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Urbana May 30, 2013 5:37 PM

Elon Musk's grand transportation vision
 
At the D11 conference, transportation pioneer and Paypal founder Elon Musk briefly discussed a mass transit idea he is actively working on. He calls it the hyperloop.

Quote:

Elon Musk has plans — or maybe it's just an idea — for a brand new form of transportation.
He calls it the "Hyperloop," and it's a way to travel long distances quickly.
At the D11 conference Musk danced around the topic a bit. He didn't want to talk about the Hyperloop because he wanted the focus of his interview to be Tesla.
The most he would say is that the Hyperloop is a "cross between a Concorde, a railgun and an air hockey table."
In the past, Musk has been slightly more forthcoming with Hyperloop details.
"This system I have in mind, how would you like something that can never crash, is immune to weather, it goes 3 or 4 times faster than the bullet train," said Musk last July. "It goes an average speed of twice what an aircraft would do. You would go from downtown LA to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes. It would cost you much less than an air ticket than any other mode of transport. I think we could actually make it self-powering if you put solar panels on it, you generate more power than you would consume in the system. There's a way to store the power so it would run 24/7 without using batteries. Yes, this is possible, absolutely.
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-...perloop-2013-5

Far fetched as it may sound, if anyone can revolutionize transport it is Elon Musk.

Busy Bee May 30, 2013 6:46 PM

Musk's great great grandchildren will be so honored on opening day.

Arquitect May 30, 2013 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbana (Post 6146948)
At the D11 conference, transportation pioneer and Paypal founder Elon Musk briefly discussed a mass transit idea he is actively working on. He calls it the hyperloop.



http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-...perloop-2013-5

Far fetched as it may sound, if anyone can revolutionize transport it is Elon Musk.

I agree with the fact that Musk is an awesome visionary, and is doing really amazing things, but I'm not sure how much I buy this idea without any concrete information. How exactly does it work? I'm sure he has much more though (and money) behind it, but for now it still is a dream. Hopefully he can get it rolling.

ardecila May 30, 2013 7:46 PM

The last "earth-shattering revolution" in transportation was the Segway, so forgive my suspicion.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2506/homerensegway.png

Alon May 31, 2013 7:27 PM

Sorry, but this is bullshit. Maybe he knows how to make electric cars; I don't know - his cars don't function well in Northeastern weather. But he doesn't seem to know anything about trains, their power requirements, their weight requirements, etc. "Self-powering if you put solar panels on it" is the key tell that he's bullshitting; a full-length train needs 16-20 MW just to achieve regular HSR speeds, and even the expensive panels used in space, where weight costs more than platinum coating, don't have the efficiency to generate the required amount of power.

rocketman_95046 May 31, 2013 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alon (Post 6148536)
Sorry, but this is bullshit. Maybe he knows how to make electric cars; I don't know - his cars don't function well in Northeastern weather. But he doesn't seem to know anything about trains, their power requirements, their weight requirements, etc. "Self-powering if you put solar panels on it" is the key tell that he's bullshitting; a full-length train needs 16-20 MW just to achieve regular HSR speeds, and even the expensive panels used in space, where weight costs more than platinum coating, don't have the efficiency to generate the required amount of power.


Don't function well in the northeast but they do well in Norway where they are selling out? You know that NYT article was BS right?

The NYT report on cold weather was proved to be fabricated
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most...iar-test-drive

As for solar panels, I don't think he was talking about on the train but rather the track/tube. 5ft wide X 300 miles long = over 175 acres, a 20 MW solar plant usually takes about 100-200 acres depending on whether you use crystalline or amorphous solar cells.

StethJeff May 31, 2013 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alon (Post 6148536)
Sorry, but this is bullshit. Maybe he knows how to make electric cars; I don't know - his cars don't function well in Northeastern weather. But he doesn't seem to know anything about trains, their power requirements, their weight requirements, etc. "Self-powering if you put solar panels on it" is the key tell that he's bullshitting; a full-length train needs 16-20 MW just to achieve regular HSR speeds, and even the expensive panels used in space, where weight costs more than platinum coating, don't have the efficiency to generate the required amount of power.

You do realize that he knows much more than just electric cars. SpaceX or SolarCity ring a bell?

Arquitect May 31, 2013 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StethJeff (Post 6148613)
You do realize that he knows much more than just electric cars. SpaceX or SolarCity ring a bell?

Not to forget Paypal, where it all started. Heck, even if he is not expert on the subject, you know that he probably has someone who is working on it for him.

I like the guy a lot. Wish we had more billionaires that had such an interest in advancing civilization.

ardecila May 31, 2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alon (Post 6148536)
Sorry, but this is bullshit. Maybe he knows how to make electric cars; I don't know - his cars don't function well in Northeastern weather. But he doesn't seem to know anything about trains, their power requirements, their weight requirements, etc. "Self-powering if you put solar panels on it" is the key tell that he's bullshitting; a full-length train needs 16-20 MW just to achieve regular HSR speeds, and even the expensive panels used in space, where weight costs more than platinum coating, don't have the efficiency to generate the required amount of power.

