do so now.

Surprising that there aren't more images of the Trains so close to the Green. If laundry were dried on the premises, smoke-belching trains were probably not the most popular sight for the laundry staff. :rolleyes:

KCET's site had a nice retrospective of the Raymond Hotel and the trains servicing it. Also touched on the Green Hotel. Like Norma Desmond, just wish the pictures stopped getting smaller. :haha: http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...-pasadena.html Some images below are also used in the write-up, but I can't recall seeing them on this thread.

I do my best to avoid gratuitous reposts of the same image, unless it is done for a specific purpose, such as context.






http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/sspl_tracks.jpg







1887 - Raymond in background. Hide the white linens!
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046629.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046629.jpg






Circa 1985 - "Tally Ho carriages parked in front of the Raymond Hotel, in Pasadena. Carriages take hotel guests to Mount Lowe and back." Must have been a hell of ride before the Lowe installed some tracks.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036192.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036192.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036192.jpg






Undated. Art students sketching the Raymond Station.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics14/00006737.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics14/00006737.jpg





Raymond Hotel Station - 1944
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046625.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046625.jpg






1890 - Pasadena
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics31/00035419.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics31/00035419.jpg





1900 - What this place needs is an elevated cycleway!
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036140.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036140.jpg


http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036139.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036139.jpg





One for the road?

1924 - Raymond South Pasadena Electric Station with "tracks leading to Fair Oaks Ave."
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics14/00006997.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics14/00006997.jpg

Retired_in_Texas Sep 1, 2013 2:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6248953)
note to self: MUST....SEEK....OUT....TUNNEL.
__

When Kay (the owner of the theater) gets back from France I'll ask her if she has any photos of the sealed end of the tunnel in the theater. Though I've seen it, I don't have any pictures of it. There is quite a "labyrinth" of dressing and prop rooms in the basement of the theater, which should be expected given when it was built it was intended for live theater.

It is sometimes difficult to follow the history of the theater given when Sid Grauman (Grauman's Chinese) acquired it he saw fit to rename it the "El Capitan" and was able to do so because the original El Capitan was renamed the Hollywood Paramount. There is considerable confusion with historical events of both "El Capitans" because of that name change.

Note: Sid Grauman held an interest in the original El Capitan until the time it was sold to Paramount.

Retired_in_Texas Sep 1, 2013 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6251061)
Thank you for the confirmation. Unfortunately, I am getting to the point where I don't always trust my own eyes. Meant to change the post to be more definitive and do so now.

Surprising that there aren't more images of the Trains so close to the Green. If laundry were dried on the premises, smoke-belching trains were probably not the most popular sight for the laundry staff. :rolleyes:

KCET's site had a nice retrospective of the Raymond Hotel and the trains servicing it. Also touched on the Green Hotel. Like Norma Desmond, just wish the pictures stopped getting smaller. :haha: http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...-pasadena.html Some images below are also used in the write-up, but I can't recall seeing them on this thread.

I do my best to avoid gratuitous reposts of the same image, unless it is done for a specific purpose, such as context.


1887 - Raymond in background. Hide the white linens!
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046629.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046629.jpg

Any old railroad buffs here that can identify the nature of the pictured locomotive. It's a weird variation of what is called a "Saddle Tank" locomotive. This one is a bit strange given it only has a single drive wheel on each side (appears to be a 2-2-2 wheel arrangement) and no visible tender area for whatever kind of fuel it burned.

Tetsu Sep 1, 2013 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6250577)
It's probably been mentioned as often as Sister Aimee railed against sin. Thaddeus had a residence at 923 Columbia, South Pasadena. As best as I can tell, it's still there! (As a side note, Thaddeus' granddaughter, Florence Lowe, grew up in the house. Frances is better known as Pancho Barnes, early aviatrix and founding member of the Happy Bottom Riding Club, Muroc - aka Edwards Air Force Base.

Another thing about Lowe, Thaddeus, that has probably been mentioned but overlooked (by me) was Lowe's connection with Abraham Lincoln. Thaddeus's experimentation with Balloons garnered Lincoln's attention. Lincoln's note (below) offers a tiny glimpse into the story. Lowe is also credited with being an ostensible founder of Cal Tech. Lowe observatory?

