SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

chicagopcclcar1 Feb 16, 2015 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 6917173)
I The MED is semi-useless because of it's scheduling format, and fare disconnect from CTA.

WOW! I never thought I would see you admit this. Maybe you see now I why I was so against you arguing that Metra Electric was better than the CTA Red line extension.

DH

Tcmetro Feb 17, 2015 4:59 AM

I think it's fair to point out that the problems with Metra's Electric District line are organizational and aren't related to infrastructure at all.

The trains are there, the stations are there, the operators are there. It's simply a matter of Illinois politicians not caring to change the situation, and the transit leadership being territorial and working against the public interest because it is easy for them to do so.

But whatever, I guess it's ok for Metra and CTA to run duplicative services because they are separate agencies, but it's not ok for CTA to operate a Lincoln Ave bus and the Brown Line. Let's just throw money away and let the infrastructure rot.

CTA Gray Line Feb 17, 2015 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagopcclcar1 (Post 6917625)
WOW! I never thought I would see you admit this. Maybe you see now I why I was so against you arguing that Metra Electric was better than the CTA Red line extension.

DH

The Metra Electric is useless in it's PRESENT OPERATING FORMAT as a suburban commuter rail service, and it would certainly NOT be better than the Red Line Extension OPERATING IN IT'S PRESENT UNALTERED FORM; That is NOT my plan for it, did or do you recognize that David?

I want to put big CTA Decals on the sides of the Metra Electric trains, run them every 10 minutes instead of every 1 to 2 hours, and install CTA/Ventra TVM's and Turnstyles in the in-city Metra stations. Did you even look at any of my websites, for you to be able to get the concept so COMPLETELY W R O N G!!

THAT IS NOTHING LIKE the present useless Metra suburban commuter train operation, the MED would become part of CTA's "L" system as the Gray Line; functionally just the same the same as any other CTA "L" line, except using CTA decaled Metra Electric trains; and some people seem to think that it is a very good idea, as it has E A R N E D second place in popularity in the Museum Campus Transportation Study (read all the comments on the Gray Line Project idea): http://www.grayline.20m.com/photo3.html
http://www.civicartworks.com/project...opular&phase=1

Understand now, or do you need further explanation David?

CTA Gray Line Feb 18, 2015 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcmetro (Post 6918003)
I think it's fair to point out that the problems with Metra's Electric District line are organizational and aren't related to infrastructure at all.

The trains are there, the stations are there, the operators are there. It's simply a matter of Illinois politicians not caring to change the situation, and the transit leadership being territorial and working against the public interest because it is easy for them to do so.

But whatever, I guess it's ok for Metra and CTA to run duplicative services because they are separate agencies, but it's not ok for CTA to operate a Lincoln Ave bus and the Brown Line. Let's just throw money away and let the infrastructure rot.

THANK YOU Tcmetro, I can see that you understand the situation clearly and exactly, and what I am tilting-at-windmills in trying to change.

Sometimes I think DH purposely misunderstands what I am proposing, as if I were saying to use the MED IN IT'S PRESENT OPERATING FORMAT as an alternative to the RLE; and something like that would . n e v e r . E V E R . work! N O B O D Y would use that type of
service, so in M I S-interpreting it in his way he is correct.

David, can you please explain to us why >> WITH THE UPGRADES THAT I PROPOSE << that the MED could not become an integrated
part of the CTA "L" system? (and I need these contrasting opinions in order to form viable answers and solutions)

Have at me..... And P L E A S E don't fall off the face of the Earth and ignore/not answer the question!

orulz Feb 18, 2015 10:33 PM

If you want to get right down to it the cheapest way to do what you are proposing would be to leave the CTA out of it almost entirely. No turnstiles, no new decals, no new CTA lines, no new CTA maps. Plus this would benefit all Metra lines and riders, not just the ME.

1. Boost the ME schedule.
2. Use Ventra for fares on Metra (Tap-in/Tap-out)
3. Have Discounted CTA-Metra transfers when using Ventra
4. Reduce Metra fares within the city to match (or at least be more comparable to) CTA

Transfers would be handled as below:
Metra->CTA: All such transfers are free. tapping out activates a window (30-60 minutes?) in which the user can do a free transfer to CTA.
CTA->Metra: When tapping in for Metra, if the user has paid a CTA fare in some window (60-90 minutes?) the value of the CTA fare paid is deducted from the cost of the Metra fare.

