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ethereal_reality Oct 8, 2011 3:44 PM

One of the earliest photographs of Chinatown that I've come across. Notice the orange groves as well.


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4...natownandg.jpg
found on ebay some time ago.





http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4...natownandg.jpg

SierraMadre Oct 8, 2011 8:04 PM

another "then and now" of the Pasadena Freeway

Los Angeles Past Oct 8, 2011 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraMadre (Post 5437834)
I have always been fascinated by "then and now" photos depicting locations which have graphic visuals of what was and what is.
Now...first my apologies. These had to have been posted before. But just in case I'd like to make sure everyone has had a chance to see them (twice?) so...I know this is risky, but here goes....:

I thought these looked familiar. The original source for these photos is here. Credit where credit is due and all that...

-Scott

SierraMadre Oct 9, 2011 12:07 AM

I would have given credit had I known the source of these images.

GaylordWilshire Oct 9, 2011 12:13 AM

:previous:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics04/00011710.jpgLAPL

The credit police...

Sebisebster Oct 9, 2011 12:15 AM

:previous::cool:

ethereal_reality Oct 9, 2011 12:15 AM

That's fine SierraMadre....just go back to your post and click on the edit button (lower right) and paste in this link.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...4618.htmlstory

I appreciate everything that you have contributed to the thread.
It's people like you that keep this wonderful forum alive. Long live 'noirish Los Angeles'!!

rick m Oct 9, 2011 1:10 AM

Doing deep research for Arcadia Press book and 2010 Lavender Los Angeles exhibit we deduced that the transgender/hustler bar John Rechy named in City Of Night as the 1-2-3 (on Spring St nr 3rd) wouldve been the 326 - Rechy confirmed that he'd changed its name (as well as a bar on Santa Monica's Oceanwalk) purely for the safety of their clientele and proprietors- Therefore we had one of the city's premier he-man establishments morphing into a verry different scene a decade or so after Jim Jeffries closed. On LAPL photo database search for the "men in drag" images for another nearby drag club. Happy LGBT Month !

ethereal_reality Oct 9, 2011 3:25 AM

So you're saying Jim Jeffries' Gentlemen's Club eventually became a gay bar?
Stranger things have happened...especially in Los Angeles.

It would be great to hear from John Rechy directly. Is that possible?



__________

rick m Oct 9, 2011 4:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5438338)
So you're saying Jim Jeffries' Gentlemen's Club eventually became a gay bar?
Stranger things have happened...especially in Los Angeles.

It would be great to hear from John Rechy directly. Is that possible?



__________

He met just once with our research group's head guy - confirmed also a bit more about the Cooper's Donut stand riot that he had witnessed- but did not show up at the gala opening nor any of the presentations held over a ten day period- The physical exhibit has since appeared @ WEHO CityHall and recently @ L.A.CityHall during Pride Month - Get the Arcadia book-for a real eye opener. So many goodies were unearthed in 18 months of research of preStonewall L.A.- My access to uncatalogued goodies @ OneArchives was the key - it was a blast leading a bunch of G/L youth thru all this discovery--Someday the plan to assemble a standing G/L history museum in town-- Even Bunker Hill had such to input--I earlier had fed history material to Stuart Timmons - whatever Iwas finding whilst poring thru L A Times archives on Proquest-some of which made it into GayL.A. as well as Lavender Los Angeles (title blurted out by me that everyone deemed to be used!) Whew---Later!

Los Angeles Past Oct 9, 2011 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebisebster https://otters.net/img/lanoir/viewpost.gif
SierraMadre, thank you, thank you, and thank so much for sharing those pics. As you have already noticed, there are so many followers on this thread who really love and appreciate the fascinating 'then and now' game.
I'm particularly fascinated with Bunker Hill and your 'then and now' pics are awesome. I can't wait to see some more.
Muchas gracias, SierraMadre, de todo corazón.

Aquí te dejo ver una aportación mía ----> Here's my contribution. It's a repost, but it's good to see it again.

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/58360671.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'm sorry, but what you call "my contribution" is actually my photo, from my blog post.

Please do not take credit for content that you did not create.

Some may think that giving credit is a trivial or even a laughing matter, but it's not. Unfortunately, there do seem to be a lot of people on this thread who are either ignorant of or are simply ignoring Skyscraperpage.com's simply-stated rules for third-party content attribution. Here they are again for those who apparently need a reminder.

