SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   CHICAGO | Post Office Redevelopment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192697)

Zapatan Feb 3, 2012 8:47 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FnuKo9b8Q


So somewhere down the road there's a possibility for this site to be redeveloped into skyscrapers somehow it seems.

stormkingfan Feb 11, 2012 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 5355232)

I think the view from the northeast is best. It gives a better perspective of the scaling. The other views suggest that many other high-rises should be built south and west of this complex if built.

ChiSoxRox Feb 12, 2012 1:41 AM

I know this project is a pipe dream, but having a tower looming over the Sears would be an amazing sight.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 21, 2012 2:48 AM

Chicago Tribune

Fire erupts on roof of old Post Office

Quote:

Staff report

8:46 p.m. CST, February 17, 2012

A fire erupted tonight on the roof and a portion of the 10th floor of the old U.S. Post Officein the West Loop Gate neighborhood.

The fire started on the roof of the building, 433 W. Van Buren St., according to the Chicago Fire Department.

Fire Media Affairs Director Larry Langford said they also have fire on the 10th floor of the building, considered a high-rise.

No injuries have been reported as of 7:05 p.m. and crews continued to fight the blazes, Langford said.

About 6:30 p.m., a still and box alarm and an EMS Plan I, which automatically sends five ambulances to the scene, were called for the blaze, according to Langford.

As of about 7:30 p.m. firefighters hoisted by a large crane could be seen using portable lights to look into windows on the upper floors of the east side of the building.

The alarm was struck out and EMS Plan secured a little before 8 p.m., while cleanup and overhaul continued.

Police News Affairs Officer Veejay Zala said police also have not received any reports of injuries.

The 300 to 600 blocks of South Canal Street, the 300 to 600 blocks of West Van Buren Street, and the 200 to 500 blocks of West Harrison Street were closed while the fire was fought, according to a Central District police sergeant.

ChiPhi Feb 23, 2012 5:59 AM

:previous: looks like Davies is running into some more carrying costs...

N90 May 19, 2012 7:46 AM

I am of course a huge fan of Chicago and I sometimes open this thread to see whats going on but with the amount of posts in here (over 7,000!) its hard to keep up. So I don't know if anyone's posted this yet or not but I was hoping to ask for more information on this 120 story tower that seems to be making its way into Chicago's skyline in the future.

http://blog.chicagoarchitecture.info...me-434x500.jpg
http://blog.chicagoarchitecture.info...daylight-time/

nomarandlee May 19, 2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N90 (Post 5706208)
I am of course a huge fan of Chicago and I sometimes open this thread to see whats going on but with the amount of posts in here (over 7,000!) its hard to keep up. So I don't know if anyone's posted this yet or not but I was hoping to ask for more information on this 120 story tower that seems to be making its way into Chicago's skyline in the future.
[url]

Looky here

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=192697

XIII May 25, 2012 5:27 PM

Vision Video for old post office redevelopment.
It looks like they've modified the tower designs:
http://vimeo.com/42700645

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XIII (Post 5712966)
Vision Video for old post office redevelopment.
It looks like they've modified the tower designs:
http://vimeo.com/42700645

That looks awesome, I am surprised to see this move forward. When will we know whether it was approved ?

lawfin May 25, 2012 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld (Post 5713025)
That looks awesome, I am surprised to see this move forward. When will we know whether it was approved ?

Approved? Come on seriously. This is little more than modern media puffery. It ain't going to happen ok.

6.2 million sq feet of entertainment space
4.1 million sq feet of hotel some 7500 rooms

3.8 million sq feet of residential

Those numbers are massive. In perspective when the WTC complex was destroyed if I recall that was in total some 12 million sq feet of space this is planned at 2 million larger than that if you believe it you are a fool.

773shadow08 May 25, 2012 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XIII (Post 5712966)
Vision Video for old post office redevelopment.
It looks like they've modified the tower designs:
http://vimeo.com/42700645

This is more of a realistic proposal since the main tower has been scale back to a more reasonable height and thus the cost of building it reduces as well. Now the developers must work hard in finding possible tenants. The main tower looks to be the same height as either the Trump tower or the Aon building.

untitledreality May 25, 2012 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XIII (Post 5712966)
Vision Video for old post office redevelopment.
It looks like they've modified the tower designs:
http://vimeo.com/42700645

As lawfin said, this is simply more Media Puffery to artificially inflate the value of the property in hopes of a resale. There are so many problems in that 'vision plan' that it isn't even worth the time to analyze.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld (Post 5713025)
That looks awesome, I am surprised to see this move forward. When will we know whether it was approved ?

