SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/index.php)
-   General Development (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   CHICAGO | The 78 Site (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=233449)

left of center May 11, 2018 1:33 PM

I'd like to see a few more connections to the street grid with this development. Why no connection to 14th? It would provide another outlet to Clark. The way it is right now, 15th St would be getting slammed with all the traffic that wants to exit into the South Loop, and its not like Roosevelt will be any better since its already a traffic nightmare during rush periods. Wells only works if you want to go north to the Loop or south to Chinatown, neither of those really being an escape from traffic.

west-town-brad May 11, 2018 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 8184469)
Most cities have decided that displacing the poor into isolated areas isn't fair. Poor people should also be able to live by riverwalks, parks, the lake. I think it's great.

who is being displaced? this land is vacant?

but man being poor in Chicago is great. free/low cost housing, higher probability of access to the top selective enrollment schools for the kids, cheap public transit, lots of public parks, elected officials that pander to you for votes...

Buckman821 May 11, 2018 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 8184469)
Most cities have decided that displacing the poor into isolated areas isn't fair. Poor people should also be able to live by riverwalks, parks, the lake. I think it's great.

I live in a yuppie DINK household with two college educated and relatively highly paid professionals and I cannot afford to live in a development like this. Somehow my life goes on.

Just wondering who will ensure that I can afford to live here...anyone, anyone? Pleaase...my life is so miserable in my vintage housing out in the neighborhoods....heeeellppp meeeee

rgolch May 11, 2018 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8184363)
If they can actually pull off something like those renderings, that would be pretty awesome.

Much cooler from a design standpoint and in layout and incorporation of public spaces than what Magellan did over at Lakeshore East.

Ok, so sorry to ask a dumb question.....

Obviously, all the renderings of the buildings and such are conceptual at this point, correct? I mean, I’m sure they have a general idea of a master plan. But hammered out, detailed plans of individual highrises are a ways off, right?

I ask because the images posted seemed too avant-garde for Related Midwest.

the urban politician May 11, 2018 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wierdaaron (Post 8184264)
Fake lasalle street is lame. A completely isolated jog of a street people use for wayfinding is cruel, though entirely in character for lasalle. Hopefully nobody will have a street address on it.

Like the wells connector, though. That will make a straight shot from Cermack/Chinatown to downtown via wentworth, opening a whole new arterial supply of humans to an atrophied area.

Hopefully riverwalk will connect with the neighboring projects to the north, then eventually to the Riverwalk itself.

Name is dumb. Hopefully placeholder. I’m allergic to “The ###” titles.

Also think how they’re handiling the elevation changes from street level at Roosevelt on the NE corner of the site. Stairways to tight, ramps too long.

Where’s the IKEA go?

Welcome back! You haven’t posted in a long time

sentinel May 11, 2018 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgolch (Post 8184502)
Ok, so sorry to ask a dumb question.....

Obviously, all the renderings of the buildings and such are conceptual at this point, correct? I mean, I’m sure they have a general idea of a master plan. But hammered out, detailed plans of individual highrises are a ways off, right?

I ask because the images posted seemed too avant-garde for Related Midwest.

Perhaps, but Related has pretty deep pockets and these buildings seem more fully fleshed-out than what Magellan had initially proposed for their (also SOM-designed) master plan for Lakeshore East.

When the masterplan proposal for LSE was first released back in 2001, it was more a conceptual idea than a solid proposal - it was a lovely watercolor depicting the relative massing of the building components without much detail.

For the 78 however, perhaps Related is much further along in the process and willing to building a portion of the building shown on spec, rather than waiting to find tenants, at least for the commercial components. That doesn't mean that designs of some of the buildings won't change over the years, but so far, everything looks more realistic than not...at least relative to LSE.

sentinel May 11, 2018 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8184196)
I cobbled together an annotated site plan so you guys can better understand:

https://i.imgur.com/Bb0FBnZ.jpg

Looks good - one of the things I like most about this development is not just the park (which is wonderful), but how the buildings are tiered - the shorter ones are closest to the river, so that visually, your view is not blocked by a 30 story building right next to the riverwalk.

sentinel May 11, 2018 2:18 PM

Nice aerial view of how the development relates to the rest of the CBD:

http://www.78chicago.com/assets/img/...e-vision-1.jpg
http://www.78chicago.com/

ardecila May 11, 2018 2:43 PM

Whoa, so much to unpack! Seems like a lot of shrewd decisions to provide the needed infrastructure at a reasonable (or at least slightly less astronomical) cost.

Previous plans for the site have been mainly auto-oriented, with transit an afterthought. Those plans included a whole street grid for the site (albeit totally disconnected from the east). This one forgoes the grid for, basically, just two main streets plus a short link at 15th. One of those streets, Wells, will even be constructed entirely by the city, taking it off Related’s project list. I wonder if Related is “finding” money for the Red Line station and the Metra relocation by being super efficient with new streets? I don’t see a potential congestion problem - earlier plans for the site had more mileage of streets total, but still only three access points. This one has four, and seems to suggest that limited parking will be provided.

On the rail side, I’ll be interested to see what happens. I’m fairly sure the Red Line tracks are on an incline here, which will make a new station difficult to construct. It also looks like the station box would slot in under some of the DPII townhouses on 15th, so those would have to be purchased and demolished. CTA does have a ventilation structure at 15th/Clark, so maybe that can be repurposed somehow to save a little money. I wonder if Related will seek TIF money or other public funding for the new station.

