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Nite Jun 25, 2021 6:03 PM

Here are the top 22 Canadian cities for under construction (12 floors +) as per Emporis and Martin Mtl

Toronto: 243
Montreal: 51
Mississauga: 31
Ottawa: 19
Calgary: 17
Brossard: 15
Vancouver: 15
Burnaby: 14
Vaughan: 13
Edmonton: 11
Waterloo: 8
Markham: 7
Windsor: 7
Richmond Hill: 6
Kitchener: 6
Kelowna: 6
Winnipeg: 5
Surrey: 5
Halifax: 5
Hamilton: 4
New Westminster: 4
Coquitlam: 4

Martin Mtl Jun 25, 2021 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9322412)
Here are the top 9 Canada cities for under construction (12 floors +) as per Emporis

Toronto: 243
Mississauga: 31
Montreal: 23
Ottawa: 19
Calgary: 17
Vancouver: 15
Burnaby: 14
Vaughan: 13
Edmonton: 11

There are 51 buildings under construction in Montreal of 12+storeys. This excludes anything build outside the city limits, like Laval or Brossard, which would add another 25 towers UC for a total of 76 UC buildings (there are about 15 in Brossard alone, just one bridge accros from Montreal)

WITHIN MONTREAL CITY LIMITS ONLY :

(floors - name)

63 - 900 St-Jacques/Moxy Hotel
61 - 1 Square Phillips
61 - Maestria est tower
58 - Maestria west tower
56 - Victoria sur le Parc
45 - 1000 De La Montagne
45 - 455 René-Lévesque south tower
44 - Solstice
40 - National Bank tower
37 - Appartements Dorchester
36 - 455 René-Lévesque north tower
36 - Le QuinzeCent
35 - Art de vivre
35 - 628 St-Jacques
33 - MAA condos
32 - Symphonia Pop
27 - Est/West condos 1
27 - Est/West condos 2
27 - Alexander Apartments 1
26 - Laurent & Clarke phase 2
26 - 271 Robert-Bourassa
25 - Alexander Apartments 2
25 - Le Duke
23 - Enticy condos
22 - YOO phase 2
22 - Mary Robert est tower
22 - Mary Robert west tower
21 - Roccabella 3
21 - 180 René-Lévesque
20 - Bass condos phase 5
20 - 1500 De Maisonneuve
20 - Place Viger
20 - Voltige, tour Belvédère
19 - 230 Peel 1
18 - Links Apparatments
18 - Le Mildoré
15 - 1124, rue de Bleury
16 - 230 Peel 2
16 - Apero Teasdale
14 - Galerye sur le canal phase 3
14 - Coopérative de la Montagne Verte
14 - Le Gabriel
13 - 2190 Sainte-Catherine Ouest
13 - Hilton Hampton Inn & Homewood Viger
12 - Serenity Lasalle
12 - Symphonia Sol
12 - Westbury Montreal phase 4
12 - Westbury Montreal phase 3
12 - Le Cent Onze
12 - Cornelius
12 - Curtis condos

Nite Jun 25, 2021 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl (Post 9322453)
There are 51 buildings under construction in Montreal of 12+storeys. This exclude anything build outside the city limits, like Laval or Brossard, which would add another 25 towers UC for a total of 76 UC buildings (there are about 15 in Brossard alone, just one bridge accros from Montreal)

Thank you, montreal numbers did seems small, list now updated

Northern Light Jun 25, 2021 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9322412)
Here are the top 22 Canadian cities for under construction (12 floors +) as per Emporis and Martin Mtl

Toronto: 243
Montreal: 51
Mississauga: 31
Ottawa: 19
Calgary: 17
Brossard: 15
Vancouver: 15
Burnaby: 14
Vaughan: 13
Edmonton: 11
Waterloo: 8
Markham: 7
Windsor: 7
Richmond Hill: 6
Kitchener: 6
Kelowna: 6
Winnipeg: 5
Surrey: 5
Halifax: 5
Hamilton: 4
New Westminster: 4
Coquitlam: 4

Leftcoaster here at SSP has been tracking Vancouver cranes (not projects).

He's at 174.

That clearly does not work with the numbers above, which even what you throw in the Vancouver suburbs look exceedingly low.