==========

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/skyscr...forumrules.jpg

==========

I'm not the "credit police," but I do firmly believe in giving credit where credit is due insofar as it is possible. The fact is that a significant majority of this thread consists of content that the posters themselves did not create, yet a few posters here seem to think that giving proper credit according to this website's rules is not worth bothering with. You should bother, though, because the owners of Skyscraperpage.com could lock or even delete this whole thread at any time for any single instance of copyright abuse, and that would be the end of it.

When it comes down to it, it's your choice whether or not to credit your posts properly. All I'm saying is that I believe we should all follow the rules here to the best of our ability. If you really can't find the ultimate source for a picture, though, that's entirely cool and forgivable – I've posted unattributed images, myself, from time to time – but I think it's important that we should at least TRY to provide the best recent source information that we can here. Historical accuracy demands no less, doesn't it?

-Scott

gsjansen Oct 9, 2011 11:02 AM

:previous:

i am with scott on this one big time! the moderators of the skyscraperpage forums, have prevoulsy posted in this thread about the importance of not only giving credit to the original source, but also providing a link to the original source web page.

even if you upload an image to your photo account, you still need to give the original source location with a link of where the photograph originally came from.

they make it clear, that if you don't know, then don't post.

the consequences that scott mentioned are very real, and it would be a travesty, if this incredible source of los angeles history which is for the betterment of everybody got locked down.


we wouldn't want this to happen...........

Culver City police enforcing the law of tha land 1950

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics40/00039598.jpg
Source: LAPL

GaylordWilshire Oct 9, 2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past (Post 5438496)
I'm not the "credit police"
-Scott

http://www.jdmfilmreviews.com/images...aby-jane22.jpgWarner Bros.
Butcha ARE Scott, ya ARE the credit police. At least that is the net effect. And while
everything you say and so helpfully spell out is true--that the thread could be shut down
etc--it seems to me that one equally sure way to accomplish this is to be doctrinaire with
newcomers. It took me quite awhile to figure out how to add credit lines--it's not like
there's a test of one's computer skills to sign up for the site. Our esteemed founder,
Ethereal, handled Sierra Madre's innocent omission exactly as it should have been.
Thank you, e_r, SM, Sebisebster--and Scott--for all your terrific contributions.

Let's lighten up!
http://jpg1.lapl.org/spnb01/00007269.jpgLAPL

Now about those gay bars....

rick m Oct 9, 2011 2:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5438533)
http://www.jdmfilmreviews.com/images...aby-jane22.jpgWarner Bros.
Butcha ARE Scott, ya ARE the credit police. At least that is the net effect. And while
everything you say and so helpfully spell out is true--that the thread could be shut down
etc--it seems to me that one equally sure way to accomplish this is to be doctrinaire with
newcomers. It took me quite awhile to figure out how to add credit lines--it's not like
there's a test of one's computer skills to sign up for the site. Our esteemed founder,
Ethereal, handled Sierra Madre's innocent omission exactly as it should have been.
Thank you, e_r, SM, Sebisebster--and Scott--for all your terrific contributions.

Let's lighten up!
http://jpg1.lapl.org/spnb01/00007269.jpgLAPL

Now about those gay bars....

Where to begin on old downtown's gay scene-- Well prior to WW2 there was furrier-owned Maxwell's (in'56 city st.dir.as M Cocktail Lounge) that startd qietly on first floor of the Currier Bldg(adj to east side of Bradbury Bldng)which is absurd cuz city's detective/vice dept was ensconced inside that blng on 2 floors) Maxwell's was THE mjr spot for the many occupants of the surrounding hotel-apts - But it eventually became rowdier - so the dressier element found the Crown Jewel (n/e corner of 8th & Olive) more to their liking.The owner there had a large open basement bar area ringed by a mezzanine and a grand-entrance-providing central stairway for the dandy crowd. Other bars(usually another dozen or so at any one time) were definitely tougher scenes/locations.Dancing was not even possible until the 60s started. Pershing Square's dense banana groves had its own outdoor fans since the depression - others met more discretely at the central fountain - The park had 2 tavers on the east side on Hill (Red Horse andBlue Rail) and the big Donut Chalet(5th n Hill) and a City Chicken hangout for the under 21 set- and Rechy verified that the Googies Coffeeshop on corner of Olive n 5th in the sometimes gay-run San Carlos Hotel was a spot to relax and cruise .Some hotels in their doddering years eagerly took in male trysting pairs

SierraMadre Oct 9, 2011 3:44 PM

So, let me see if I have this right:
If I have an image that I am uncertain of it's original photographer-publsher, etc., then don't post it.
Right? That's what I'm hearing.
I have several boxes of negatives and prints from 40-50 years old, or more.
I have collected them over the years a purchased them from garage sales of people have given them to me.
They are not magazines, newspapers or books. Many are just discarded family photos which just happen to have been taken in Los Angeles. They are simply aging photographs that I have scanned.
Maybe photographed by a housewife, maybe by a professional photographer. I'll never know.
None of us will never know. It's just a photo with no name, no nothing written on it whatsoever.