It isn't moving forward... and it will never be approved or built. At most we might see the area rezoned before being sold to another developer down the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 773shadow08 (Post 5713042)
This is more of a realistic proposal since the main tower has been scale back to a more reasonable height and thus the cost of building it reduces as well. Now the developers must work hard in finding possible tenants. The main tower looks to be the same height as either the Trump tower or the Aon building.

The height of the main tower was the least of this proposals problems. Altering the Old Post Office, obscuring view corridors of the Post Office, spanning the Eisenhower with another tower, spanning the Chicago River, 14million square feet of build out... none of those are even REMOTELY feasible, irregardless of the economic climate.

N90 May 25, 2012 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 5706238)

Haha before posting here, I had already viewed that thread. Uninformative to say the least, it was filled with speculation, pessimism, and doubt. While there's every reason to be any of the three characteristics above, its also not informative.

I'll just look into the project every couple of weeks to see if its going anywhere I suppose.

ardecila May 25, 2012 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 5713064)
The height of the main tower was the least of this proposals problems. Altering the Old Post Office, obscuring view corridors of the Post Office, spanning the Eisenhower with another tower, spanning the Chicago River, 14million square feet of build out... none of those are even REMOTELY feasible, irregardless of the economic climate.

I've never really understood the love everyone has for the Post Office. It blocks the most significant view corridor of the Burnham Plan and it's ugly as sin. The two end portions are nice and should probably be redeveloped but the gigantic portion in the middle should probably be demolished, at least partially... there's no way to get light into the center so that space is virtually useless.

If there is some crazy desire to save the Post Office and maintain the blocked vista, then I don't see why we also need to preserve views of the Post Office. It's not beautiful; we shouldn't curtail the rights of surrounding property owners so that we can stare at the 1930s monstrosity for all time... especially the east facade, which is by far the ugliest, most awkward part of the design.

untitledreality May 25, 2012 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5713106)
It blocks the most significant view corridor of the Burnham Plan

What view corridor? There is none until you pass under the Exchange building... then you're obstructed by the L... then you're obstructed by the rise over the IC... then FINALLY, when you apex the IC bridge you see Buckingham Fountain and the Lake. And going the other way? Would you rather just look down the Eisenhower?

Meanwhile, the Post Office building provides a Westward view termination point so we are not forced to look over the the Eisenhower... and for Eastward travelers it acts as a significant place holder... that you have 'entered' Chicago.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5713106)
there's no way to get light into the center so that space is virtually useless.

Then program that space with something that doesn't require a natural light source... or tear out a internal courtyard. There are a myriad of possibilities on how to reuse this building, it would be a shame to see someone just demolish parts and pieces of it... thank goodness it has local protection.

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5713106)
I've never really understood the love everyone has for the Post Office. It blocks the most significant view corridor of the Burnham Plan and it's ugly as sin. The two end portions are nice and should probably be redeveloped but the gigantic portion in the middle should probably be demolished, at least partially... there's no way to get light into the center so that space is virtually useless.

If there is some crazy desire to save the Post Office and maintain the blocked vista, then I don't see why we also need to preserve views of the Post Office. It's not beautiful; we shouldn't curtail the rights of surrounding property owners so that we can stare at the 1930s monstrosity for all time... especially the east facade, which is by far the ugliest, most awkward part of the design.

Yeah, I am loving the pessimism in this thread, the chances of this getting built are small, but it has been proposed, and the funding is there for the the first phase.

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 773shadow08 (Post 5713042)
This is more of a realistic proposal since the main tower has been scale back to a more reasonable height and thus the cost of building it reduces as well. Now the developers must work hard in finding possible tenants. The main tower looks to be the same height as either the Trump tower or the Aon building.

I would say the height of this scaled back design still has a roof height of probably 400-450 meters

Roadcruiser1 May 25, 2012 8:39 PM

I couldn't find a picture, and I can't take the clip out of the video so I made my own massing model of the new design. If you look closely at this design in the front and the back it looks very similar to the never fully completed Metropolitan Life North Building in New York.