The link to Leftcoaster's recent post on this is here:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=114

JManc Jun 25, 2021 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark (Post 9322177)
Providence is part of the Boston CSA, which has over 8 million people.

So are parts of rural New Hampshire 70 miles away from Copley Square. Providence is pretty much it's own animal hence the separate MSA.

delts145 Jun 25, 2021 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale (Post 9322317)
Salt Lake City's MSA is about what...1.2 million? That feels about right for SLC. Having been there many times, I can definitely say it does not feel like a 2.6 million person metro. It's certainly doesn't feel anywhere near as large or substantial as a place like Pittsburgh or St. Louis. If you include basically all of northern Utah you get up to 2.6 million, but that seems like quite a stretch to claim that all as SLC. I mean, hell, the entire state of Utah is only 3.2 million!

Yes, I have spent a good part of my life in Salt Lake City, even more so than Southern Calif. Traveling from south to north it most definitely feels like an interconnected greater metro of around 2.7 million, especially these past five years. And yes, other than the St. George area the Wasatch Front is where almost the entire population of Utah resides. The rest is rural, smaller towns and either federal lands, State and National Parks, National Forests, or National Recreational Areas and Monuments. It sounds to me like you have been the occasional tourist traveling from the airport to the metro ski resorts on the metro's eastern fringe. Your comment that the entire State is only 3.2 million people so SLC can't be that big gives you away. If current growth rates continue the greater Salt Lake Wasatch Front Metro will be 3-plus million people by the end of this decade, and then it is on to 4 and 5 million. The only other greater metro area in Utah that will be of considerable size 20 years from now would be St. George. That area owes its hyper-growth to nearby Las Vegas, its milder climate, and spectacular outdoor lifestyle and scenery.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas (Post 9322348)
I just think MSA is more accurate in general than CSA. I think you can make a case that Ogden and Provo are part of SLC in some ways, and they are contiguous at this point, but they do feel like their own distinct cities to me.

SLC feels more like a city of 1.3 million. For a city that size, it has a pretty good skyline already and really good public transit (for a US city). It's definitely smaller than Denver and definitely bigger than Boise.


I agree with you on most matters regarding development Atlas but I think you're way overthinking it on this. Would you tell the very proud forum members in Boise that they can't include Meridian or members in Las Vegas can't include Henderson in their metro population because those areas wouldn't feel what you consider to be the same vibe as the more liberal downtown Boise. Henderson is in another Universe from the vibe of the Strip and should be left out of the greater Las Vegas metro? Please, if that were the case I would have to dismiss a majority of metro Los Angeles. Do you have any idea how many distinct districts there are in L.A.? Many are within a mile of each other and carry a much more distinct vibe than anything in the greater Salt Lake Wasatch Front. By what you seem to be describing as your definition of distinct vibes determining a greater metros size, the Wasatch Front is far more homogenous than many MSA/CSA's, especially L.A.

Nite Jun 25, 2021 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Light (Post 9322494)
Leftcoaster here at SSP has been tracking Vancouver cranes (not projects).

He's at 174.

That clearly does not work with the numbers above, which even what you throw in the Vancouver suburbs look exceedingly low.

The link to Leftcoaster's recent post on this is here:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=114

I am sure Leftcoasters numbers are more accurate than emporis, but with all crane counts how does it translate to builds under constructions since buildings can have various amount of cranes.

craigs Jun 25, 2021 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st (Post 9321954)
I think LA is 20-22 unless I'm forgetting some stuff. But 20-22 sounds right. Not great, as LA is still developing those midrises mostly.

Would that be for LA proper only?

edale Jun 25, 2021 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delts145 (Post 9322540)
Yes, I have spent a good part of my life in Salt Lake City, even more so than Southern Calif. Traveling from south to north it most definitely feels like an interconnected greater metro of around 2.7 million, especially these past five years. And yes, other than the St. George area the Wasatch Front is where almost the entire population of Utah resides. The rest is rural, smaller towns and either federal lands, State and National Parks, National Forests, or National Recreational Areas and Monuments. It sounds to me like you have been the occasional tourist traveling from the airport to the metro ski resorts on the metro's eastern fringe. Your comment that the entire State is only 3.2 million people so SLC can't be that big gives you away. If current growth rates continue the greater Salt Lake Wasatch Front Metro will be 3-plus million people by the end of this decade, and then it is on to 4 and 5 million. The only other greater metro area in Utah that will be of considerable size 20 years from now would be St. George. That area owes its hyper-growth to nearby Las Vegas, its milder climate, and spectacular outdoor lifestyle and scenery.