I would never ever not give credit for any posts unless I just didn't know.

Look, I'm a retired professional photographer....50 years worth.
I get to see my personal images splattered all over the internet everyday without any credit to me.
So don't give me any lectures about the decency of "credit where credit is do".
I've been here three weeks and have been trying to fit in with all of you seasoned "Noir Fans".
So, whats the word on these boxes of photos that have no writing on them?
Keep them to myself? Or should I just say...."photographer unknown", or leave them in a box for my cat to sleep on?
Can you imagine what history books, biographies, etc. would look like if every single image that had no information on who took the photo were never published? Think about it.

rick m Oct 9, 2011 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5438588)
Where to begin on old downtown's gay scene-- Well prior to WW2 there was furrier-owned Maxwell's (in'56 city st.dir.as M Cocktail Lounge) that startd qietly on first floor of the Currier Bldg(adj to east side of Bradbury Bldng)which is absurd cuz city's detective/vice dept was ensconced inside that blng on 2 floors) Maxwell's was THE mjr spot for the many occupants of the surrounding hotel-apts - But it eventually became rowdier - so the dressier element found the Crown Jewel (n/e corner of 8th & Olive) more to their liking.The owner there had a large open basement bar area ringed by a mezzanine and a grand-entrance-providing central stairway for the dandy crowd. Other bars(usually another dozen or so at any one time) were definitely tougher scenes/locations.Dancing was not even possible until the 60s started. Pershing Square's dense banana groves had its own outdoor fans since the depression - others met more discretely at the central fountain - The park had 2 tavers on the east side on Hill (Red Horse andBlue Rail) and the big Donut Chalet(5th n Hill) and a City Chicken hangout for the under 21 set- and Rechy verified that the Googies Coffeeshop on corner of Olive n 5th in the sometimes gay-run San Carlos Hotel was a spot to relax and cruise .Some hotels in their doddering years eagerly took in male trysting pairs

Just back frm Sundays Hwd farmers mkt - smack dab centered @ Selma n Cosmo where 2 1930s gay speakeasies once were- B.B.B.s and Jimmy's Backyard - also the just closed Spotlite and Ivar St.'s eurodive Sewers Of Paris/in basement of Ivar Theatre!--Anyhoo- the 3 downtown hotels noted as okay to use in very early gay guides were the Lankershim once on 7th, the Hayward, San Carlos "adverts in 1970 Advocate" and the Dover Hotel&bar next to tThe Waldorf -500 block of S.Main-LAPD murder scene of a hustler..

sopas ej Oct 9, 2011 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5438533)

Beer and Ritz Crackers, an interesting combination.


Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5438371)
Get the Arcadia book-for a real eye opener.

I actually looked through this book some weeks ago while I was at Vroman's in Pasadena. It's a fascinating book. I don't recall it mentioning this, though:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2640/p1090163y.jpg
Photo by me

This supposedly is the oldest bathhouse in Los Angeles, established in 1905, corner of 4th and Los Angeles Streets. As far as I know, it's still in business (I've never been to it myself) and is now called the KLYT bathhouse. But it used to known as the Palace Turkish Baths. This is from a 1967 LA phone book:
http://www.gaytubs.com/images/palace.jpg
gaytubs.com

Here it is in the context of the surrounding blocks. I took these photos on 12/31/09. The building under construction on the right is now complete (it's a mixed-use commercial/residential building).
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1153/p1090164fm.jpg
Photo by me

And for historic context, that mixed-use building pales greatly in comparison to what used to be there--- the Westminster Hotel:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1...nsterhotel.jpg
USC Archive

The photo dates to before the opening of the bathhouse--circa 1900, the USC Archive says. So none of those gentlemen in the picture were on their way there.

I believe there were a number of bathhouses operating in downtown Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th Century. Of course there were many vice busts that would occur.

This is from an 1895 Los Angeles directory:
http://www.gaytubs.com/images/la-baths.jpg
gaytubs.com

sopas ej Oct 9, 2011 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5438735)
Just back frm Sundays Hwd farmers mkt - smack dab centered @ Selma n Cosmo where 2 1930s gay speakeasies once were- B.B.B.s and Jimmy's Backyard - also the just closed Spotlite and Ivar St.'s eurodive Sewers Of Paris/in basement of Ivar Theatre!--Anyhoo- the 3 downtown hotels noted as okay to use in very early gay guides were the Lankershim once on 7th, the Hayward, San Carlos "adverts in 1970 Advocate" and the Dover Hotel&bar next to tThe Waldorf -500 block of S.Main-LAPD murder scene of a hustler..