Massing model.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7079/7...f3fd3e41_z.jpg

Metropolitan Life North Building.
http://www.replicabuildings.com/imag...posed-1024.jpg

bnk May 25, 2012 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5713036)
Approved? Come on seriously. This is little more than modern media puffery. It ain't going to happen ok.

6.2 million sq feet of entertainment space
4.1 million sq feet of hotel some 7500 rooms


3.8 million sq feet of residential

Those numbers are massive. In perspective when the WTC complex was destroyed if I recall that was in total some 12 million sq feet of space this is planned at 2 million larger than that if you believe it you are a fool.

I was going to say pretty much the same thing, although if this thing ever did happen the it would need a massive casino and hotel.

A 7500 room hotel would be in the top three of the largest hotels in the world.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

List of largest hotels in the world

Las Vegas has 16 hotels in the top 27 by number of rooms and the largest hotel in the world.
The largest Chicago hotel is ranked #53.

ChiPhi May 25, 2012 9:15 PM

I was laughing as I watched this. Where does he think the tourists will come from to fill 7500 rooms? And 2 million sq ft of office? 3.8 million of residential? The market simply doesn't exist in Chicago right now. Of course, this is not directly comparable to the WTC as Lawfin pointed out because it is mixed use, but many said that that project could never happen because it would flood the market and never find tenants. It is (very slightly) possible that, if done right, the complex could create the demand by becoming the biggest mall in America (Mall of America is 4.2 million sq ft. with 2.5 mil as retail space; this proposes 6.2 million sq ft. as "entertainment including retail and restaurants") with a supertall, maybe a casino et al.

Even given the slight chance Davies is able to pull this off and isn't just trying to flip it as he always does and this becomes the next Mall of America, do we really want that in the middle of our city? If it gets built (Bill Davies claims he is proffering the opportunity to middle eastern investors - sounds like The Spire and that turned out so well) I would still be unhappy. The design is a little better than the previous: the towers are more well articulated though not spectacular and the curtain wall facing east is nice, but blocks a landmark building. Moreover, a city within a city is an awful idea. What we need is not a giant enclosed, car-centric complex at the edge of the loop. Is this 1975? I hope Davies sells this off already so we can see some good (and realistic) proposals already.

Roadcruiser1 May 25, 2012 10:11 PM

The only other project I can think of that is similar to this besides the World Trade Center is the Hudson Yards project in New York City. I can't think of any other project this massive going on around the world.

Zapatan May 25, 2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5713036)
Approved? Come on seriously. This is little more than modern media puffery. It ain't going to happen ok.

6.2 million sq feet of entertainment space
4.1 million sq feet of hotel some 7500 rooms

3.8 million sq feet of residential

Those numbers are massive. In perspective when the WTC complex was destroyed if I recall that was in total some 12 million sq feet of space this is planned at 2 million larger than that if you believe it you are a fool.

well obviously someone wants to put something on that site, but I agree, it will likely be scaled back considering that is a ridiculous amount of space.

HomrQT May 25, 2012 10:50 PM

I particularly despise the way this project does not conform to the grid.

Zapatan May 25, 2012 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 773shadow08 (Post 5713042)
This is more of a realistic proposal since the main tower has been scale back to a more reasonable height and thus the cost of building it reduces as well. Now the developers must work hard in finding possible tenants. The main tower looks to be the same height as either the Trump tower or the Aon building.

the very last couple seconds of the video the tower looks about 1300 or so feet compared to 311 whacker drive, the angle is weird and sears is hardly visible.

I think this should be moved to the proposal section, now that it has been scaled back to a comprehendible size, I don't see why there is no potential of this going through someday.

denizen467 May 25, 2012 10:51 PM

Is the redesign also by Booth Hansen?

One litmus test as to whether even they are taking themselves seriously is whether or not the multi-story skywalk allows the legally required clearance above the river. Additional issues with it are whether it's even conceivable a private structure like this would be permitted to be built spanning the river (regardless of clearance), and why anyone would build a skywalk 8 stories tall. Did Larry Booth farm this out to his grandson or something?

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 (Post 5713298)
The only other project I can think of that is similar to this besides the World Trade Center is the Hudson Yards project in New York City. I can't think of any other project this massive going on around the world.

