SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   NEW YORK | Hudson Yards; 40 msf of development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123575)

THE BIG APPLE Jan 5, 2012 1:06 PM

Then what was the point of giving Mr. I.M Pei all that hard work in the 70's when you're just going to tear it down. Well more buildings the better (if done right).

yankeesfan1000 Jan 5, 2012 1:44 PM

Thanks for the articles. I can't even begin to imagine how nice that area will be in 20 years if this plan for a new convention center goes through. Seems like it will, the Javits Center was deemed too small basically the day it opened if I'm not mistaken.

NYguy Jan 5, 2012 2:01 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/ny...in-queens.html

A Convention Center at Aqueduct Is Urged

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
January 4, 2012

Quote:

A new 3.8-million-square-foot exhibition hall and hotel at the Aqueduct racetrack in Jamaica, Queens, would free up 18 windswept acres owned by the state overlooking the Hudson River in Midtown Manhattan, a site occupied since the 1980s by the much- maligned Jacob K. Javits Convention Center.

The land could fetch billions of dollars from developers, say state officials, urban planners and real estate executives. That could plug budget gaps and pay for expensive projects, like expanding Pennsylvania Station.

“The Javits site is worth $4 billion,” said Robert Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association. “You can release that value and use it for the long-term advantage of city and state. All by itself, the convention center in Queens becomes the biggest urban development project in the country.”

After the Javits center is demolished, the state would develop a master plan for housing, hotels and museums on the site, between 34th and 40th Streets and west of 11th Avenue, and sell or lease the land to developers.


THE BIG APPLE Jan 5, 2012 10:00 PM

I don't know why they opened a convention center in Manhattan, yet there isn't a football stadium for either of the two teams, always really surprised me. But in my opinion Manhattan should be mostly BUILDINGS.

NYguy Jan 5, 2012 10:21 PM

NIMBYs already out with ideas of their own for the Javits site...
http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...NA_1420122.pdf

J. Will Jan 5, 2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5538862)
I don't know why they opened a convention center in Manhattan, yet there isn't a football stadium for either of the two teams, always really surprised me. But in my opinion Manhattan should be mostly BUILDINGS.

Convention centres are buildings. And what's a football stadium got to do with anything?

A city's principal convention centre should be within walking distance of thousands of hotel rooms where the conventioneers will be staying, or at least a VERY short cab or transit ride away. Putting a huge convention centre way the hell out in Queens, miles from where most of the hotels are doesn't make much sense to me.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 4:09 AM

^ I think Manhattan wouldn't mind being one exception, becuause there's just too much demand for buildings. WHY? Money. Why did the old Penn Station get demolished for a new toilet complex? Money. So I would expect the Javits to go but not yet. I think they're still doing an expansion.

Stained Jan 6, 2012 4:36 AM

It makes sense to me to keep some kind of convention center in Manhattan. It is the center of the city and the center of the world. Build one in Queens if you want, but never rule out one in Manhattan. The bigger, the better. With New York, you are always building for years down the road, not just the next year or two. I hope the plans continue for this development though. It is very exciting.

NYC4Life Jan 6, 2012 4:45 AM

With the Javits getting an expansion, it would be foolish to immediately demolish it. The Javits should remain standing and redeveloped to become more modern and large enough to host major events and trade shows. Having to travel to the outskirts of Queens for trade shows is a bit inconvenient unless mass transit is approved. After all, there is nothing wrong with having NYC be the home of two major convention centers. Most tourists to NY almost never venture outside of Manhattan.

NYguy Jan 6, 2012 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC4Life (Post 5539379)
With the Javits getting an expansion, it would be foolish to immediately demolish it.

The current expansion is a minor one. And even with that it will still be under 1 msf. In short, it's a convention center that isn't serving the purpose it was intended to. Now with the redevelopment of the Hudson Yards, that land has become increasingly more valuable, especially as the largest development site in Manhattan. Years ago, it made sense to put it there because nothing was there, but now there is a chance to correct that.

I won't discuss the merits of a convention center in Queens because that's another thread.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 9:32 PM

Then why not put the convention center on the east side, south of the UN, and we got all this extra space then.

Crawford Jan 6, 2012 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5540305)
Then why not put the convention center on the east side, south of the UN, and we got all this extra space then.

Because the land in Manhattan is far too valuable for a low-slung convention center.

And that land you're referring to was sold by Con Edison for about $5 billion maybe 10 years ago. Can you imagine what it's worth now?

Why would the state spend billions for Manhattan land (and billions more for construction costs), when it can get a free convention center in Queens?