I didn't know the Spotlight closed! I'd only been there a few times-- I recall it being run-down, very divey, and you saw all kinda people there; hustlers, closets, homeless-looking people-- but I didn't feel unsafe there. I felt like people left you alone for the most part.

gsjansen Oct 9, 2011 6:29 PM

sigh.........there have been tons of times, when i found fabulous photographs that i wanted to post...(alot of times on flickr or other third party sites)...however, i have always tried to adhere to the sites rules...(trust me , it's sometimes a pain in the patootie to source every photograph i post)......regardless....this is the home field rules for the playing field we all enjoy............

as draconian as the rules might sound........there are such things as copyright laws...yadda yadda yadda........anyway, my two cents, (again), although Los Angeles Past, might sound like a "Credit Police", his post needs to be taken and understood in that we have already been repremanded previously by this forum's modertor, and yes it is that important!


and now i'll get off of my high horse!

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics32/00050500.jpg
Source: LAPL

Sebisebster Oct 9, 2011 10:23 PM

TO LOS ANGELES PAST (Scott) -----> Understood. I delated my original post in order of terms of credit and copyright respect.

rick m Oct 9, 2011 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 5438758)
Beer and Ritz Crackers, an interesting combination.




I actually looked through this book some weeks ago while I was at Vroman's in Pasadena. It's a fascinating book. I don't recall it mentioning this, though:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2640/p1090163y.jpg
Photo by me

This supposedly is the oldest bathhouse in Los Angeles, established in 1905, corner of 4th and Los Angeles Streets. As far as I know, it's still in business (I've never been to it myself) and is now called the KLYT bathhouse. But it used to known as the Palace Turkish Baths. This is from a 1967 LA phone book:
http://www.gaytubs.com/images/palace.jpg
gaytubs.com

Here it is in the context of the surrounding blocks. I took these photos on 12/31/09. The building under construction on the right is now complete (it's a mixed-use commercial/residential building).
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1153/p1090164fm.jpg
Photo by me

And for historic context, that mixed-use building pales greatly in comparison to what used to be there--- the Westminster Hotel:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1...nsterhotel.jpg
USC Archive

The photo dates to before the opening of the bathhouse--circa 1900, the USC Archive says. So none of those gentlemen in the picture were on their way there.

I believe there were a number of bathhouses operating in downtown Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th Century. Of course there were many vice busts that would occur.

This is from an 1895 Los Angeles directory:
http://www.gaytubs.com/images/la-baths.jpg
gaytubs.com

The bathhouses were not squeezed into the Arcadia book- Recently I cracked the mystery of the Pershing Sq. bath raid- Oops-my battery needs reloading-Later !

ethereal_reality Oct 10, 2011 1:25 AM

I guess I'm still ruminating about Jim Jeffries' alpha-male Gentleman's Club morphing into a gay bar.



Pictured below is a gambling joint during a raid at 1725 West Florence in January 1955.
The only crime I see here is the plaid wallpaper. ;)


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6...arat1725wf.jpg
usc digital archive




Below: Here is a current photo of 1725 W. Florence Ave. The gambling den has been resurrected as a 'church'.


http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/235...dbldgtoday.jpg
google street views



http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1...ldgnoirmar.jpg
Marc Evans

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clearlight/4864831279/


I'd take the gamblers any day.


___________

rick m Oct 10, 2011 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5439050)
The bathhouses were not squeezed into the Arcadia book- Recently I cracked the mystery of the Pershing Sq. bath raid- Oops-my battery needs reloading-Later !

