Retail is transient, the golf course and condos are not

The indicator is what is coming not what is there a 15 story luxury condo would precipitate a turnover in those retail uses

Something has to be first otherwise it’s just stagnant or decline

ok.

so you're spending $1m or maybe more on a condo. would you view that location as a good investment? I wouldn't. It's a seedy corner. I don't think this works for luxury buyers. The corner may change but until it does it's hard to market that product at that location. they're wanting to sell them now, not in ten years.

I would be pretty shocked to see 1 mm dollar condos biggus, maybe 500k at the most

Listings in Crystal Point are never under 1mm and anything on Country Club property I assume will be at least at that same product level. I could be wrong on that, but my point is if it's at that level that location doesn't work for me and I don't think it works for other potential buyers, either.

Seedy? Not really.

it's subjective. I think it's seedy.

Crystal Point trades from the $400k's up -- mainly because they're large condo's (2,000 sf +). The majority of the units still have the original finishes from 1990 when they were built.

I'd much rather pay $300k - $600k (assumed price range) to live in a well-designed new building. That neighborhood is improving quickly.

This corner isn't seedy, it's better than most of phoenix.

Demo notice up at the McKinley Court apartments. Finally some movement here at the next Metrowest project...

https://i.imgur.com/q246EW7l.jpg

(Obviously) differences of opinion go beyond this thread.

Neighbors concerned over downtown Phoenix condo proposition
Sep 6, 2018 By Fay Fredricks/ABC15

Wow - here come the NIMBYs.

Anyone complaining about a 15 story building going up within 1/2 mile of dozens of others in the middle of the 5th largest city in the country needs to just pick up and move somewhere like Peeples Valley or Wickenberg. Can guarantee you no one will put up high rises there.

This project could be a great first step. Can you imagine condo towers lining the country club? Would have a neat Central Park like effect - and I would imagine it would only BOOST property values.

Crazy.

Neighborhood opposition never ceases to amaze me. At Wednesday's city council meeting, homeowners in South Phoenix were complaining about two-story houses proposed next to their one-story houses.

I agree. More and more height in that location is awesome. Don't like it, move!

I completely agree. We're talking 164' here, not 300'. This would be about 10' lower than Portland on the Park 2 which is not all that tall. And it's actually well within 1/2 mile of the nearest light rail station, barely even a 1/4 mile to the nearest tower which is 397'. I can walk the distance in about 8-9 minutes. Cities such as Atlanta, LA, Denver and many more cities have much taller high-rises that are spread out much further from the Downtown core than we have. I am still amazed at the pushback this city gets when proposing a mediocre 15 story tower that is not even close to comparably tall by today's standards. In any other city, this would not be much of an issue if at all. If this were 30 stories tall, I could understand a negative response. But again, we're talking 15 stories. Phoenix needs to let go of this high-rise phobia and let the progress develop as it should.

I hear so many complaints about sprawl, but then the same people complain when a project with some height and density is proposed. We can't have it both ways. This city's population continues to grow and there is no sign of it slowing down. We need more taller, denser developments. The alternative is more sprawl and more cars which we just don't need. SMH

Wow. Talk about being petty. :sly:

If you live in the central core of the city you shouldn't be able to complain about height, and by central core I mean Downtown, over past the airport to north Tempe, upt to old town then back along Camelback to I-17, That rectangle is the core of the Metro area, if you dont want height move to the burbs.

I don't think this Country Club project is real, btw. They should have gone with the PUD to zone it, but that would be around a much more coherent project, like one with plans and renderings and everything. There's no site plan or anything they're proposing for which a traditional rezoning might stipulate conformity.

Given that these shoddy zoning applications have never been for real projects, I think it's just an attempt to entitle and possibly flip some land to raise money.

Probably not. I don't expect this project to really go that far. But it's the asinine attitude any time someone proposes something here that's not a single level house that drives me nuts. Many projects have died because of the threats of community action, lawsuits, etc. These NIMBY attitudes are now even looking to affect future light rail developments. When is the part of the community that actually wants these type of developments going to finally stand up instead of letting the few dictate what is built? I'm sure a lot of prospective developers and businesses see this attitude which is why a lot goes to business parks instead of the core.

The sad thing is - there was less resistance to the 10-15 story Nationwide campus buildings in Grayhawk than to this project is seems. Maybe that’s why they chose to build out there vs invest in a good size tower downtown or midtown...

No they went out there because downtown doesn't have the address glamour worthy of paying the extra cost for the land and taller buildings downtown. Not to mention Insurance companies are fans of large suburban campuses over large downtown towers. This isnt a HQ