I’m starting to see how the media likes to spread fear. And it makes sense; COVID is still ongoing news and humans and driven by fear for the most part. If I wasn’t in the medical field, I would be more than likely lost at this point.

80% of Michiganders are NOT fully vaccinated. Your precautions are for them. When they go into a grocery store and see unmasked people wandering around they have no way of knowing who's vaccinated and who isn't and you certainly can't trust the unvaccinated to act reasonably and wear a mask so one might assume the unmasked were vaccinated.

Personally, when I'm in a store and see some older guy (especially) unmasked, I'm more likely to bet he's both a mask and vaccine resistor than that he's fully vaccinated.

A year into it, its still kind of a surreal experience. Part of downtown Portland still look likes robocop, but most of the city has fared fairly well. It been quite the mind @#$ tho I will admit. Work has been surreal, we were given choice to work remote or stay at the office. I volunteered to stay and so did about 10 others. We work at the electric company so I guess we got an exemption? Did you ever seen Moon, that movie by David Bowies kid?? It was like that. All alone working in a spooky, abandoned sky scraper. I think the company is planning a return later in the summer so my semi solo mission continues. Stay strong forumers.

Do you think mask mandates are any different than indoor smoking bans? Other than one being temporary vs. permanent.

Except where I live indoor smoking bans don't apply to cannabis smoke. Make sense of that one ;) .

Weed smells better.

I don't care what other people do. Theres someone out there who probably has had their kid in an actual bubble suit for the last decade.

Just don't make me worry like you, that is all.

I think we are having a miscommunication, and its probably my fault.

I am not some radical asshole. I've seen videos of people going into stores without masks even though the stores mandate them.

If a grocery store mandates masks, I wear a mask. If they don't, I won't wear one. It's that simple.

I am in Chicago, I don't see anyone indoors without masks (well, maybe a few dozen in the last year). So when I'm fully vaccinated, I won't wear a mask indoors *if* the store does not mandate them. If some unvaccinated person wants to be unmasked too, fine. That's their right and they are taking a TINY risk doing it.

That's a good question.

Heres the difference, how I see it anyways:

1. Smoking is a nuisance. It smells.
2. A *smoker* smokes a cigarette, easy to tell. A masked person has about a 1.5% chance of having covid if they are showing no signs. A vaccinated person has what, a .02% chance of having covid? There's the difference, its super easy to ban smokers because their smoking is easy to identify. In essence, their "crime" is individual and deliberate. Me living my life with the TINY chance of having covid shouldn't mean I am at all times suspected of having Covid (certainly after my last vaccine shot today).

A temporary mask mandate is fine. But it seems many see no end in sight, like Pedestrian, I don't think he'll ever take his off. Which is FINE, but don't force everyone else to follow your ideas of how to live life.

Meh, I’ve had people faint in my office after getting shots. I already know it’s basically a vagal reaction that some people get to needles, so it don’t sweat it a bit.

But, of course, if this were to happen after a Covid vaccine and, in the hands of our worthless media.....obviously it would be front page news. “Man passes out after Moderna vaccine! Safety in question!” :rolleyes:

Yep. Doctors need to introduce more rationality to the discussion. Fauci is fine and all but the public needs to realize that the medical community is not totally behind his “doom is near!” approach to everything. There are disagreements (non-partisan ones) within the medical community on some of the things he is telling people. Good luck explaining that to CNN though....

Moderna started clinical trials in the first humans of their mRNA vaccine in the US in March 2020. This was at a time when the total global death count was about 6,000. It was also at the time before states began locking down. They were already talking about a two dose system and the shots would be spaced out by 28 days.

They might have some idea how long the immunity lasts from the early clinical trials.

Also, Moderna had vials of vaccine ready by February 7th, 2020, waiting for clearance for human testing.

Smoking isn't banned because of the smell. It's banned for public health reasons associated with second hand smoke.

:haha:

Ok, dude

Because that's what so many family businesses that are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy need right now, is for us to call the City on them so that they can be issued a citation. I'm sure somebody else who hates the world will do it, but there is ZERO CHANCE IN HELL I would ever do something like that

But you're okay letting them not follow basic rules that are intended to shorten the pandemic? Interesting.

And my issue too, from the beginning of this whole pandemic, is the attitude of people always just thinking about the perceived inconvenience of the customer/themselves as a customer. Nobody ever seems to think about the workers at these businesses. Prior to the availability of the vaccines, those workers at these stores/restaurants were very vulnerable to catching the virus, dealing with different customers and each other for whole work weeks. And, per CDC guidelines, it only takes 2 (or is it 3? I don't remember) workers at one place of employment to test positive for COVID to be considered an outbreak, so even from a business owner's standpoint, you do not want an outbreak at your business or else it will have to be shut down/sanitized, inspected by the county, etc., before it can reopen (I'm in HR and my company has gone to great lengths to make sure we don't get shut down or fined). Every business has to follow specific protocols regarding their employees, and even people who visit, and proper signage.

Relax, guys, I think you all know I'm very supportive of masking.