And pretty much all major global cities have their convention centers outside of the core. London, Paris, Tokyo all have convention centers on the fringe.

Hotels are a non-issue. There are no major hotels close to Javits anyways. Genting plans 3,000 hotel rooms on the Queens site.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 6, 2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE (Post 5539352)
^ I think Manhattan wouldn't mind being one exception, becuause there's just too much demand for buildings. WHY? Money. Why did the old Penn Station get demolished for a new toilet complex? Money. So I would expect the Javits to go but not yet. I think they're still doing an expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5540332)
Because the land in Manhattan is far too valuable for a low-slung convention center.

Exactly.

aquablue Jan 7, 2012 4:35 AM

If the LIRR link is opened some day, transit won't be a problem. Also, it is near the airport which is very convenient for visitors arriving for conventions, especially if the rail link is direct from JFK and hotel facilities are built.

Rey88 Jan 7, 2012 1:12 PM

Well, if the Javits will be demolish, i hope for a new super complex project like this:

http://static.flickr.com/69/198571330_a4e0eed66d.jpg

or for a single office/hotel tall tower... :tup:

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/442/nyse1.jpg

Dac150 Jan 8, 2012 5:20 PM

This sounds overly ambitious, however I think that as time progresses and space in Manhattan becomes more scarce, a hulking building such as the Javits Center is almost counter productive as it eats up too much valuable land. A modern convention center located in proximity to JFK would make much more sense IF the proper transportation accommodations were in place. I hope Cuomo remains consistent with this and pushes it through.

NYguy Jan 8, 2012 11:15 PM

http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=5833

Lucky Seven: New York's 7 line extension steams ahead.

http://archpaper.com/uploads/image/7_subway_01.jpg
Detail of the lower mezzanine's arc.


Jan 7, 2012

Quote:

In the waning days of 2011, Shawn Kildare gave a tour 130 feet below Eleventh Avenue. Kildare, a senior vice president at the MTA, delivered some good news to the small group gawking at the huge caverns carved for the Number 7 Subway Extension. The project, he said, is ten months ahead of schedule and under budget. With the Second Avenue subway progressing in fits and starts, hobbled by community complaints, the new Number 7, which boasts few residential neighbors, looks poised to take the prize as New York’s newest subway exension.

The new station, engineered by Parsons Brinkerhoff, will take one of the system’s busiest train lines from its westernmost terminus at Times Square, to Eleventh Avenue and 34th Street—and perhaps, one day, to New Jersey. The extension may prove a viable alternative to the regional tunnel that New Jersey governor Chris Christie squashed in 2010. As currently planned, the new station will serve the mass-transit-challenged Javits Center and Related Hudson Yards project, to say nothing of Brookfield Properties’ Manhattan West proposal. It will accommodate 25,000 commuters per hour, and an additional six trains added to the line will find room to park and/or maneuver on extra tracks positioned just north and south of the new subway platform.

Along Eleventh Avenue the tunnel dodged Amtrak and Lincoln Tunnel tubes before curving east to meet the existing Number 7 tracks. This meant digging beside the Port Authority Bus Terminal while passengers disembarked 20 feet away. A few blocks west, the sandhogs borrowed beneath the Times Square/Eighth Avenue pedestrian passageway while commuters crisscrossed overhead.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_04.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_05.jpg
Workers prepare a new communication center beneath Eleventh Ave. as ventilation rises at right.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_10.jpg
Subgrade work continues for parkland entrance to subway.


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_04.jpg
Two tunnels run east to meet the park entranc


http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_01.jpg
Cross section from left to right (west to east) shows tracks and lower mezz, escalators, upper mezz, and park entrance.



More images...

http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_03.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_07.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_02.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/7_subway_rendering_03.jpg

J. Will Jan 9, 2012 12:09 AM

Are the Hudson Yards towers going to have their own entrances to the stations, or will workers have to walk outside just to get to the subway? The pdf brochure they released a few months ago didn't seem to show any entrances from the towers interiors.

THE BIG APPLE Jan 9, 2012 12:20 AM

I think a few will. That's the reason I'm certain the Girasole is delayed, because they have to complete the stations underneath the site. Most of the buildings won't.

scalziand Jan 9, 2012 12:55 AM

The HKNA plan for the Javits site is better than I thought it would be. It restores the street grid to most of the site without cluttering the WSH up with too many intersections, and connecting the whole neighborhood to the waterfront with a bridge over the WSH.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7359/javitts.png

I do think that it has more green space than necessary though.


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.