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GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2012 3:20 AM


Very interesting, e_r. Of course I've read all there is to read about the case, all the crackpot books included, and have taken a look at all the gruesome pictures. I guess my feeling has been that they are pretty readily accessible elsewhere, that it's already a cottage industry, and I guess I thought that the Times article I posted below is perhaps lurid enough for Noirish, and interesting in that there are so many early details in it, before the case became such a cause célèbre. As far as the famous severed pics and the autopsy shots go... I do cringe when I see them, and it does seem like a gross continuing violation of the victim. And I wonder where the architecture angle would be.... but, majority rules on whether they'd be ok here. Perhaps just links to them?

EDIT I just read the above and think I sound mighty priggish! Maybe even prudish! Anyway, as I said, majority rules. Also... I think Harry Chandler did it.

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2012 3:34 AM

There really isn't an 'architectural''s the 'noirish' angle I was thinking about G_W.

I like your idea that links could be used for the most gruesome photographs.

rcarlton Jan 16, 2012 3:44 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5551422)

Someone at cinema treasures mentioned that the Jergins Building relics were stored in a lot along San Francisco Avenue. So I deciding to do some sleuthing on google-street-views.

I think I see the lot.
google street view

Yep, there they are.
google street views

I pictured the lot being chock-full of hundreds of pieces of ornament.....this is just a sorry handful. :(


Checked March 7, 2011 images...nothing left, just scattered debris in an empty lot.:(

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2012 3:46 AM

Are you sure rcarlton? I thought the views I posted were also 2011.

Steve Hoffman Jan 16, 2012 3:53 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5551629)
Re:Black Dahlia Murder

:previous: Since it's the 65th anniversary of Elizabeth Short's murder should we finally delve into this horrible crime.
So far on 'noirish Los Angeles' we've been very cautious concerning the Black Dahlia case. No explicit crime scene photos have been autopsy photographs have been posted. We've pretty much steered clear of these extremely graphic photographs.

What is your opinion G_W? Should we post the photos? Would it tarnish the thread? Would it be disrespectful to Elizabeth Short?
What do the rest of you think?

With so many 'sleuths' and L. A. history aficionados on this thread perhaps we could discover something if some of these photographs were posted. You never know.


Don't post those terrible pics here. Too graphic. This is a wonderful thread, let's make sure it stays like that.

rcarlton Jan 16, 2012 4:03 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5551672)
Are you sure rcarlton? I thought the views I posted were also 2011.

I'm sorry...empty lot. Posted a link to the photo above.:rant:

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2012 4:08 AM

I found these interesting ads from 1907 on ebay the other day.

I checked my 1947 map and found a Miramonte Blvd. that runs from Slausen Ave. on the north to Firestone Blvd. (aka Manchester Blvd.)
on the south.

rcarlton Jan 16, 2012 4:23 AM

Elizabeth Short's body was found in what is now someones front yard on South Norton between Coliseum and 39th Street.

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2012 4:25 AM

Detail of the 1907 Miramonte Park ad.

Mr. Spaulding's office was on the second floor of the impressive H.W. Hellman building at Spring & Fourth.

The H.W. Hellman Building still stands at Spring & Fourth. :)
google street view

below: His office on the second floor would have been level with the decorative 'cartouches' that display the initials H.W.H.
google street view detail

I love going back in time like this. :)


3940dxer Jan 16, 2012 6:23 AM

Re the gruesome Black Dahlia photos...

Maybe it's partly because I feel haunted by the Delmer Dobbs story that I posted today, but I think I would rather not see them here.

Fab Fifties Fan Jan 16, 2012 7:19 AM

WOW! Page 300!
A huge thank you again to ethereal_reality for starting this thread that has become such a treasured and respected resource on Los Angeles area history!:multibow

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2012 1:07 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5551689)
I found these interesting ads from 1907 on ebay the other day.