How about the 1100 meter Kingdom tower complex ? :cool:

Maybe this is Davies dream, who knows... but this is a possible proposal, now it's not very likely, but maybe, just maybe it could happen. Either way this should be moved to proposals, since it has been proposed

If Chicago built America's largest mall, that would bring a lot of tourists, could be a great move for Chicago

denizen467 May 25, 2012 11:06 PM

The video also includes the incredibly (and in the end absurdly) ambitious idea of decking over part of the Eisenhower a block west of the main structure - by building another low-rise about half the size of the post office itself.

Edit - just realized that was in the original proposal. Guess I never paid any of the details here much attention.

---

I think at this point we should stop panning these guys, because it's so pie-in-the-sky that even they probably aren't taking themselves seriously. Instead, since most agree this whole thing is vapor anyway, let's just appreciate they are toying with random visions for this part of the Loop, which nobody has really done before so expansively. Why not just let them dream, sell our city to the world, and maybe end up with at least 1 or 2 cool ideas (like doing some kind of decking of the expressway) at the end of the process?

Part of hosting NATO (among other city efforts) was to attract world interest in Chicago, so if deep-pocketed dreamers from 4000 (the UK) or 7000 (the Gulf) miles away get interested in building large projects here, why take potshots at them? No need to get offended that they are trying to fool us because we here get what is going on. Let's root for naive investors bringing $$ and redevelopment here.

Zapatan May 25, 2012 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld (Post 5713351)
. Either way this should be moved to proposals, since it has been proposed

Agreed, while this may be an out there proposal, it's still a proposal and not a vision.

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5713355)
Agreed, while this may be an out there proposal, it's still a proposal and not a vision.

Exactly, whether they want to think it's a vision or a proposal, it has been submitted for approval, which makes this an official proposal.

Zapatan May 25, 2012 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 5713064)
As lawfin said, this is simply more Media Puffery to artificially inflate the value of the property in hopes of a resale. There are so many problems in that 'vision plan' that it isn't even worth the time to analyze.


It isn't moving forward... and it will never be approved or built. At most we might see the area rezoned before being sold to another developer down the road.


The height of the main tower was the least of this proposals problems. Altering the Old Post Office, obscuring view corridors of the Post Office, spanning the Eisenhower with another tower, spanning the Chicago River, 14million square feet of build out... none of those are even REMOTELY feasible, irregardless of the economic climate.


It doesn't look to be 14 million square feet anymore, not even half that. If it wasn't a proposal then why did they go to all the trouble to make a video about it and change the massing of the building? I've also heard the project is set to go through an approval process sometime this year, but I can't verify that, I'll go look through SSC to see where that piece of information was.

I don't know why there would be all this hype if there was no actual plan to go through with it. I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but a vision means that it is pure fantasy, this is a feasable project.

BraveNewWorld May 25, 2012 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5713371)
It doesn't look to be 14 million square feet anymore, not even half that. If it wasn't a proposal then why did they go to all the trouble to make a video about it and change the massing of the building? I've also heard the project is set to go through an approval process sometime this year, but I can't verify that, I'll go look through SSC to see where that piece of information was.

I don't know why there would be all this hype if there was no actual plan to go through with it. I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but a vision means that it is pure fantasy, this is a feasable project.

Exactly

lawfin May 26, 2012 2:20 AM

The naive fanboysim on display is appalling. It ain't going to happen, it ain't feasible. Put it sure seems it will create quite a few wet dreams for certain forumers.

Nowhereman1280 May 26, 2012 2:38 AM

^^^ Welcome to the new SSP, LOL.

They'll learn though. It's the next cycle and newbies are getting excited about the new projects, it's a good thing in the long run...

Zapatan May 26, 2012 3:06 AM

I never said it would happen, I just said no one can provide any actual evidence that it won't.

And how is it not feasible? Far fetched? maybe.. impossible? not at all

lawfin May 26, 2012 3:30 AM

fea·si·ble   [fee-zuh-buhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
capable of being done, effected, or accomplished: a feasible plan.
2.
probable; likely: a feasible theory.
3.
suitable: a road feasible for travel.

Ch.G, Ch.G May 26, 2012 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5713502)
The naive fanboysim on display is appalling.

You're being generous. I'd call it aggressive ignorance.

BraveNewWorld May 26, 2012 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G (Post 5713699)
You're being generous. I'd call it aggressive ignorance.

