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-   -   NEW YORK | Hudson Yards; 40 msf of development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123575)

aquablue Jan 25, 2012 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 5562785)
Right, they've said they want something like BPC but nothing regarding height, or density has been discussed, so before we say this project lacks vision or ambition lets wait for that, (keep in mind they're tearing down a nearly 1,000,000 square foot convention center to build a whole new neighborhood, inside of what will be a whole new neighborhood). If this project has anything it's ambition.

Plus, this is just part of the whole far west side redevelopment. So, even if we do get a BPC in terms of height, a handful of 500+ footers with smaller hotels and residential buildings, this new BPC could very well serve the same purpose as the existing one downtown, which is a complimentary aspect of the skyline, a sort of escalator to much larger buildings behind them where lot after lot is zoned for giant high rises.

Just to note, those large buildings behind have restricted FAR and you won't see a hypertall building there.

Anyway, why waste such prime space on small buildings? Why not zone so that if someone wants to build an extremely tall building, it will be allowed? Why would they want to restrict development here? I mean, there are no NIMBYs in this area and I don't get it, sorry. If some foreign investor from China or Dubai wanted to build the tallest building in Manhattan, why not allow some sites for that without restricting building size? Why so conservative? Is it because they want to spread development around the city and not have it all clustered over there, i.e, the new midtown east re-zoning proposal?

When you say they could keep the javitz area for lower buildings to complement the taller buildings behind, I don't understand why they would do that. Why would they have a bias towards those lots, and neuter the development capacity on the river? I ask this, because if this is the case, we won't be seeing any 600m buildings in NYC because those sites would not allow for it. Who says it is the best idea to have smaller buildings on the river anyway just because it has a nice aesthetic effect? HK seems to have manged nicely without that, hasn't it? Tall buildings on the water are the most dramatic and impressive as seen from afar.

I think they should be more open when it comes to zoning and stop trying to engineering everything to the letter. If they allowed taller buildings on the Javitz site, the developers on the lots behind would be forced to consider building taller if they wanted views. They should just let competition decide and stop being so restrictive. I have a terrible feeling they are going to waste this space on tiny high rises just because it 'looks good' or that it worked 'down there'.

yankeesfan1000 Jan 25, 2012 5:27 PM

Zoning for this lot is still a ways away so I think all your points, concerns, and questions are premature. Let's wait and see what type of zoning is applied here then this discussion will be more applicable.

I imagine the success of the Hudson Yards will have a major influence on the zoning applied though, and all indications are that it's going well so far. Related is starting on a 30 story apartment building right at the end of the high line this year, which is across the street from the first office building which will start later this year, and then there's the massive 1200+ unit Gotham West which is under construction on 45th I think.

So we could see this site zoned for large construction (which I think it probably will be for a number of reasons), or we could see smaller construction like BPC. But keep in mind BPC is home to 13,500 people, and has the WFC which has four buildings between 500 and 750 feet, and the NYMEX building which is 250 feet tall. That's still a decent size.

aquablue Jan 25, 2012 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 5563539)
Zoning for this lot is still a ways away so I think all your points, concerns, and questions are premature. Let's wait and see what type of zoning is applied here then this discussion will be more applicable.

I imagine the success of the Hudson Yards will have a major influence on the zoning applied though, and all indications are that it's going well so far. Related is starting on a 30 story apartment building right at the end of the high line this year, which is across the street from the first office building which will start later this year, and then there's the massive 1200+ unit Gotham West which is under construction on 45th I think.

So we could see this site zoned for large construction (which I think it probably will be for a number of reasons), or we could see smaller construction like BPC. But keep in mind BPC is home to 13,500 people, and has the WFC which has four buildings between 500 and 750 feet, and the NYMEX building which is 250 feet tall. That's still a decent size.

Still, zoning in this city appears rather conservative to me. That was my point. It appears they are trying to limit development in some way. I assume that this is to spread development around the city or pacify NIMBYS. I feel that they have something against very tall buildings in this city, otherwise the zoning for those sites on Hudson Yards would have allowed for unlimited FAR. If some Chinese or Arab wanted to make a statement in NYC and build a 500m+ building, or some other ego driven billionaire developer, there may be no sites that meet his needs. Why limit these opportunities? Is NY no longer the city where pushing the envelope is the order of the day?

RobertWalpole Feb 1, 2012 1:52 AM

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2012/01/...-on-the-block/

Hudson Yards development site on the block
January 30, 2012 04:00PM

http://therealdeal.com/wp-content/up...MOtnxIa111.jpg

From left: the site for sale in Hudson Yards and Robert Knakal, chairman at Massey Knakal
Another development site in the Hudson Yards special zoning district is on the block, according to a statement from the Massey Knakal Realty Services today. The plot, at 462-470 11th Avenue and 554 West 38th Street, encompasses approximately 320,000 buildable square feet over five adjacent parcels, the statement said.As it is currently zoned the site would work well for office buildings or hotels with a residential component, Robert Knakal, chairman at Massey Knakal, one of the site’s exclusive marketing agents, told The Real Deal. The residential component could comprise around 30 percent of any development built at the site, which is on the north side of 38th Street, he said. The site also offers “flexible height and setback requirements,” according to the statement.
While he declined to give pricing, Knakal did say that “because the property is on the avenue, we expect the pricing to achieve a preminum over what mid-block sites have been selling for.”