Umm - SOPAS! Westminster was fronting along Main St.- that shown corner would be n/e corner at 4th- likely loads of its occupants were struggling single men--About finally locating where the bath adjacent to Pershing Sq. was located- I found the name The Sultan in the entry for Los Angeles in Dwyer's Gay Encyclopedia-overlloked in our raiding all else @ One during our researching frenzy.The in the main archives index we got directed to the "bathhouse" folder-Voila! A ten page extract frm LAPD Commission hearing circa 1959 detailed it in all its chicanery (for the LAPD).. A '56 city street directory held the name:Sultan Downtown Health Center(!) @ 607 S.Hill St.- In the basement of the changing-hands Consolidated Bldng was essentially 4 dozen plywood minisuites complete with gloryholes all round an cots-(a restroom or showers or gym equipment NOT mentioned by the 2 vice officers )This pair were sent to surveil the place after straight customers compliants re sleepness nights in what supposedly was a $2 per nite flophouse. 2 yrs of nitely observing n notetaking frm their own rented cubicle sent 18 to jail in '57 and 59 more in '58 -til finally the owner and his mother were pressured to close.So this was just 40' south of that eastern corner of Pershing Sq. Almost cattycorner up in the ginormous balcony of the by now B-movie Paramount Theater many men found their scene--which also was so close to the Metro downstairs bar reached by steps a few feet from the theater's sidewalk boxoffice- Now departed friends told of remarkably congested grope partying taking place in a very dark bar..Another hustler bar - notorious countrywide was the Circle @324 W.5th nestled in rear of Dunn's Coffee Shop doors away frm the Donut Chalet-- Pershing Sq. WAS really like Disneyland --

sopas ej Oct 10, 2011 3:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5439162)
Umm - SOPAS! Westminster was fronting along Main St.- that shown corner would be n/e corner at 4th-

I am totally aware of that, yes! I was just saying that the new development is now on the site of the old Westminster; the new development actually takes up the whole north side of 4th street between Main and Los Angeles streets; there is open space in the center (it's actually a 2-building development).

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5439162)
About finally locating where the bath adjacent to Pershing Sq. was located- I found the name The Sultan in the entry for Los Angeles in Dwyer's Gay Encyclopedia-overlloked in our raiding all else @ One during our researching frenzy.The in the main archives index we got directed to the "bathhouse" folder-Voila! A ten page extract frm LAPD Commission hearing circa 1959 detailed it in all its chicanery (for the LAPD).. A '56 city street directory held the name:Sultan Downtown Health Center(!) @ 607 S.Hill St.- In the basement of the changing-hands Consolidated Bldng was essentially 4 dozen plywood minisuites complete with gloryholes all round an cots-(a restroom or showers or gym equipment NOT mentioned by the 2 vice officers )This pair were sent to surveil the place after straight customers compliants re sleepness nights in what supposedly was a $2 per nite flophouse. 2 yrs of nitely observing n notetaking frm their own rented cubicle sent 18 to jail in '57 and 59 more in '58 -til finally the owner and his mother were pressured to close.So this was just 40' south of that eastern corner of Pershing Sq. Almost cattycorner up in the ginormous balcony of the by now B-movie Paramount Theater many men found their scene--which also was so close to the Metro downstairs bar reached by steps a few feet from the theater's sidewalk boxoffice- Now departed friends told of remarkably congested grope partying taking place in a very dark bar..Another hustler bar - notorious countrywide was the Circle @324 W.5th nestled in rear of Dunn's Coffee Shop doors away frm the Donut Chalet-- Pershing Sq. WAS really like Disneyland --

Very interesting tidbits. I know that Pershing Square was a big cruising area a long time ago.

rick m Oct 10, 2011 4:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 5439203)
I am totally aware of that, yes! I was just saying that the new development is now on the site of the old Westminster; the new development actually takes up the whole north side of 4th street between Main and Los Angeles streets; there is open space in the center (it's actually a 2-building development).



Very interesting tidbits. I know that Pershing Square was a big cruising area a long time ago.

More on Roman Palace Baths- As related by late Jim Kepner n Donna Smith when interviewed sometime in the 70s about early L.A. gay/lesbian tales of yore-- And also found in 4 articles in 1921 (?) LA Times--ex mayor Harper's now cute and flaming 20 yr old son and his posse overheard by undercover vice cop iside the baths planning their seduction party/orgy at his home on S.Figueroa (?) .This stud officer gets invited to join the fun - so headqrtrs dispatches he and a partner who climb thru open downstairs window and hide neath the master bed to take copious notes whilst a raid squad waits out around the corner until they hear a signal to bust up the event. The lads were attired in elaborate drag and fellating a gaggle of sailors they'd met. Raid ensues and the exmayor and wife arrive home frm their journey to have momma faint deadaway at sight of sonnyboy in cuffs and high drag (her own finery?) After several court appearances the sailors were acquited and all other charges eventually got dropped into dustbin of history. Femme extraordinaire Empress Josephine rented the baths out for monthly fetes for the city's gay royalty with hired musicians and grand pianos -Josephine later set up in deluxe cottage near Jonathan Club by one of its leaders who had a thing for her -- Rock Hudson said seen to be a habituee on the same premises in the '50s... Whew again in the name of LGBT History Month !