Just to play devil's advocate; the power and weight requirements would dramatically change in the absence of friction.

Wiz Khalifa Jun 1, 2013 3:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6148809)
Just to play devil's advocate; the power and weight requirements would dramatically change in the absence of friction.

Yep, all it takes is for some scientist to stumble on the right mix of elements for a room-temperature superconductor, and not only does this become feasible... but you could start planning to build and test trains the very next day.

Cirrus Jun 1, 2013 4:33 AM

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

llamaorama Jun 1, 2013 5:25 AM

I think the real problem is the infrastructure. Are you really going to dig a 300 mile long tunnel or god forbid, build any kind of elevated structure whatsoever, in this country?

I once had this idea of the "vac-train" thing using much smaller vehicles that run in something that is more like a pipeline that the chunnel. It would just go in a trench. Even then, if it is going really fast it must be precisely engineered and I imagine they would still have to tunnel through hills and the like.

Alon Jun 1, 2013 5:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman_95046 (Post 6148577)
The NYT report on cold weather was claimed to be fabricated by Tesla's PR flaks

Corrected.

Quote:

As for solar panels, I don't think he was talking about on the train but rather the track/tube. 5ft wide X 300 miles long = over 175 acres, a 20 MW solar plant usually takes about 100-200 acres depending on whether you use crystalline or amorphous solar cells.
Okay, so if there's only one train, and its power requirements are built for 350 km/h rather than 1000 km/h, and the system works with the reliability of fossil fuel plants, then it will work.

I see.

Just because he's rich and has people working on it doesn't mean it's going to work. Bill Gates is rich and has had people working on things and Microsoft has still managed to fall behind Apple and produce abortions like Vista and Windows 8.

People in the US have this fetish for listening to entrepreneurs. The idea being that if someone is tagged as an entrepreneur then his ideas are automatically worth listening to. It's frustrating. Madrid builds subways for about one fortieth the cost American cities build them for, and the CEO of Madrid Metro even talks about the way they did procurement to ensure low costs, and it gets ignored in the American media. But someone with zero experience in the subject bloviates about a technology that doesn't exist and doesn't even come close to existing and he's suddenly a great entrepreneur who probably employs people who understand.

Trantor Jun 1, 2013 6:43 AM

it WILL NOT be vaccum, Musk was clear about it.

most probably, it will be the OPPOSITE. Air will be used to move the cars inside the tubes.
therefore, you can move at supersonic speeds with the problems of friction against the air, since the air moves together.

fflint Jun 1, 2013 7:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alon (Post 6149218)
Corrected.

You seem wedded to the idea Tesla cars cannot run in cold weather. I predict you'll never admit you are wrong, no matter how obvious the conceit.

Nexis4Jersey Jun 1, 2013 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alon (Post 6148536)
Sorry, but this is bullshit. Maybe he knows how to make electric cars; I don't know - his cars don't function well in Northeastern weather. But he doesn't seem to know anything about trains, their power requirements, their weight requirements, etc. "Self-powering if you put solar panels on it" is the key tell that he's bullshitting; a full-length train needs 16-20 MW just to achieve regular HSR speeds, and even the expensive panels used in space, where weight costs more than platinum coating, don't have the efficiency to generate the required amount of power.

NJ utility companies have invested heavily in Solar power. So have many other Northeastern states , I don;t think they would have if there were no returns. These are not small Utilities or companies , there huge like PSE&G , Prudential , Johnson&Johnson & most New affordable housing buildings or complexes have panels either on the building or feeding it. PSE&G has wired most of the state with panels on most streets.

mfastx Jun 1, 2013 4:40 PM

Every few years someone comes out with an idea like this. But it never materializes because it simply isn't feasible at this time.

Trantor Jun 1, 2013 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfastx (Post 6149469)
Every few years someone comes out with an idea like this. But it never materializes because it simply isn't feasible at this time.

yes, but the person who comes with the idea usually is not Elon Musk, the guy who created paypal, Solar City, Tesla and SpaceX.

if there is someone who can create successful and inovative companies, its him. He would have my vote for president of Earth.

Kngkyle Jun 1, 2013 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trantor (Post 6149521)
yes, but the person who comes with the idea usually is not Elon Musk, the guy who created paypal, Solar City, Tesla and SpaceX.

if there is someone who can create successful and inovative companies, its him. He would have my vote for president of Earth.

Agreed. If there was one person on Earth that I would trust to back up what he says, it's Elon Musk. Anyone who knows his bio and what he's accomplished so far would likely agree.

mfastx Jun 1, 2013 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trantor (Post 6149521)
yes, but the person who comes with the idea usually is not Elon Musk, the guy who created paypal, Solar City, Tesla and SpaceX.

if there is someone who can create successful and inovative companies, its him. He would have my vote for president of Earth.

Well consider me as someone who would love to see ideas like this come to fruition. I'll always support projects like this.


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