But I'm just not a "call and report a business" type. Not my personality. I always hate people who do that. Sorry

yeah i thought that too, but thats not what i read.

the likelihood of a reaction depends on your age or maybe if you already had covid, but any or no reaction does not effect how well the vaccines work.

or so the docs say. :tup:

edit: actually my spouse has some kind of vertigo thing now she never had before several days after the first pfizer shot, not sure that is vaccine related, but we think so, she never gets sick.

^ I just believe that individuals should wear masks, and not call the Government on eachother all of the time to solve their problems.

I already know you disagree with me, but at my core that's just how I view the world. We aren't going to convince eachother on this particular topic, so we might as well stop here

Perhaps. I'm just not very sympathetic to a business flouting rules that are intended to get us all through this faster. I hope those businesses that aren't following basic rules do get shut down.

Me neither... or breaking any other rules that are supposed to protect their employees, let alone customers.

Once again, I'm not against indoor mask mandates.

I'm just not the guy who picks up the phone and calls the city. That's the kind of stuff dicks do. I can't stand those people

Ok Karen

I had a similar reaction a day after I got the second Pfizer shot. Not sure I'd describe it as vertigo, just a very weird feeling of disorientation, like I was living through "bullet time" from The Matrix. Lasted about a half day, then disappeared.

They might have some idea, yes, which may be why every virologist is saying with confidence the immunity lasts longer than 6 months.

But that isn't the way these things get reported. The data generally is tabulated based on when the trials are fully subscribed and the last person included is signed up so that that person is included in the results. In other words, the 6 months started around early September which was 6 months before early March. Also, of course, the analysis of samples for antibodies takes some time and then more time to write up the data--maybe another month. Which brings us to now. That's just the way science works.

As far as vaccine development timing goes, this has been described but I'll repeat. The Modern and Pfizer vaccines are based on research taking place over the last DECADE. Pfizer's partner, Bio-N-Tech expected to use the results of its work, which was key, for CANCER immunotherapy, not anti-viral vaccines. Other researchers involved had been working on vaccines for SARS and MERS.

When the SARS-CoV-2 virus (cause of COVID) came along, everyone quickly realized the applicability of their previous work and it took literally hours to days to design a COVID vaccine based on it. Then the 3 phases of trials had to be begun which are the most expensive and time-consuming part of this kind of drug discovery. First they had to do Phase 1 trials showing the vaccines produced SOME antibodies. Then they had to do Phase 2 safety trials showing they didn't cause unacceptable side effects in a small group of test subjects. This took a couple of months. Only then were they ready to enroll the large number of participants in phase 3 trials: 44,000 in the case of Pfizer/Bio-N-Tech, 38,000 for Modern and 70,000 for Johnson & Johnson. That took several months (and some government money, especially for Moderna which was a small company). Finally, when all the people were enrolled and vaccinated with 1 or 2 shots as required, it was well into late summer/early fall. As I recall, the FDA wanted 3 months of data once the trials were fully enrolled. That's how we got to late November/early December for approval of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and how we got to now for 3 more months of tabulated data including blood samples for antibody testing (remember, the vaccines were approved based on epidemiological grounds--preventing disease--not antibody production).

Yeah, that shit is peak Karen. See a business not enforcing masks? just don't go in.

That's slightly wrong I'm afraid. The reason for the age relationship is probably that older people have weaker immune systems and so the fact that younger people seem to have more side effects to the vaccine actually makes the point of what I'm saying. The side effects are a result of immune activity. There is not a direct correlation between the severity of the reaction and successful vaccination though--clearly there are other factors. But having a mild reaction of the sort I mentioned can be taken as reassuring--not a bad thing--and, again, is part and parcel of doing what vaccines do.

Being a "doc", I'm saying it: :tup: back at ya.

However, it's not just me. I'll let the World Health Organization explain it:

https://www.who.int/news-room/featur...id-19-vaccines

That might work in urban areas. Where I am right now there are two grocery stores--same chain. Fortunately, they do have a mask mandate policy although last time I was in there I saw several unmasked people. Nowhere else to buy groceries though. Arizona has lifted its mask mandate. My county (Pima) claims its is still valid but I'm not getting into a state vs. county fight.

The point here is that going unmasked into a store with sign at the door "masks required" in a county that "mandates" them is evidence of severe stubbornness beyond being a Karen IMHO. It's proof you don't give a damn about your fellow man and want them to know it. I react with hostility to that.

Being a Karen is reporting a person or business not complying with a mandate. People refusing to wear masks where required or encouraged are not Karens but simply assholes. Either way, Im not going confront that individual over their refusal to wear a masks and most businesses have adopted that policy as well.

I was in rural Texas at a gas station where no one including staff wore a mask, I walked out and drove 20-30 miles to the next one. Didn't feel need to report them. Darwin sorted that mess out.

^ I'm actually more sympathetic to calling police on belligerent assholes who refuse to wear masks despite being told otherwise, as opposed to calling the City to report businesses who are failing to enforce city mandates.

There seems to be a "stick it to business" mentality among a certain urban, non-business-owning crowd that one gets weary of--probably because said crowd would rather penalize somebody else than have individual citizens (including potentially themselves) be held responsible. It's always easy to pass the buck to other people than oneself.