I checked my 1947 map and found a Miramonte Blvd. that runs from Slausen Ave. on the north to Firestone Blvd. (aka Manchester Blvd.)
on the south. Street View

Three blocks wide, running south from Slauson... alleys behind the lots, as indicated on Google maps... between Compton Ave and the Metro Blue Line.... I had to go look... and I'm wanting the taller gabled house at right to be the same one in the 1907 picture. The just-planted palms in that picture could be the soaring trees that line Miramonte today (the rows are much more intact behind the Google camera). This is Miramonte Blvd looking north from East 66th St.

I love the perennial hype of real estate ads... could you really see mountains from all the way down on 66th Street? And could you really get to downtown L.A. in 12 minutes?

twobarbreak Jan 16, 2012 3:26 PM

Diana Ballroom?
I'm loving everyone's detective work so much, that i'm curious if anyone knows about this.

There was a place called Diana Ballroom in the late 1930's at 4067 W. Pico Blvd.

This is what i came up with from Google, i can't make out the top of the sign and it's hard to believe it would still be there.

The Trianon Ballroom at 2800 Firestone Blvd. was torn down as well just a few years ago.

All these old Ballrooms have disappeared =(

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2012 4:27 PM

:previous: Street View

The top of the sign says "Catch One"... as in Jewel's Catch One. No mention on its website of its time as the Diana Ballroom, but there is this:

"The history of Jewel’s Catch One is legendary. This is the club where Madonna held her CD release party. “Beaches” starring Bette Midler, Keenen Ivory Wayans’s, “I’m Gonna Get You Sucker”, “BAP” (Black American Princess) starring Hallie Berry, Angela Basset in “I Tina”, and Julia Roberts in “Pretty Woman”, several episodes of “Cold Case”, and numerous TV shows and videos have also been shot on the premises. The Catch has also played host to numerous famous celebrities and politicians, who have graced us with their presence."

The intersection of Pico and Norton is a rare intact one... across Norton is this complementary confection... Street View

...and across Pico from the two buildings above is the great Forum Theater... Street View

...which we've covered here before:

FredH Jan 16, 2012 5:50 PM

Black Dahlia Murder Photos
My two cents:

The photos of Elizabeth Short are easy to find on Google Images, so that no new ground will be broken by posting them here. No need to offend people who are visiting the site and don't want to see them.

twobarbreak Jan 16, 2012 7:53 PM


Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5552059)
:previous: Street View

The top of the sign says "Catch One"... as in Jewel's Catch One. No mention on its website of its time as the Diana Ballroom, but ....

I can see the "Catch One" sign on top, but on the side, where it says dancing nightly, just above that in what appears to be Neon as well.

and i just found it in my 1943 Telephone directory it's still open for business as, Diana Ballroom Strangers Social Club at the above listed address.

Looking at these google map pics, mistake me if i'm wrong, but the age of that building Looks like it is the place.

(the story behind Diana Ballroom is that, it was where all best dancers went. The Manager Ray Rand started a dance team using the young dancers, and they went on to appear in many films. This is where dance directors came in search for talent, such as Nick Castle, Louis Dapron, Judy Garland with her then boyfriend Ray Hirsch went there to social dance, because it was away from the more popular and expensive places, which tended to be full of squares. These Ray Rand dancers were just young Jitterbugs, but because of the Diana Ballroom and Ray Rand, they traveled, toured as far as Australia, did Feature Films...and many of these dancers would continue to be friends their whole lives. The last living member just passed away HAL Takier 1917-2012. But You can still catch a handful of 1930's and 40's dancers still swinging away every other Sunday at Golden Sails in Long Beach on PCH).

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2012 8:18 PM


umm... both the sign on the top of the building and the top of the "DANCING NIGHTLY" blade sign say "Catch One"... as does the vertical sign on the west side of the building at street level.

minkykat Jan 16, 2012 9:05 PM

I agree that there is no need to post the pics of poor Beth Short post mort.

However, one could still dive into the mystery of where did she go after walking away from the Biltmore. Moreover, where would the murder have taken place?