Since the transfer works in both directions, CTA and Metra share the burden of the free transfers.

There certainly are organizational barriers to the above but I think they are no higher, and in fact perhaps lower than, the barriers for your Gray Line proposal.

chicagopcclcar1 Feb 19, 2015 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 6920286)
If you want to get right down to it the cheapest way to do what you are proposing would be to leave the CTA out of it almost entirely. No turnstiles, no new decals, no new CTA lines, no new CTA maps. Plus this would benefit all Metra lines and riders, not just the ME.

There certainly are organizational barriers to the above but I think they are no higher, and in fact perhaps lower than, the barriers for your Gray Line proposal.

BINGO!! Should have done this 15 years ago. You are NOT the CTA.

Kenmore Feb 19, 2015 3:16 PM

Rauner is going to make this thread painful

MayorOfChicago Feb 19, 2015 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenmore (Post 6921095)
Rauner is going to make this thread painful

decades of Illinois politics catching up......

I was upset when I read about it yesterday afternoon....but really SOMETHING had to give on the spending side. I'm all for raising some new revenues, but the state dug itself into a hole FAR larger than just raising some revenue will help. It also dug that hole for YEARS longer than it ever should have.

I do think the transit agencies have trimmed themselves as much as they can though really. There's a lot of excess, waste and insane perks and benefits given via pensions, etc. in the state government, but I really don't see transit as a big culprit here.

What would 7% of the operating budget do as far as cuts? Would they probably try to cancel some projects and shove that money over? The buses always take the brunt of the service cuts I feel because the trains (at least the brown/red/blue) are a great deal of the service on the system and you don't really have room to cut there if you actually want to be able to cram people onto the trains - which is very hard now at rush hour.

schwerve Feb 19, 2015 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 6921138)
decades of Illinois politics catching up......

I was upset when I read about it yesterday afternoon....but really SOMETHING had to give on the spending side. I'm all for raising some new revenues, but the state dug itself into a hole FAR larger than just raising some revenue will help. It also dug that hole for YEARS longer than it ever should have.

I would agree if the pain was shared across transit agencies. Unfortunately most of the $128 Million cut from the RTA essentially went to increase the budget of road construction by $120 Million.

ardecila Feb 19, 2015 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 6921138)
What would 7% of the operating budget do as far as cuts? Would they probably try to cancel some projects and shove that money over? The buses always take the brunt of the service cuts I feel because the trains (at least the brown/red/blue) are a great deal of the service on the system and you don't really have room to cut there if you actually want to be able to cram people onto the trains - which is very hard now at rush hour.

Or you raise fares to make up the difference. $80 million divided by the 500 million annual riders of CTA is only about $0.16 per trip.

The adoption of Ventra means that CTA doesn't need to set fares at round amounts - they can increase the fares by exactly what they need to make up the difference, even if it makes the rail fare $2.41.

MayorOfChicago Feb 19, 2015 8:28 PM

Also of course the fact it's the house/senate agains the governor for the most part. Rauner is coming in guns blazing on his side of the fence, and the legislature will come back from their end.....and hopefully meet somewhere in the middle.

I would like to assume the pain of cuts will be mitigated a bit. Like trying to buy a house, each party hits the other high and low, and meet in the middle.

At least he said he was open to finding new revenue sources at some point.

CTA Gray Line Feb 20, 2015 2:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagopcclcar1 (Post 6921068)
BINGO!! Should have done this 15 years ago. You are NOT the CTA.

QUITE CLEARLY on the lower-right corner of my fliers it says in small bold easy-to-read capital letters: "NOT AFFILIATED WITH CTA OR METRA":
http://www.grayline.20m.com/


I've known that I am NOT the CTA for a long time; that doesn't mean that I can't submit ideas for better operations; and whatever you
may say or think, a lot of people do support the idea -- the Project E A R N E D second place in the Mayor's Study (by votes, and people's comments): http://www.civicartworks.com/project...opular&phase=1 Which the Mayor stopped/halted/quashed because ALL the ideas in
the Study were to receive Analysis, and Detailed ILLUSTRATION in the Media by the end of December (in MPC and CDOT's own words).

CTA Gray Line Feb 20, 2015 8:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 6920286)
If you want to get right down to it the cheapest way to do what you are proposing would be to leave the CTA out of it almost entirely. No turnstiles, no new decals, no new CTA lines, no new CTA maps. Plus this would benefit all Metra lines and riders, not just the ME.