If we really want to make people wear masks indoors, then make it a misdemeanor for any individual found not wearing a mask in such settings.

Of course, I'm guessing that the crowd that wants to stick it to businesses will suddenly go silent when asked if they would support something like that.

If the business across the street does it I see no Karen element to this. That's them fighting back in a dog-eat-dog world, against a place that might have an unfair business advantage.

There's a business in a redneck town south of me that won't admit or serve customers if they are wearing masks inside. They deserve to be visited by Karen.

I actively support businesses that have been reasonable about this stuff, and will go out of my way to avoid the ones that have been super strict about so-called Covid protocols.

Those businesses can have Pedestrian’s custom but not mine.

On a personal note, ever since I recovered from Covid-19 in September, lettuce tastes like someone sprayed it with perfume.

After I recovered, everything sweet tasted uniformly like cotton candy. I eventually got a call from a nice lady at the state health department following up with recovered covid patients, who said I was the third person to tell her that bit of information that day.

Meanwhile, a vaccinated friend came down from Asheville last night to visit us and we went downtown, where I can report that with signs of the pandemic lifting, downtown Greenville was buzzing. Practically ass cheek to ass cheek with people, to the point that lots of people felt the need to go around outside masked. That's something you absolutely didn't see even in the depths of the pandemic.

Yes, people are out and about, hence Covid rates are rising. I think the panic we are hearing about this is a tad overblown. This is what you should expect.

Wear a mask and get a vaccine. Otherwise, disregard the fear-mongering. Your chance of dying is really really really really really really LOW. You’re more likely to run into an unhappy douchebag who wants to call the city on you because you aren’t complying with mandate X than to even have a fever, let alone die.

We have vaccinated over 50% of the 65 and older crowd here in Illinois, and that number is dated info so it’s probably quite a bit higher than that. Keep the vaccines going and put these fear-mongerers out of business :tup:

So what you're saying is, there's now a point in eating lettuce! If only Covid could change lettuce and make it nutritional.

That's awful. That would gross me out.

I remember the first time I tried that British candy called Fry's Turkish Delight. To my disappointment, it tasted like chocolate-covered hand lotion.

Rosewater can taste good, if done right. Otherwise, it tastes like you're eating or drinking old lady perfume. I've had homemade Turkish delight (in Turkey hehe) and it tasted delicious. Rosewater ice cream tastes good too; there's a Persian ice cream place in Los Angeles that sells tasty rosewater ice cream.

Yuck. Even as a child, I hated cotton candy.

OK now I *KNOW* I don't wanna catch COVID. And now I'm REALLY looking forward to my 2nd shot.

I've seen too many Karens to count complaining about being forced to wear a mask. I have yet to see a Karen complaining to a business about lack of mask enforcement.

It's always about "me" when it is about the Karens. Whether it is wanting to speak to the manager, or not wanting to do their part by wearing a fucking mask. Perhaps the mask fucks with their fugly hairstyle?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...b47f7e1a163998

Can you imagine being married to a Karen? I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy.

Right. And "Karen behavior" is defined by making unreasonable complaints. Expecting people to wear a mask in indoor public spaces because of COVID is not unreasonable.

Exactly. I don't report these businesses or confront the people though. Thinking about it throughout this pandemic traveling by car between LA SF and Tahoe and going to Utah, Wyoming and Colorado it was not often at all that I came across people violating mask mandates. There were a few but what is the point getting all upset about it.

When you can avoid them, there's little point. But especially in a smaller community, you can't always and then the point is to make the dangerous behavior stop the only way you can.

By the way--I move between SF and Tucson and there's a big difference. I rarely encounter anyone maskless inside in SF. In Tucson it's different. People are more stubborn, the government policy is much more vague. Having to be in line in a grocery store right next to someone who is not wearing a mask and not "distancing" is a real issue (and surprise, surprise: the times that's happened to me the maskless person was usually buying 3 bottles of cheap vodka and no food).

:haha:

Yeah, I have been pretty fortunate. In the few instances I have come across maskless people it was just one or 2 individuals in a store and the encounters are so brief I realize my risk for exposure is minimal. Going to a grocery store where a large segment isn't wearing a mask would be another story altogether. The only time I was annoyed was in UT when the hotel staff at the front counter wasn't wearing a mask back in May 2020 and the smartass woman behind the counter asked if I was there to rob her because I was wearing a mask. I said: no, I am wearing a mask because I am not an idiot.

I've only seen the Karen haircut in the Midwest, or on tourists.
Party in the front, business in the back, the opposite of a mullet.

Which is over-blown. No one is going to get cancer from eating at a restaurant that allows smoking.

SO I got my last vaccine yesterday and today I woke up sick as shit.

My GOD this thing BETTER last longer than 6 months, I don't want to go through this again (probably sicker today than at any time in the last 5 years).

Once again, you are posting out of your *ss and simply don't know what you are talking about.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...ects/index.htm

And all this is over and above the simple fact of how noxious tobacco smoke can be to a non-smoker (Note: I am a former smoker--I quit 40 years ago--and I'm convinced it bothers me more than it does even never-smokers).