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CTA Gray Line Mar 29, 2011 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5220732)
^^^Does your Grey Line Proposal include any additional stops? Versus those already present on ME?

And does it include the "split" line of the metra...the one that hits Chicago East side as well as the one that tracks closer to the redline terminus

It is the "Gray (with an "a") Line", and it includes the South Chicago Branch to 93rd & Brandon (the East side line you refer to), the Mainline to Kensington (115th & Cottage Grove), and Shuttles from Kensington to Blue island (shown), and Hegewisch (not shown here): http://community-2.webtv.net/GLRTS/Proposedroutemap/

ardecila Mar 29, 2011 11:04 PM

The Blue Island branch can easily be replaced by a modified 119 bus, and Hegewisch by a modified 108.

Dunno why you'd want to have service to Hegewisch anyway beyond what the South Shore already provides - or to Blue Island for that matter (which has frequent bus service and Rock Island service).

I do agree that the Blue Island branch is a huge waste of money when a bus could serve the limited number of people much more cheaply. I'm surprised Metra hasn't tried to shut it down already, given how much they hate providing service to the city. Must be some law preventing them.

Beta_Magellan Mar 30, 2011 2:20 AM

I’d guess that, as part of the agreement for taking over the IC’s commuter rail service, Metra’s mandated to provide a certain minimum level of service. Ending service along a line could be pretty difficult, perhaps even needing legislative approval (anyone here familiar with Metra’s charter). I can’t think of an instance when Metra’s permanently reduced the number of trains on a line—suburban growth’s been pretty good, so demand’s generally pushed services upward. The Blue Island branch is definitely an exception to that. In any event, it’s not being abandoned anytime soon—some of the stations received (are slated to receive?) state funding for refurbishment, and I’m pretty sure Blue Island has funds to go ahead with a combined Metra Electric-Rock Island facility as well (I doubt that the design work’s finished yet).

In any case, the Blue Island trains also have the benefit of providing extra capacity to Chicago—I’ve occasionally taken them home to Hyde Park during rush hour, and though they certainly weren’t full they certainly have some utility in reducing crowding on the other divisions.

CTA Gray Line Mar 30, 2011 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5220985)
The Blue Island branch can easily be replaced by a modified 119 bus, and Hegewisch by a modified 108.

Dunno why you'd want to have service to Hegewisch anyway beyond what the South Shore already provides - or to Blue Island for that matter (which has frequent bus service and Rock Island service).

I do agree that the Blue Island branch is a huge waste of money when a bus could serve the limited number of people much more cheaply. I'm surprised Metra hasn't tried to shut it down already, given how much they hate providing service to the city. Must be some law preventing them.


119 and 108 upgraded bus service would attract no riders, and then the powers that be could say that there was never any ridership potential there in the first place.

The Hegewisch Shuttle would allow the South Shore to be relieved of having to carry Illinois passengers (reducing it's capacity for it's Indiana passengers), and end the subsidy provided by Metra.

denizen467 Mar 31, 2011 8:10 AM

^ Gray Line - your signature/footer should read "little", not "small", plans.

denizen467 Mar 31, 2011 8:14 AM

Have people noticed new street lights along the northernmost 1 mile (at least on the northbound side) or so of LSD? I think they are noticeably whiter and brighter -- they must be LEDs or something. You can tell they are new because it is almost impossible to stare at them for even a second. (That aspect kind of makes them creepy, in a weird way, like some dystopic sci-fi where machines have taken over in a way that is incompatible with human comfort.)

Their height is also a bit lower. It's hard to tell whether up-facing light leakage has been eliminated, but maybe "dark sky" principles have been adopted here as well, which would be particularly welcome by the highrises nearby.

CTA Gray Line Mar 31, 2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5223058)
^ Gray Line - your signature/footer should read "little", not "small", plans.

Thanks for the correction.