I agree with you on most matters regarding development Atlas but I think you're way overthinking it on this. Would you tell the very proud forum members in Boise that they can't include Meridian or members in Las Vegas can't include Henderson in their metro population because those areas wouldn't feel what you consider to be the same vibe as the more liberal downtown Boise. Henderson is in another Universe from the vibe of the Strip and should be left out of the greater Las Vegas metro? Please, if that were the case I would have to dismiss a majority of metro Los Angeles. Do you have any idea how many distinct districts there are in L.A.? Many are within a mile of each other and carry a much more distinct vibe than anything in the greater Salt Lake Wasatch Front. By what you seem to be describing as your definition of distinct vibes determining a greater metros size, the Wasatch Front is far more homogenous than many MSA/CSA's, especially L.A.

Let's see if they become a single MSA. Until then, it's unfair to use SLC's CSA numbers vs MSA numbers for other metros.

And I guess I could see SLC feeling like a 3 million person metro if you compare it to a place like the Riverside MSA. There's very little urbanity in SLC...a nice but small downtown. Some quasi urban/suburban neighborhoods around it, and then the rest is mostly straight up suburban. Provo hasn't been included in the SLC MSA because it's independent from SLC, has its own economy, and doesn't meet the commuting thresholds to be a unified MSA. I have no doubt this will occur in the future, but I think it will be quite a while before SLC feels anywhere remotely like a 3 million person metro.

mhays Jun 25, 2021 9:05 PM

Population growth is certainly a good clue! But it's not definitive, and volumes can vary tremendously within that metric.

Some of that is filling in past overbuilding. There might be very little construction until things tighten a bit.

Then you get a lag effect. If offices are 20% vacant, construction volumes might not really gain steam until it's 15% or 10%.

Cities also invest at very different levels. Some electorates enthusiastically support big infrastructure programs and others are more reticent.

Another factor is that a large percentage of all work is renovations and buildouts, not new construction. For example in richer areas, housing tends to be renovated more often, partially because the housing value will tend to rise more than the renovation cost.

dimondpark Jun 25, 2021 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9322497)
So are parts of rural New Hampshire 70 miles away from Copley Square. Providence is pretty much it's own animal hence the separate MSA.

Right, but the person I was replying to used Salt Lake CSA numbers while using MSA numbers for other areas.

wwmiv Jun 25, 2021 9:47 PM

Actually, SLC was previously single metro with Provo and Orem. Revisions in the 90s to the method (when CSAs were first created) broke this MSA apart as well as Greensboro’s and Raleigh’s and a few others. This is a case where it isn’t as clear cut as it first looks and if someone wants to bring in the additional data points, I think as long as they do so in a way that admits they’re comparing apples to oranges somewhat it’s fair.

My own opinion:

I don’t think SLC qualifies for this discussion currently. However, I do think SLC is putting the right policies with zoning and the region and state are putting together the right policies with transportation for eventual re-consolidation of the metro area into a single entity. The county commuter data and underlying core urban area may be only a few years off from the region qualifying again as a single MSA. Furthermore, those positive transportation network policies are poised to allow SLC to benefit from a larger region drawing progressively more commuting workers. 10-15 years from now, SLC downtown may be littered with 500-800 foot construction sites.

cabasse Jun 25, 2021 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. (Post 9320182)
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11

Per the atlanta projects construction compilation thread, which smArTaLlone does a great job of maintaining, it looks like the count (above 12 stories) in city proper is 36. 18 midtown, 12 downtown and beltline east, 6 buckhead. downtown has three buildings near or over 30 floors now under construction (40, 32, 29) and a handful of others over 20 - the first time in who knows how long where there is more activity downtown than in buckhead. hmm, maybe i'll go take the drone for a spin tonight

isaidso Jun 25, 2021 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli (Post 9320540)
Hey man im not shaming you guys. Most of us sometimes wish we were something we're not.