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 12:58 AM

Here is an interesting photo of a boarded up court-yard apartment complex in the shadow of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power Building. I believe the location is somewhere on Freemont Street near Temple.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/3...taptsonfre.jpg
los angeles public library

http://www.lapl.org/


So would this court-yard complex be situated just below Circle Court in the photo below? If I only had a super-duper magnifying glass. :)


http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9...indistance.jpg
usc digital archive

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...ller/index.htm

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 1:47 AM

Here is an expansive photo of the Hall of Justice that I don't remember seeing before.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5879/amazingn.jpg
usc digital archive


Here's my question:
Was this stretch of residential buildings located on Hill Street, Olive Street or the much much shorter Stockton Street?
(Stockton Street is visible on an old 1945 street map of L.A. that I purchased recently on ebay)

_____

GaylordWilshire Oct 11, 2011 1:50 AM

e_r: Looks to me like the court you mentioned below was probably entered from Fremont where it angled north of Diamond Street between First and Temple--

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...s436/wandp.jpgLos Angeles Mapped

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 1:58 AM

Wow GaylordWilshire thanks for pinpointing that for me.

I added another question in post #4937....did you see it?

rick m Oct 11, 2011 2:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5440090)
Here is an expansive photo of the Hall of Justice that I don't remember seeing before.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5879/amazingn.jpg
los angeles public library

Here's my question:
Was this stretch of residential buildings located on Hill Street, Olive Street or the much much shorter Stockton Street?
(Stockton Street is visible on an old 1945 street map of L.A. that I purchased recently on ebay)

These apts were on the 300 block of North Hill St --- USC should have that correct info added by now.

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 2:58 AM

Thanks rick_m. I wasn't sure of the location.

rick m Oct 11, 2011 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5440153)
These apts were on the 300 block of North Hill St --- USC should have that correct info added by now.

Hmmm- should've rechecked USC record first - Yuri's had that correction for months - so I just gave him a nudge on that street i.d. - This image only turned up early in 2011 --

GaylordWilshire Oct 11, 2011 3:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5440090)
Here's my question:
Was this stretch of residential buildings located on Hill Street, Olive Street or the much much shorter Stockton Street?
(Stockton Street is visible on an old 1945 street map of L.A. that I purchased recently on ebay)

I see stubby Stockton on the same map that the image below came from--there is another stub street just west of it the name of which I can't make out-- but I can't tell where these houses were.

Per a prior discussion, I did come across the Swastika Apartments in this neighborhood--at 827 Boston St. (The address still turns up an apartment bldg --but something much newer called the Orsini.)

Ed: Looks like rick m has got it pinned down. Excellent.

GaylordWilshire Oct 11, 2011 10:33 AM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C...2520AM.bmp.jpgLAPL

gsjansen Oct 11, 2011 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5440153)
These apts were on the 300 block of North Hill St --- USC should have that correct info added by now.

interesting that this particular photograph's location come's up.

back in may, i had received a flickermail asking the same question.

Dear gsjansen,

It's rather a very interesting collection of the LA's historic photographs you have! I really enjoyed it. The USC Digital Library has thousands of published images related to the LA's history, and some of them is exact match to yours. Which is, I assume, quite inevitable in the age of the Internet :)

BTW, I wonder how did you get the location info for this image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33455118@N08/5643203995/ ? We have the same photograph in our collection but no geo-related data is available.

Many thanks in advance,

Yuri Shcherbina
Metadata Manager
USC Digital Library


I had responded,

thank you for your kind message on the images i have posted on my flickr photostream.

yes quite a few of the photographs are from the USC Digital Archive.

i began posting images to my flickr account so that friends of mine could see in images the amazing change and growth that los angeles has experienced in a very short period of time.

I always try to verify locations and dates of photographs that i upload by means of comparing maps, other photographs, and news articles.

the photo that you asked about, i was able to date due to the level of construction completed on city hall. i was able to locate the image as being on hill street, north of temple mainly because of the los angeles city garage that is visible at the lower far right hand side of the image.

here is a link to a 1940 image from the los angeles public library photographic collection showing the intersection of hill and temple where the garage is very visible

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics37/00068219.jpg

i hope that answers your question properly.


i'm assuming it is the same Yuri you make reference to in your next post.

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5440184)
I see stubby Stockton on the same map that the image below came from--there is another stub street just west of it the name of which I can't make out-

Hi GW:
That other stubby street was called Pavilion Place.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6236/bofamap1945.jpg
from my 1945 map

-ER

ethereal_reality Oct 11, 2011 11:55 PM

A spectacular looking motor court.....Firenze Gardens at 5218-5230 Sunset Boulevard, circa 1922.