VivaLFuego Mar 31, 2011 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 5221431)
119 and 108 upgraded bus service would attract no riders, and then the powers that be could say that there was never any ridership potential there in the first place.

Wouldn't fare integration be the logical first step in revealing if there's latent demand for increased service levels on any particular Metra branch?

All else equal, can you point to any recent example in Chicago where dramatically increasing service levels attracted anywhere near enough riders to even maintain the existing productivity levels from before the service increase? (to say nothing of actually improving productivity). It just doesn't happen. Generally, you can double a route's service level and maybe get an extra 15-20% total ridership... except now it's a much less productive service (riders per service-hour), requiring ever more operating subsidy. Realistically, unless you've got tons of money to burn on operating subsidy, you have to let the demand drive the service level, not vice versa.

With regional fare integration, the artificial impediment to taking Metra in the city would be removed --- particularly if, in addition to simply being able to use the same fare media, the fare integration works out (a) some sort of transfer discount arrangement so buses can feed Metra and vice versa and (b) some sort of tiered unlimited ride pass for 1, 2, or all 3 RTA agencies. Once the Metra routes can serve as a natural component of the integrated urban transit network, there would, in time, be a clear sense of the extent to which extra service is or isn't warranted on the ME branches. Otherwise, increasing service levels is just looking for a way to spend money on operating subsidy, which is basically a zero sum game (i.e. paying for more frequent service there would mean cutting service somewhere else, and the more unproductive the new service is, the more you have to cut elsewhere).

CTA Gray Line Mar 31, 2011 3:07 PM

Interesting First & Fastest article on Kensington Interlocking:

http://www.shore-line.org/_pdfs/kens...r05_06_F&F.pdf

CTA Gray Line Mar 31, 2011 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 5223248)
Wouldn't fare integration be the logical first step in revealing if there's latent demand for increased service levels on any particular Metra branch?

All else equal, can you point to any recent example in Chicago where dramatically increasing service levels attracted anywhere near enough riders to even maintain the existing productivity levels from before the service increase? (to say nothing of actually improving productivity). It just doesn't happen. Generally, you can double a route's service level and maybe get an extra 15-20% total ridership... except now it's a much less productive service (riders per service-hour), requiring ever more operating subsidy. Realistically, unless you've got tons of money to burn on operating subsidy, you have to let the demand drive the service level, not vice versa.

With regional fare integration, the artificial impediment to taking Metra in the city would be removed --- particularly if, in addition to simply being able to use the same fare media, the fare integration works out (a) some sort of transfer discount arrangement so buses can feed Metra and vice versa and (b) some sort of tiered unlimited ride pass for 1, 2, or all 3 RTA agencies. Once the Metra routes can serve as a natural component of the integrated urban transit network, there would, in time, be a clear sense of the extent to which extra service is or isn't warranted on the ME branches. Otherwise, increasing service levels is just looking for a way to spend money on operating subsidy, which is basically a zero sum game (i.e. paying for more frequent service there would mean cutting service somewhere else, and the more unproductive the new service is, the more you have to cut elsewhere).

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying; except that unless they are forced they will never do anything of that sort (childish sibling politics).


lawfin: Is this form of emphasis OK??

Jenner Apr 1, 2011 12:45 AM

:previous: Regarding fare integration, it would seem that a good test would be to have a CTA machine take a transit card, and spew out a Metra ticket. Or, I think some trains are accepting credit cards for payment. I don't know if such devices can be modified to take CTA transit cards. In either case, the payment fare would go to CTA, who would have to reimburse Metra for the fare.

For the ticket machines, perhaps CTA can add a $.50 premium for such a ticket. Once at Millennium station, CTA transfer rates would apply for buses, and L trains. Two stops could be used on a trial basis just to see how it would work out.

denizen467 Apr 2, 2011 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5223061)
Have people noticed new street lights along the northernmost 1 mile (at least on the northbound side) or so of LSD? I think they are noticeably whiter and brighter -- they must be LEDs or something.

...