Speak for yourself. And your comment was 100% meant to insult despite your attempt to back pedal.

isaidso Jun 25, 2021 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9322412)
Here are the top 22 Canadian cities for under construction (12 floors +) as per Emporis and Martin Mtl


Toronto: 243
Montreal: 51
Mississauga: 31
Ottawa: 19
Calgary: 17
Brossard: 15
Vancouver: 15
Burnaby: 14
Vaughan: 13
Edmonton: 11
Waterloo: 8
Markham: 7
Windsor: 7
Richmond Hill: 6
Kitchener: 6
Kelowna: 6
Winnipeg: 5
Surrey: 5
Halifax: 5
Hamilton: 4
New Westminster: 4
Coquitlam: 4

The list emphasizes that 'city proper' isn't the best catchment area to use. A ton of construction happens beyond city limits in places like Vaughan, Mississauga, Surrey, Coquitlam, Markham, Brossard, Burnaby, New Westminster, Richmond Hill, etc. Metropolitan area makes more sense in many cases. I'm surprised to see Montreal CMA ahead of Vancouver CMA. Calgary CMA and Edmonton CMA are in a slump due to the steep decline of the Alberta oil industry.

Toronto CMA: 300
Montreal CMA: 66
Vancouver CMA: 42
Ottawa CMA: 19
Calgary CMA: 17
Kitchener-Waterloo CMA: 14
Edmonton CMA: 11
Windsor CMA: 7
Kelowna CMA: 6
Winnipeg CMA: 5
Halifax CMA: 5
Hamilton CMA: 4

delts145 Jun 25, 2021 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark (Post 9322735)
Right, but the person I was replying to used Salt Lake CSA numbers while using MSA numbers for other areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale (Post 9322685)
Let's see if they become a single MSA. Until then, it's unfair to use SLC's CSA numbers vs MSA numbers for other metros.

edale, Did you even look at the government list? I did not use MSA numbers for other areas with the exception of Providence, which was hidden in a long list of Boston MSA's, and I corrected that. Indeed, Providence is officially considered part of the Boston CSA, which I did not previously realize. Apparently, by official standards, Richmond Va. is its own MSA island without adjoining MSA's and is not listed as a CSA. All 175 CSA areas and their ranking by population as of 2020 are officially designated as such by the U.S. Census Bureau and U.S. Office of Budget and Management.

Again, here is the official list if you missed it the first time. If you think the official list is somehow unfair then take it up with the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

giallo Jun 25, 2021 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 9322851)
The list emphasizes that 'city proper' isn't the best catchment area to use. A ton of construction happens beyond city limits in places like Vaughan, Mississauga, Surrey, Coquitlam, Markham, Brossard, Burnaby, New Westminster, Richmond Hill, etc. Metropolitan area makes more sense in many cases. I'm surprised to see Montreal CMA ahead of Vancouver CMA. Calgary CMA and Edmonton CMA are in a slump due to the steep decline of the Alberta oil industry.

Toronto CMA: 300
Montreal CMA: 66
Vancouver CMA: 42
Ottawa CMA: 19
Calgary CMA: 17
Kitchener-Waterloo CMA: 14
Edmonton CMA: 11
Windsor CMA: 7
Kelowna CMA: 6
Winnipeg CMA: 5
Halifax CMA: 5
Hamilton CMA: 4

The Vancouver CMA has at least triple the number of what is shown here. Probably closer to quadruple the amount. The crane amount is down from 200 a couple of years ago, but the 42 number is totally inaccurate.

jamincan Jun 26, 2021 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9322412)
Here are the top 22 Canadian cities for under construction (12 floors +) as per Emporis and Martin Mtl
...
Kitchener: 6
...

FWIW, I think Emporis's database is out-of-date for Waterloo Region. In Kitchener alone I count 18 towers under construction according to waterlooregionconnected.com.

softee Jun 26, 2021 1:30 AM

^ Where's London, Ontario in that Canadian list?

montréaliste Jun 26, 2021 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee (Post 9322986)
^ Where's London, Ontario in that Canadian list?

Where is Laval?


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