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...0&w=1024&h=736

Yes! This great Victorian is still there, I pass by it all the time. According to Winter & Gebhard's "A Guide To Architecture In Los Angeles & Southern California," Lowe lived in this house while his own mansion was being built around the corner on Orange Grove Boulevard. Later in its history it was owned by the Gertmenian family (my mom used to work at the South Pas post office and chatted with the house's owner on several occasions). Supposedly it had been knocked off its foundation after an earthquake (1987 Whittier quake I think) and was in a so-so state of repair for many years, but it looks like it's now in the process of being fully restored. It's been used in a few movies too. I specifically remember it appearing in an episode of "The Wonder Years."

GaylordWilshire Sep 1, 2013 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 4796321)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u...2520PM.bmp.jpgUCLA Special Collections

I came across this 1931 shot of the notorious deputy D.A. "handsome Dave" Clark--second from right--strolling southward on Broadway alongside the Hall of Justice (note the union-jack railing at left). In the background is the south portal of the Broadway tunnel. This picture looked familiar to me--I went to my bookcase and found that I'd seen a cropped version of it before in another must-read for L.A. noir fans: A Bright and Guilty Place by Richard Rayner (Doubleday 2009).


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p...2520PM.bmp.jpgLAPL

In working on a story about a house on Wilshire Boulevard built by famed trial attorney William I. Gilbert, I looked back on Noirish for an ancient post of mine about his notorious client deputy D.A. Dave Clark. (I found a broken picture link, which I fixed--as can be seen at top.) Anyway, another of Gilbert's many high-profile clients was Alexander Pantages--up on rape charges in 1931, he's seen above at left with Gilbert. The house W. I. Gilbert built with his fees on Wilshire Boulevard still stands. Its history is here: http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...2520PM.bmp.jpgGSV

Lwize Sep 1, 2013 6:15 PM

OK folks, it's sleuth time!

Here's an address dating back to the 40's - Vibratone, the Leslie rotating speaker company that gave Hammond Organs their distinctive sound.

I can't find the address on Google Maps - no 5400 block of Victoria Ave. Has it disappeared? It seems to be residential, but who know? You decide!

http://larry.wizegallery.com/VWV/vibratone.jpg
(screen cap from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quE0ElIAwZE)

Thanks.

GaylordWilshire Sep 1, 2013 7:45 PM

:previous:


There is indeed a 5400 block of South Victoria... right where it should be, between 54th and 57th streets.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5...2520PM.bmp.jpgGSV

Apparently the current owners had Google blur its image, but not Bing's:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...2520PM.bmp.jpgBing Maps

Hard to make out, but here's the number on the curb:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-a...2520PM.bmp.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h...415%2520PM.jpg

Lwize Sep 1, 2013 9:22 PM

Thanks. I guess it was the "South" part that threw off Google, since 5435 Victoria leaves you elsewhere. So the headquarters for the company must have been Leslie's home.

Tourmaline Sep 1, 2013 9:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6251518)



GW, read your entry concerning this property with interest. It was the caption for one of your included illustrations that made me wonder if the Times employed proofreaders in 1914, or if Banker Holliday was an early proponent of Dr. Wheeler's "treatments" :uhh:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BRploIC1Vd...housevers2.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BRploIC1Vd...housevers2.jpg

GaylordWilshire Sep 1, 2013 10:01 PM

:previous:

Perhaps some wag back in 1914 just wanted to see if anyone was reading the real estate section... and 99 years later, they were....

GaylordWilshire Sep 1, 2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lwize (Post 6251628)
Thanks. I guess it was the "South" part that threw off Google, since 5435 Victoria leaves you elsewhere. So the headquarters for the company must have been Leslie's home.


It can be a little confusing sometimes--as with a number of streets beginning their runs south below 1st Street, since there is no "North Victoria" there really is no South Victoria--

It seems that 5435 wasn't Leslie's home but rather a man named Brittain's...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...2520PM.bmp.jpg
from: http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...opic=29948.150


From http://www.theatreorgans.com/grounds/docs/rumors.html
"The original name of the Leslie Speaker was "Vibratone." Leslie Speakers were also called "Brittain Speakers." In 1941, Don Leslie formed a disastrous partnership with one Lou Brittain and early nameplates identify the manufacturer as the "Brittain Sound Equipment Co." This partnership was dissolved after the war."


The 1940 census for 5435 Victoria reveals a radio salesman named... Louis Brittain:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X...225%2520PM.jpg


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