Also noted southbound (west side of LSD) from North to Oak.

Beta_Magellan Apr 2, 2011 9:19 PM

Digressing to the traffic signal timing and pedestrians, I also made all the lights on North Avenue on Wicker Park without trying last night as well…guess I lucked out in moving to a city that’s in step with my stride. :)

ardecila Apr 5, 2011 8:45 PM

Metra 35th/Bronzeville Station opens
 
All pictures courtesy of vxla

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/...ee690e4c_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5061/...87c53872_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5229/...2f37a2ce_b.jpg

New signage: I wonder if this is a new prototype signage for Metra to replace their 1970s-vintage white on blue plastic? It feels very fresh and contemporary; I hope it gets installed system-wide.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/...3d9caca5_z.jpg

Complicated boarding instructions... what a weird way to operate a railroad.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/...7db5360f_z.jpg

denizen467 Apr 6, 2011 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5230008)
Complicated boarding instructions... what a weird way to operate a railroad.http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/...7db5360f_z.jpg

Well I'm sure the platform scheduling was done with the best intentions. My beef would be with the sign itself ... shouldn't the 5am part be written above the 2pm part?
Also, the capitalization of words is haphazard. Mr Downtown, doesn't Metra have professional signage people at their disposal? This (including the line breaks and indentation, and the missing space before one "AM") looks it was put together by a summer intern. For the good of the city, your services might be needed here.

ardecila Apr 6, 2011 6:29 AM

You don't think it's odd that the trains run on the right in the morning and on the left in the afternoon/evening? It's not like there's any freight traffic causing conflicts. Maybe it has to do with the storage of unused trains? 35th is between LaSalle and the Rocket House yard, so a lot of the trains passing the station in midday won't be actual trains, but deadhead ones being taken back to the yard.

The Helvetica of the sign doesn't match either Metra's traditional white-on-blue, or the "new scheme" at 35th. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was a CTA sign.

It honestly looks like a temporary sign, though. Ordinarily Metra would use paper signs to announce temporary or short-term service patterns, but the design of this station leaves no good place to post paper flyers.

denizen467 Apr 6, 2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5230634)
You don't think it's odd that the trains run on the right in the morning and on the left in the afternoon/evening? It's not like there's any freight traffic causing conflicts. Maybe it has to do with the storage of unused trains? 35th is between LaSalle and the Rocket House yard, so a lot of the trains passing the station in midday won't be actual trains, but deadhead ones being taken back to the yard.

I got no idea but in addition to those possibilities (and that maybe CREATE or other work is fouling up normal routing schedules for freight/commuter/Amtrak/deadhead trains), I thought that maybe it somehow was related to crowd control/efficiency/safety of 1000s of ballpark visitors using the station (even if only 1/5 to 1/4 of the days of the year have games) and 35th Street.

Mr Downtown Apr 6, 2011 2:18 PM

^I think you mean the safety of 10s of ballpark visitors using the station.

I'm sure RID runs lefthanded in the afternoon to reduce conflicts with trains coming out of storage at the Rocket House, which is west of the main. The retrieved trainsets run straight to the throat of LaSalle St. Station.

Beta_Magellan Apr 6, 2011 4:33 PM

There’s been talk of adding a third track to the Rock between LaSalle and somewhere on the south side (74th? 79th? 87th?) in conjunction with eventually letting the Southwest Service on their tracks—that might help simplify traffic patterns. Unfortunately, I don’t see how they’d be able to fit one in or around this station.

denizen467 Apr 7, 2011 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5230820)
^I think you mean the safety of 10s of ballpark visitors using the station.

Are there no high hopes for the weekends? Wouldn't Southlanders be more than happy to avoid driving the Dan Ryan with their kids, through the South Side, and then saving on parking costs, while being dropped off across the street from the stadium?

Seems a park-n-ride system somewhere down the line (especially Joliet?) could be successful on weekend game days. Bonus: enjoy cold beer because you left your keys at home.


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