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1...gardens521.jpg
los angeles public library

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics14/00026792.jpg

gsjansen Oct 12, 2011 2:20 AM

:previous:

firenze gardens today......................................

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6047/...5156a7a3_b.jpg
Source: Googlemaps

ethereal_reality Oct 12, 2011 2:51 AM

aaargh! So upsetting. :(

rick m Oct 12, 2011 3:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5440493)
interesting that this particular photograph's location come's up.

back in may, i had received a flickermail asking the same question.

Dear gsjansen,

It's rather a very interesting collection of the LA's historic photographs you have! I really enjoyed it. The USC Digital Library has thousands of published images related to the LA's history, and some of them is exact match to yours. Which is, I assume, quite inevitable in the age of the Internet :)

BTW, I wonder how did you get the location info for this image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33455118@N08/5643203995/ ? We have the same photograph in our collection but no geo-related data is available.

Many thanks in advance,

Yuri Shcherbina
Metadata Manager
USC Digital Library


I had responded,

thank you for your kind message on the images i have posted on my flickr photostream.

yes quite a few of the photographs are from the USC Digital Archive.

i began posting images to my flickr account so that friends of mine could see in images the amazing change and growth that los angeles has experienced in a very short period of time.

I always try to verify locations and dates of photographs that i upload by means of comparing maps, other photographs, and news articles.

the photo that you asked about, i was able to date due to the level of construction completed on city hall. i was able to locate the image as being on hill street, north of temple mainly because of the los angeles city garage that is visible at the lower far right hand side of the image.

here is a link to a 1940 image from the los angeles public library photographic collection showing the intersection of hill and temple where the garage is very visible

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics37/00068219.jpg

i hope that answers your question properly.


i'm assuming it is the same Yuri you make reference to in your next post.

Yep - Same Yuri - Dace handed me over to him almost 2 yrs ago - He says they are putting many corrections into a catalog to apply once a lengthy retooling finalizes -- I've worked with them on at least 30 of these fixes- And going back 6 or 7 years with LAPL and UCLA collections maybe 70 or 80 more ... Gotta provide backup to make the case each time ! Always something ------ Sometimes going thru your FLICKR posts , I'd see one that'd recently been taken care of by meself --

Horthos Oct 12, 2011 6:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5370520)
Below is a postcard view of yet another renovation of the Alexandria Hotel lobby (perhaps the early 1950s).

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4...obbyredeco.jpg
postcard/ebay




below: A booth in the 'Gentlemen's Club' of the Alexandria Hotel, circa 1910 (very elaborate for a booth...looks more like a shrine).

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/324/sgrill1910.jpg
postcard/ebay



below: Years later, a view of the 'Masque Room', a step-down bar in the Alexandria Hotel.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6...hemasquero.jpg
postcard/ebay

Any ideas where this was located Horthos?

___________

Sorry I havent been on here for quite some time, been caught up with too much other stuff.

As for the step down bar, I am not sure where that would have been. There are many areas in the building which have been redone, sealed off to the public (by the mailboxes there is a stairway that leads to the basement, which has been sealed off completely. The only way I know its a stairway is by looking through a small crack, with the right amount of light you can see down, but I have no clue what it is. Might be the bar you speak of.)

I have a bunch of other photos of things that have been going on down here. In particular, they started redoing the sidewalks around 5th and broadway, but havent done anymore. At first glance, they look like the original sidewalks, with the glass tiles, but when you look harder, its actually just pink-ish concrete with shiny granite tiles stuck in...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...-/P1010178.jpg

Looks better than the broken grease/spit/piss/gum/whatever else stains that were there before (although they are already getting dirty again), but I wish they could have done them properly with the glass.

Also, when I moved down here, before I discovered this thread, I was always curious about the pacific mutual building (6th and olive), I always thought it looked strange. When I learned that it was remuddled with a crappy facade, I went back and looked at it a bit harder, and discovered around the side that you can still see some of the original building (at least I think so). I would like to think that maybe its still under that facade, but probably not...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...-/P1010179.jpg

There are several other buildings down here I am curious about, if they were given another facade or what. Ill take pictures and post them, maybe someone knows something about them...