We aren't saying it's likely, we are just saying that technically it is an proposal, and should be moved to the proposal section.

Zapatan May 26, 2012 7:19 PM

Quote:

The naive fanboysim on display is appalling.
unless you can tell me why this proposal is impossible, I will continue assuming that it is a proposal even if an unlikely one.

no one has yet to say why, that's what I asked and you didn't answer my question.

jd3189 May 26, 2012 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5713926)
unless you can tell me why this proposal is impossible, I will continue assuming that it is a proposal even if an unlikely one.

no one has yet to say why, that's what I asked and you didn't answer my question.

I guess they believe that like the Spire, this will not have a chance.

Buckman821 May 26, 2012 8:22 PM

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0jz3novys1r8ffrs.jpg

If you can't beat em join em:

This will look great on the skyline! Total GAME CHANGER! Can't wait for construction to start.

EAT YOUR HEART OUT DUBAI!

:banana::banana::banana:

lawfin May 26, 2012 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5713926)
unless you can tell me why this proposal is impossible, I will continue assuming that it is a proposal even if an unlikely one.

no one has yet to say why, that's what I asked and you didn't answer my question.

ECON 101

The question was answered it was implicit.

lawfin May 26, 2012 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckman821 (Post 5713959)
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0jz3novys1r8ffrs.jpg

If you can't beat em join em:

This will look great on the skyline! Total GAME CHANGER! Can't wait for construction to start.

EAT YOUR HEART OUT DUBAI!

:banana::banana::banana:

Pretty much number 1:cool:

Zapatan May 26, 2012 10:35 PM

yea ok...

here's a vidoe about it from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FnuKo9b8Q

Zapatan May 26, 2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 5713942)
I guess they believe that like the Spire, this will not have a chance.

I thought that was actually cancelled though with a very small chance of coming back to life.

Kngkyle May 26, 2012 10:54 PM

I think phase 1 isn't THAT unrealistic. Now phase 2 and phase 3... that might be another story.

nomarandlee May 26, 2012 11:16 PM

I could see some incarnation of plan two (probably with reduced height of the south tower) happen as well if all the stars align with a casino or other entertainment and retail venues sign on.

The 3rd phase east complex across the river is what brings the whole enterprise into totally fantasy land to me.

Roadcruiser1 May 27, 2012 12:17 AM

So from what I can get. They want to build this building so it would follow the old saying "Build it and they will come". Doesn't sound so bad to me.

Zapatan May 27, 2012 2:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 5714061)
I think phase 1 isn't THAT unrealistic. Now phase 2 and phase 3... that might be another story.

well if you're referring to the original plan in the video I posted it's been changed and is much smaller yet still containing a 400+ meter building, but it's obviously just a placeholder.

I just still don't see how this is a fantasy if they're actively trying to get approval from the city.

Chicago_Forever May 27, 2012 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 5713942)
I guess they believe that like the Spire, this will not have a chance.

Wrong...try again! The Spire was a real project and was more than just a proposal. I guess people forgot that the Spire sold a 3rd of its 1200 condos in just three or four months. If the world economy didn't fall off a cliff at the end of 2008 the Spire would have been built by now. Also, the Spire was in the planning stages for years. Only if it had been started about a year or so earlier the outcome could have been different. I remember reading an article where the developer of Lakeshore East said that if he had started moving on Aqua a few months later than he did it wouldn't have happened.

Anyway, most people don't think this project is for real for good reasons. I think it's possible if done in stages but even then it would still be almost impossible considering the size of it and the amount of competition, both present and future, in the surrounding area. I don't even think the city will allow the developer to make all those changes to the Old post office. And the sky bridge or whatever it is over the river is also questionable. I don't know if the city would allow that either. I think a lot of changes will have to be made before anyone thakes this development seriously.

Zapatan May 27, 2012 4:33 AM

^I still don't understand why they just don't continue the spire construction when the economy gets better if it was so succesful. What will they do with that big hole in the ground?

But as for this... The project has been scaled down clearly, it's not unrealistically large anymore, which means that it might be somewhat serious. They are trying to get the city's approval, so I don't see any big obstacle, Chicago has always been a YIMBY city. As for demand and competition they clearly state in the video that they will wait for demand to improve, I don't think they're trying to build this right now.


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.