Massey Knakal is in contract to sell another parcel in the Hudson Yards area east of the available one, for $150 per square foot, Knakal said. Last January, 431-439 West 37th Street, a mid-block site between 37th and 38th streets sold for $18.7 million, or about $185 per square foot, but Knakal noted that that site was zoned for residential. — Guelda Voien

THE BIG APPLE Feb 1, 2012 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole (Post 5572073)
approximately 320,000 buildable square feet over five adjacent parcels

So is that an appox. 200 foot building. I did the calculations by hand (no calculator)

RobertWalpole Feb 1, 2012 3:11 AM

If it's residential/hotel, it could be around 750 feet.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 1, 2012 3:28 AM

^ We'll see many of those in the area.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 20, 2012 4:23 AM

jeffgunn

If this picture isn't a tall tale sign of what's to come, then I don't know what is.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/6...4d9e751b_b.jpg

aquablue Feb 20, 2012 6:58 PM

Nobody has talked about the retail base... it looks more interesting that the last iteration, with nice angular glassy forms. :sly:

THE BIG APPLE Feb 20, 2012 9:40 PM

The plaza in general will be something the West Side has never seen, Fountains and retail and benches and SPACE. Almost like Rockefeller Center, minus the skating rink (maybe they'll add one)(NYC can't have too few skating rinks).

RobertWalpole Feb 23, 2012 2:37 AM

Can someone post the photo of the fountain that appears on pages 46-47 of Related's HY brochure? That photo shows how long this multi-story fountain will be. It's amazing.

http://www.related.com/destinations/...20Brochure.pdf

PS: I have no idea how to copy and paste a pdf photo.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 23, 2012 2:45 AM

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...p_image002.jpg

THE BIG APPLE Feb 23, 2012 2:48 AM

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N...p_image002.jpg

RobertWalpole Feb 23, 2012 2:51 AM

Thanks. This is the one I was referring to. This fountain will be huge! It looks to be around 3 stories tall and at least 30m long.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N...p_image002.jpg

NYguy Feb 23, 2012 1:57 PM

_____________________________________


http://www.qgazette.com/news/2012-02...ino_Plans.html

Quote:

Cuomo is also proposing to build the largest convention center in America on the grounds of Aqueduct Race Track. It would replace the Jacob Javits Center, which has for the quarter-century of its existence been deplored as too small and, being in relative isolation in the far western part of Midtown Manhattan, too out-of-the-way. Perales said the governor would like to see the Javits Center replaced by housing and a full plan for West Midtown redevelopment, rather than the partial measures thus far taken.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...sb5nBzwMr5a7qN

Javits wiggle room: Andy

By FREDRIC U. DICKER
February 23, 2012

Quote:

Gov. Cuomo yesterday strongly suggested he’s willing to compromise on his plan to replace the Javits Convention Center on the West Side with a Battery Park City-style development while building a huge new center at Aqueduct Race Course in Queens.

“You could leave part of Javits,’’ said Cuomo, when asked about criticism that Manhattan hotels will be hurt and some exhibitors won’t want to travel to Jamaica when coming to the city for trade shows.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 23, 2012 3:40 PM

DeJaVuSG

I think this pic shows (gives an idea) of what's to come.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6...ff81bd7d_b.jpg

The OLD Convention Center was derelict and had to move. That where the current Time Warner Center sits, today. This Convention Center (Javits) it now slowly being categorized in that category. I say at least TRY to find a property in Manhattan (be it Uptown) and build a state of the art Convention Center there, so that even 60 years from now people will say 'we can't demolish that'. But as with Radio Row, where the businesses HAD to move (for the expansion of the Financial District), the Convention Centers gotta go, this space IS necessary.

aquablue Feb 23, 2012 5:49 PM

The conventioneers are not happy about having to move to the bowels of Queens from Manhattan. There was an article in the Times about it. I don't think this move will happen, or if it does, the Javitz will remain with the new convention center.

THE BIG APPLE Feb 23, 2012 6:20 PM

Well one day the Javits land WILL be developed. You can't delay the inevitable, whether it's in the next 10 years, or in a hundred years. Whether it's in our lifetime or not. It's just going to take the state and politicians and developers (present or future) to figure out a plan.

THE BIG APPLE Mar 1, 2012 11:26 PM

Arawooho

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...6837239734.jpg

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0448649000.jpg

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0448686036.jpg

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0448681290.jpg

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0467669899.jpg

yankeesfan1000 Mar 2, 2012 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 5602307)
The conventioneers are not happy about having to move to the bowels of Queens from Manhattan. There was an article in the Times about it. I don't think this move will happen, or if it does, the Javitz will remain with the new convention center.

This land is way too valuable to be left as a convention center. The further the Hudson Yards development progresses, the more valuable the land will become, so it's really only a matter of time.

Plus, even if you do keep the Javits Center, NY needs a bigger convention center anyway, something that's around 1M sf for by far the biggest city in the country just doesn't cut it.

I really don't want this to come across as sounding like I'm calling you out, but again at the end of the day, NY needs a new convention center anyway so, even after this expansion, Chicago's McCormick will still be almost 3 times the size of the 'new' Javits Center. So where would you put a new convention center? That's the big problem. There isn't really anywhere to put a big convention center in Manhattan, or downtown Brooklyn, and the waterfront along the East River in Queens and Brooklyn is becoming too valuable as well.

I think the best scenario is still have this Malaysian company build a new facility out at the Aqueduct or maybe Willits Point, turn what is currently the Javits Center into a Battery Park City type of development, and then maybe a smaller boutique convention space in the western half of the Farley Post Office.


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