:previous:

Not directed at them, but some doctors are saying that the aversion to wearing masks is linked to anxiety and anxiety disorders, and people on the autism spectrum.

That's pretty much what I'm doing

Yeah, that's what I do too.

I also find it unhygienic to be constantly touching your mask; in the beginning, I used to take it completely off when I drove by myself, but I didn't like that I was constantly touching the mask to put it on when I left the car, so some time later I started putting it under my chin when I drive by myself or with my partner. I could be wrong but I think it's best to touch your mask as little as possible. People are often constantly tugging at their mask... when I need to adjust mine, I use the ear loops. When I'm out walking, and I'm not in a crowd, I'll wear the mask under my chin, and then when a large group or old people start approaching, I'll use the ear loops to put the mask over my mouth and nose.

Sure is a good thing there's "no politics" in this thread, isn't it?

Very true.

Mask waring increases face touching. When I wear a mask indoors, I am constantly adjusting it because unfortunately, I like to talk a lot and I have a big dome sitting on top of my neck (long Spanish face). After being in a public space, but before I take the mask off, I quirt some hand sanitizer in my hands, then take it off. After the CDC's recent study about surface spread, it probably didn't matter.

Nothing has changed here in Texas only that the mask requirement was passed from the state level to the local/ business level. You can't go anywhere without them on. They suck and I wear mine as little as often but I don't see the evidence where they do nothing and no one of any credibility ever said they were there to assist the wearer but those around them.

Crackpot.

Yeah, I think it's funny I am going on a anti-mask crusade right now but I actually wear my mask outdoors (which is usually just me walking my dog) about 90% of the time. Not because I feel safe, but because it was cold and a mask is really nice in the winter. Now I wear it mostly on my chin until my dog shits, then I slide it up so I don't have to pick up poop and then touch my mask.

Anyways, I do it because I don't like conflict or attention (surprise). But after Friday when I get vaccinated, I will no longer be wearing a mask outside. It will go in my back pocket until I get back inside. I'll be vaccinated and its getting hot as shit, so yeah.

I think its crazy that no one can provide any data on how effective masks are when it comes to the spread of Covid.

Comparing heavily masked states vs less masked states shows pretty much no difference at this point. The real life data on the ground is showing it doesn't matter.

I think the problem is that you, and probably the overwhelming majority of the public and the folks here, understandably aren't schooled on how the medical community thinks and makes recommendations. There are not always YES and NO answers to questions.

It comes down to a Roman Numeral + Letter classification before we decide what to recommend to people, and the strength of that recommendation varies.

So a Class IA recommendation is the highest. A Class IC is much lower, while a class IIC recommendation is the lowest strength recommendation.

I would gather that mask wearing falls under IC (benefit way outweighs the miniscule risk of wearing a mask, and data is very limited, thus we are generally following expert opinion)

https://www.wikidoc.org/images/f/f0/...sification.JPG

Source: https://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/AC...ication_scheme

Pretty good summary of the data here, with a table listing multiple studies showing positive outcomes with mask wearing.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

Couple of points:

1. Thanks for both of you for providing actual evidence, instead of just saying CRACKPOT!
2. Homebucket, that study (and one I checked out that was cited https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...6.2020.1862409) have some elements that I think are important to point out. First, they mention that they didn't know if Covid was found in smaller aerosol particles (or something along those lines). That's an issue because masks are primarily stopping the larger particles. Second, they perform a fit test before the experiments. Normal humans don't do this. In fact, I would say a slight majority of people wearing masks either have them barely covering their nose or are not fit in any way, allowing a large amount of air to come out, which I assume they do on accident or on purpose so they can breath better. 3. A clothe mask fitted correctly, stops 51% of transmission. That's a lot higher than 0, to be sure, but its still 49% not effective even in a controlled environment. With improper wearing, I am sure that 51% goes down way further.
3. With all of that said, and I think those are important points, I'll give yall credit.

But this doesn't mean I still don't have questions about why we don't see massive disparities between highly-masked states vs. relatively unmasked states. We simply don't see the disparity. Of course there could be a million reasons why this is so, but that is kind of the point. I still don't think masks are as important as people make them out to be for the reasons I mentioned above.

In any case, I will not be wearing a mask outdoors starting Friday as all clinical and real life evidence shows that my chances of getting Covid and then spreading it are extremely small. And if this state doesn't lift their mask mandate in good time, I will simply go to Indiana to shop. Texas is a good case study, they pretty much have gone back to normal, Jmac mentioned (I believe) that sure, the mandate is gone but most places still require masks. I am sure that's the case in big cities and suburbs, but probably not the case in small towns. We saw 38,000 people, mostly unmasked, at a baseball game the other day so we definitely have something to look at in due time.

Sounds a lot like what happened here.

Don’t you have something better to do than being an ass at all times? How about you actually provide evidence like I did last night to a question you asked but instead you just decide to be a dick to be a dick like usual.

It will really hurt cities if people didn't get the vaccine because it would create a surge in mental health issues.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...ge-study-finds
I felt this was for the CE but since some people are hiding from the CE, I should bring in post-covid issues. Especially since they can impact a city (boom! on topic) especially out in the west coast.

^
I didn’t say anything about the vaccines. I think it’s important that everyone gets them. I got the second moderna shot about 2 weeks ago.

Did you have any negative side effects from the vaccine, especially after the second dose? Aches, pain, nausea, fatigue etc?

^
First one got kinda sick, my arm hurt pretty darn good. Second one sucked, I had almost a 101 fever, basically felt like the flu and I took the day off from work. But it lasted about a day and then after about 48 hours felt fine. I wish I would have gotten the Pfizer one since nobody seems to get sick from that.