Donald Wolfe's books holds that this took place in a bungalow apt. at 836 Catalina, not far from the Ambassador Hotel.

I'm gonna head that way this coming Sunday and take some snaps.

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2012 10:53 PM

I just ran across this shot of the exterior of the remodeled Knickerbocker...


Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5190536)

For more, here's the full earlier post featuring the hotel, starring William Frawley and the dress designer Irene...with cameos by Gary Cooper and... Elvis:

rick m Jan 16, 2012 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 5550739)
I read about these in the L.A. Times Calendar section yesterday, both look good.

11.13.11 - 02.27.12

In 1947, the tabloid photographer known as Weegee relocated from New York City to Los Angeles. In moving west, he abandoned the grisly crime scenes for which he was best known and trained his camera instead on Hollywood stars, strippers, costume shops, and naked mannequins, sometimes distorted through trick lenses and multiple exposures. “Now I could really photograph the subjects I liked,” said Weegee of his life in Los Angeles. “I was free.”

Naked Hollywood: Weegee in Los Angeles is the first museum exhibition devoted to the work Weegee produced in Southern California.

In addition to roughly 200 photographs, many of which have never before been shown or reproduced, the exhibition encompasses Weegee's related work as an author, filmmaker, photo-essayist, and genius self-promoter. Following the photographer's lead, the exhibition documents the lurid, irresistible undersides of stardom, fandom, commerce, and publicity in mid-century Los Angeles. Weegee's 1953 photo-book Naked Hollywood provides the title and point of departure for the exhibition.


Becoming Los Angeles (that's a working title) will open just ahead of the museum's one hundredth birthday and travel through 500 years of LA history, "from European contact to its rise as a global capital," according to a press release. The 14,000 square foot exhibit will take up four galleries in both the 1913 and 1920s buildings.The press release says that the NHM has been collecting LA artifacts "for generations," and has pieces from old LA families like the Coronels, Temples, and del Valles.
A Mexican sword, Walt Disney's "Steamboat Willie" rig, and more.

Here's a little about what Becoming Los Angeles will look like: "a visually striking canopy will symbolize the sweep of history and lead visitors through the exhibit's major sections or historical eras: the pre-Spanish landscape; Mission Era; Mexican Rancho Era; the early years of the American Period; the emergence of a new American city in the late 19th and early 20th centuries; and L.A. as a global city of the 21st century. This canopy will touch down at four points, triggering the walkthrough experience from once section to the next. Iconic objects at these trigger points include a cross from Mission San Gabriel and an inscribed sword from the Mexican war of independence. Other important objects in the exhibit include a wooden oil well pump from a 1920s Los Angeles city oil field, and Walt Disney's animation stand that was built in his uncle's L.A. garage in 1923. (Disney used it to film "Steamboat Willie," the first cartoon released that featured Mickey Mouse.)"

The exhibit is set to open in December. The museum turns 100 in 2013.

(G_W, maybe one of these will coincide with one of your L.A.visits?)

Had a "Voila" moment in Weegee's exhibit- Several images in one room had ironic juxtaposition of Colonic signage on buildings with other topical signs that obviously amused him greatly- And in a case was an opened scrapbook of Weegee's material dealing with downtown -- Prominently opened to a full page of Colonic businesses in a 1940(?) yellowpages- The largest advert was for the Sultan Spa - address -607 So.Hill St.-just steps away from Pershing Square.. This became the rollicking Sultan Health Club (!) in the mid-50s- Colonics long abandoned and replaced by some 65 plywood cubicles to spend the nites in (2.50 a pop) Gloryholes present in most units- Later 2 vice officers spent lots of evenings therein recording beaucoup sexytimes-and conducting plenty of arrests. Weegee's unique clipping (no other such yelllowpages @ LAPL ) informs me that multiple showers and lavatories would have remained for usage in what became a bathouse for the scene - Stairway to this basement is still to be spotted immediately inside the doors of the #607 doorway-Thank you Weegee for clearing this detail up for my overactive mind.

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