The Metra solution (enclosing the tracks inside the podiums of buildings) is interesting. That way the Metra “tunnel” is paid for one piece at a time, as each building is constructed. At first glance I assumed Metra would never go for that, but they did allow River Point (and the rest of the buildings above Union Station) which was a very similar concept. :shrug:

Lastly - I like the Crescent Park idea, although it’s ironic our civic forefathers spent so much time moving the channel precisely to allow for a regular grid of streets to be built here. As a developer, it’s smart... the former channel was filled with terrible material, it is awful to build foundations or even streets upon. I have seen the geotech reports to prove it. With the park concept, they are turning a liability into an asset.

Baronvonellis May 11, 2018 3:39 PM

Wait, I thought Amazon HQ2 is going in here lol!

Looks awesome! It's like new developments in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. Which is great, the ones there are amazing so hopefully it will be of a similar quality that the renderings show!

That's crazy that they are going to have to demo some midrises and buildings along State for the redline stop though.

Mr Downtown May 11, 2018 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8184574)
I’m fairly sure the Red Line tracks are on an incline here, which will make a new station difficult to construct. It also looks like the station box would slot in under some of the DPII townhouses on 15th, so those would have to be purchased and demolished. CTA does have a ventilation structure at 15th/Clark, so maybe that can be repurposed somehow to save a little money. I wonder if Related will seek TIF money or other public funding for the new station.

Last night's speakers said they'd done preliminary engineering and found the new CTA station to be feasible. Listening between the lines, I heard concepts that sounded similar to our previous discussion. I doubt that any DPII demolition would be required. I just quickly sketched in a box for the station without looking at platform dimensions. I don't know if one end of the platforms would need to be dug beneath the townhomes or park, but I suspect the original grant of subsurface rights went beyond the width of the current tunnel. Obviously it's easier to do it cut-and-cover mostly west of Clark, with only the station headhouse on the site of the current substation. Enquist mentioned the possibility of partially daylighting the station. My sketch with a 550-foot platform:

https://i.imgur.com/nv9huyW.png

I asked about funding and the official response was encouraging but noncommittal. After the meeting, a Related official I know told me that the picture is probably much more certain than they wanted to say publicly. Related will be putting in place a new TIF (the current one expires at the end of the year).

Pioneer May 11, 2018 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 8184535)
Nice aerial view of how the development relates to the rest of the CBD:

http://www.78chicago.com/assets/img/...e-vision-1.jpg
http://www.78chicago.com/

That's a great image.

Basically, we'rE creating a new city within an existing working city, complete with infrastructure/trans, new housing, likely some offices, and marketing and financing the whole deal throughout. Same goes for Lincoln Yards. If I am a student in urban planning, this becomes one of my major studies. Frankly, DePaul, et al, should work with Related on creating a curriculum. Wasn't the University of Illinois and DePaul supposed to be involved in some sort of tech incubator on this site?

sentinel May 11, 2018 4:38 PM

Edit - double post.

sentinel May 11, 2018 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioneer (Post 8184734)
That's a great image.

Basically, we'rE creating a new city within an existing working city, complete with infrastructure/trans, new housing, likely some offices, and marketing and financing the whole deal throughout. Same goes for Lincoln Yards. If I am a student in urban planning, this becomes one of my major studies. Frankly, DePaul, et al, should work with Related on creating a curriculum. Wasn't the University of Illinois and DePaul supposed to be involved in some sort of tech incubator on this site?

If you look at Mr. D's annotated plan view a little further up, the 'Discovery Partners Institute' on the far south end of the development is the tech incubator you're referring to.

left of center May 11, 2018 4:40 PM

Absolutely love that there will be that kind of height that far south. Dearborn Park is really starting to stand out like an isolated island between the growing skyline around Roosevelt/Michigan and The 78. I really hope its days are now numbered as The 78 begins to take off.

left of center May 11, 2018 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 8184782)
Yep it's really exciting but I think we're a decade off from seeing anything really tall happen there. It'll happen though. I'm so stoked about the initial design.

It's like when LSE was first proposed back in 2001. We knew that the plan wouldn't come to fruition anytime soon, but at the same time, we were set for several decades of a building boom. Granted, this was after the big lull in skyscraper construction activity in the 90s, so it was a lot more exciting back then. Dare I say, we're getting spoiled? :)

Tom In Chicago May 11, 2018 8:07 PM

[MODERATOR NOTE] Removed all off topic discussion. . . any further disruptive comments will result in suspensions. . . [/rhetorical]

. . .

Mister Uptempo May 11, 2018 8:12 PM

Was there any discussion of building (or at least saving room for) a future Metra station at 15th? With a new Red Line station at 15th, it seems like a good spot for transferring between the two.

Also, given the insular nature of Dearborn Park, is there any chance that 15th Street will ever become a through street between Wells and State?

Mr Downtown May 11, 2018 8:35 PM

No discussion of a new Metra station. Since it's less than a mile to the line's terminus, I don't think Metra would be very interested. Obviously, you can easily transfer from four L lines already at LaSalle St. Station.

15th isn't blocked by Dearborn Park, which is entirely north of there. It currently has two cul-de-sacs because the owner of one of the adjacent (non-DP) townhouses was Mayor Daley's personal trainer and warned him that allowing any through traffic would be punished by more squat reps. (I wish I was kidding.)

Tcmetro May 11, 2018 8:42 PM

It is relatively easy to transfer between the Rock Island and the Red Line at 35th St.

Adding the 15th/Clark stop will be very useful for the South Loop overall, namely those that live roughly between 14th and 18th.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.