1. Boost the ME schedule.
2. Use Ventra for fares on Metra (Tap-in/Tap-out)
3. Have Discounted CTA-Metra transfers when using Ventra
4. Reduce Metra fares within the city to match (or at least be more comparable to) CTA

Transfers would be handled as below:
Metra->CTA: All such transfers are free. tapping out activates a window (30-60 minutes?) in which the user can do a free transfer to CTA.
CTA->Metra: When tapping in for Metra, if the user has paid a CTA fare in some window (60-90 minutes?) the value of the CTA fare paid is deducted from the cost of the Metra fare.

Since the transfer works in both directions, CTA and Metra share the burden of the free transfers.

There certainly are organizational barriers to the above but I think they are no higher, and in fact perhaps lower than, the barriers for your Gray Line proposal.

orulz, over this weekend I will go over the reasons for the things in my plan.

Question: Why doesn't CTA use Tap-in/Tap-out system-wide on the "L", if it is indeed better and cheaper, instead of TVM's and turnstiles. Also tito would not keep non-riders (vandals, robbers) off the platforms, a security exposure for passengers and property.

And Metra is going for Apps in Smartphones, so they are not using tito either.

Justin_Chicago Feb 20, 2015 1:23 PM

Loop 'Connector' Plan Back From the Dead, Again

Article: http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150...rom-dead-again

the urban politician Feb 20, 2015 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Chicago (Post 6922403)
Loop 'Connector' Plan Back From the Dead, Again

Article: http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150...rom-dead-again

This really needs to happen. Period.

It's actually quite startling how ineffective Chicago's rail system is for getting you anywhere but the Loop

Mr Downtown Feb 20, 2015 3:41 PM

^What other corridors or employment centers have the kind of demand needed to justify rail lines?

the urban politician Feb 20, 2015 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6922543)
^What other corridors or employment centers have the kind of demand needed to justify rail lines?

N Mag Mile, Northwestern, Navy Pier.

Lets not forget recreational destinations. Are they not worthy of rail transit?

Most other "global" cities in the world don't have such criteria

Justin_Chicago Feb 20, 2015 5:19 PM

I spend most of my free time in UK Village, West Town, Logan Square, Humboldt Park, Lincoln Square, and Bucktown. Many people that live along the lakefront would agree with me that public transit to these areas is awful. You essentially have to take a Red line out of your way and connect with an over crowded bus that is moving at a snail's pace due to East-West car traffic (#72, #70, #66, #80, etc.) or transfer to a Blue line train. How can you look at the rail maps of Paris, Tokyo, Moscow, Washington DC, NYC and London and not get jealous? This city desperately needs an outer loop that connects multiple rail lines. And please do not start an argument about the improved economics of BRT. People's perception will always be that rail is superior to bus. I take an express bus every morning to the office and my wait time is either 6 minutes or 22 minutes. The timing is always off. At least CTA rail provides consistent wait times and you can hide from the cold at most stations.

A downtown circulator would help with tourism, but a new rail line like the Circle Line would be a game changer in my opinion.

Kenmore Feb 20, 2015 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Chicago (Post 6922709)
I spend most of my free time in UK Village, West Town, Logan Square, Humboldt Park, Lincoln Square, and Bucktown. Many people that live along the lakefront would agree with me that public transit to these areas is awful. You essentially have to take a Red line out of your way and connect with an over crowded bus that is moving at a snail's pace due to East-West car traffic (#72, #70, #66, #80, etc.) or transfer to a Blue line train. How can you look at the rail maps of Paris, Tokyo, Moscow, Washington DC, NYC and London and not get jealous? This city desperately needs an outer loop that connects multiple rail lines. And please do not start an argument about the improved economics of BRT. People's perception will always be that rail is superior to bus. I take an express bus every morning to the office and my wait time is either 6 minutes or 22 minutes. The timing is always off. At least CTA rail provides consistent wait times and you can hide from the cold at most stations.

A downtown circulator would help with tourism, but a new rail line like the Circle Line would be a game changer in my opinion.

I essentially don't visit the neighborhoods you listed because it's a 3 hour round trip.

UPChicago Feb 20, 2015 5:47 PM

I don't go anywhere other than the loop by public transit, I drive everywhere else, unless it is off of the Red Line. If getting to Wicker Park was as easy as getting to the loop I would probably take PT.


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.