Photos by me...I guess I have to say that?

gsjansen Oct 12, 2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick m (Post 5441515)
------ Sometimes going thru your FLICKR posts , I'd see one that'd recently been taken care of by meself --


you'll be sure to let me know when i need to correct something on one of my flickr posts! :)

and if no one has said it yet.....thanx for you're attention to detail, and making sure that los angeles's photographic history is perserved properly!

gsjansen Oct 12, 2011 11:23 AM

i don't think this charles c ebbets photograph had been posted before.........


Tee Time 1927

http://www.grandmas-attic.com/images/b740.jpg
Source: Grandma's Attic

GaylordWilshire Oct 12, 2011 1:17 PM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J...2520AM.bmp.jpgLAPL

GaylordWilshire Oct 12, 2011 1:51 PM

Soon to reappear downtown
 
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i...aurantsInc.jpgClinton's Restaurants Inc/L.A. Conservancy
648 S. Broadway


The 1963 screen is coming down--the progress as of Sunday:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6053/...fbc9b885b2.jpgFranklin Avenue


Quote:

Originally Posted by Horthos (Post 5441660)
...when I moved down here, before I discovered this thread, I was always curious about the pacific mutual building (6th and olive), I always thought it looked strange. When I learned that it was remuddled with a crappy facade, I went back and looked at it a bit harder, and discovered around the side that you can still see some of the original building (at least I think so). I would like to think that maybe its still under that facade, but probably not...

There are several other buildings down here I am curious about, if they were given another facade or what. Ill take pictures and post them, maybe someone knows something about them...

So, Horthos, keep an eye on this rare and "monumental" reveal for us...


Further reading:
http://www.franklinavenue.blogspot.com/
http://www.laconservancy.org/issues/..._cliftons.php4

Fab Fifties Fan Oct 12, 2011 6:11 PM

Clifton's Brookdale
 
Now THAT is great news GW. Even back in the 70's, Clifton's always looked dirty because the perforations on that awful screening were like smog residue magnets. It has always seemed like such a shame since the entryway tilework/terrazzo is so striking and beautiful!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4552/stoday.jpg
Google Streetview

Another great vintage photo, this one from 1936
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5...sbrookdale.jpg
Dick Whittington Collection/USC Digital Library

Too bad Clifton's Pacific Seas couldn't magically reappear! It was torn down in 1960 shortly after this photo was taken.
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8...andolive19.jpg
Los Angeles Herald-Examiner Collection/USC Digital Library

~Jon Paul

KevinW Oct 12, 2011 7:05 PM

Bunker Hill Backplate
 
You guys are going to love this. A nitrate backplate of 1940's Bunker Hill. Absolutely beautiful.

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/arc...ngeles/244590/

Enjoy!

Fab Fifties Fan Oct 12, 2011 8:53 PM

Carl's Restaurants
 
Back in July 2010, sopas_ej posted this photo of Carl's Restaurant and asked if anyone knew the location. The image is no longer coming up with the original post, so I'm reposting..

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1...rantsphoto.jpg
Dick Whittington Collection/USC Digital Library

Yesterday I found these matchbooks on e-bay and it appears there were two Carl's locations in Los Angeles, with this being the Flower and Figueroa location (and gone with the Harbor Fwy).

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7...estaurants.jpg
e-bay

I decided to take a Google Streetview looksee to find out if the Vernon and Crenshaw building was still there. It's not, but on the NW corner there is this streamline moderene gem! Does anyone know the history of this structure?

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3...ndcrenshaw.jpg
Google Streetview

~Jon Paul

ethereal_reality Oct 12, 2011 10:04 PM

:previous: The middle matchbook of Carl's-at-the-Beach is very interesting.
I don't recall any buildings along PCH that come even close to looking like the buildings on that matchbook.
It also says SEA AIR MOTOR APARTMENTS. So I guess one of their selling points is that you could arrive by boat, car or airplane.
...perhaps from the nearby Cloverfield Airport?

Does anyone know if this complex was ever built?

_________

The removal of that awful screen from Clifton's is great news indeed!

Fab Fifties Fan Oct 12, 2011 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5442509)
:previous: The middle matchbook of Carl's-at-the-Beach is very interesting.
I don't recall any buildings along PCH that come even close to looking like the buildings on that matchbook.
It also says SEA AIR MOTOR APARTMENTS. So one of their selling points is that you could come by boat, car or airplane.
...perhaps from the nearby Cloverfield Airport?

Does anyone know if this complex was ever built?

I have been looking around online for information since I first found the matchbooks. So far nothing, but I am a tenacious one so I'll keep digging:fingerscrossed:

I did however find out that the streamline moderne building I spied on Google was originally an Atlantic Richfield gas station and garage! Now, I must look for pictures......

~Jon Paul


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