I left the hospital before my 15-minute "observation" time. I asked the nurse "do I have to sit here for 15 minutes or can I head out?" She was like, "yeah, just sign here and you're good to go."

I think the hype about the vaccine's side effects is just media driven because more people will get this vaccine in a short amount of time than at any other time in history, so it makes for good clicks.

What hype about side effects? I've read nothing in the media other than they are astoundingly safe... and even if your strawman were real, why would hospitals add a 15 minute wait time just to cater to your perceived "media hype"?

It's a safety measure because these vaccines were developed and distributed in record time. Even if only 1% of people have negative side effects, does it not behoove medical professionals charged with the health and safety of their patients to be cautious as we continue to expand eligibility only a few months into giving the vaccine to the general public?

How exhausting it must be to view literally everything as a conspiracy. Heres one: I couldn't find parking this morning because of street sweeping in the neighborhood, but it's actually a conspiracy between Chicago Streets and Sanition and the liberal media to scare people from using their cars, thus keeping them at home longer so the economy will shut down and we will be forced to become government charges. Diabolical, and a shame others are too blind to see it.

The observation time is crucial. My cousin, who is a nurse, after her first dose of the vaccine, within 5 minutes, her face started to swell up. They ended up giving her Benadryl.

Then that medical professional gets fired, because the rules and standards are there for a reason. This happens pretty regularly with medical stuff...to include blood draws and shots (before covid).

The hype would be coming from the naysayers, who are not in the usual "the media" as we know it...besides one station. The side effects would be loudest from the alternate types of media people use. Essentially people that don't like masks, the lockdown, or the vaccine will use it as a means to downplay. I got both pfizer shots...no problems...the liquid felt lighter than a normal flu shot.

Are you kidding? Every day there's some story:

What to know when you get your shot.
Man dies two days after vaccine.
Can you drive right after your shot?

The list goes on, they just try to make a story about the vaccine at all possible times. I am not saying they are saying ITS NOT SAFE, but they won't stop talking about it. Just saw a local story yesterday that was about a man who had the vaccine but STILL GOT CORONA. No shit, its a vaccine, not a 100% protective vest you idiots lol These types of stories scare idiots who can't think.

I never once said or implied the 15-minute wait was because of anything from the media.

And calling every idea you don't agree with as a conspiracy is getting old.

No. Local media talk about things that scare people away all the time, even if they aren't trying.


And no, I signed a waiver, that is legit.

The 15 minute observation time is for the patients own safety. It's the standard observation time after all immunizations as recommended by the ACIP (Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices). Obviously, places will differ in their enforcement of the waiting period, and the chances of any serious adverse event is very, very low, but it is still there in place in case a patient has syncope or anaphylaxis, which can occur.

All the other side effects like fever, muscle aches, chills are perfectly normal and typically occur far beyond that 15 min observation window. Most of these effects happen 12-24 hours after the dose.

You said "the media", everything can be different if it's local media...so I'll say that my local media does not talk about things to scare people. Our statements about local media are now tied!


Then you should have included it in your first statement, because the story didn't match proper procedure and that's why I responded. That's ok though, because you still got the vaccine and saved your nurse their job. This virus can cause a disease...kinda like HIV, so it's good that you got the vax. Or neurological conditions sorta like syphilis.

Sorry, but JTown is right.

I hear from people, patients, all the time that they “heard this or this happened” as a result of the vaccine.

I’m correcting this nonsense all of the time.

Luckily it is far less now than it was even a month ago

I'm not writing a dissertation, I don't have to make sure every syllable is 100% understandable from the first read. I said I signed a paper, what did you think I signed? Just an autograph for the nurse?

I officially thought you were just BSing, because you don't like the lockdown and were unaware that there is a wait time normally for shots. Why not wait the full 15 minutes???? Signing that waiver doesn't help if you have an allergic reaction while driving from the clinic.

I had a busy day before me and I got 5 vaccines in one day in the military. I wasn't worried.

So you should know how to wait around, especially if they are nice enough to leave chairs. Since I remember people passing out when we got......6 vaccines! There's always one or two. Plus the VA just tells you to wait, there was no option to argue with the nurses when I got mine.

i had moderna. tomorrow is my two weeks after the second shot date, so i guess that means i will have official immunity.

i had no reaction to either shot. i got one in one arm and the second in the other arm, just to spread the love lol. maybe a little brief arm soreness around the shot sites afterward, but thats it.

my spouse had her first pfizer shot and no reaction at all either. she was in and out the javits center in 20min, and that includes the 15min they ask you to wait afterward. they literally jabbed her after she walked in the door lol. she goes back for number two next week. :tup:

I didn't argue, super sweet nurse btw.

So you know what a real bitch of a shot is like, the "Peanut Butter" shot, this was not that shot lol

I had a pretty minimal reaction to the Pfizer vaccine but that is not all good news. In a sense, a moderate systemic reaction--achiness, perhaps low fever--is evidence your immune system has been triggered and gone into high gear. It's the immune response that largely causes fever when you have any sort of infection. I almost wish I had had a bit more.

I worked at a Naval Training Center for 6 years. That only happens to Marines. Usually the tougher they think they are, the more likely.

It was lighter than the normal flu shot, I'm pretty sure. As far as shots go Anthrax = worst shot of all time (for me).

Oh man...one guy made it through 3-4 shot stations only to faint right before the last one, each time we had to go get shots.

Yeah, one of the first doctors to get the COVID vax passed out on TV after getting it. They weren't really watching us closely when I got the first dose last weekend, but I waited the 15 minutes just in case. Better to pass out in the waiting room than outside on the sidewalk.

Is is a shock response for people who are afraid of needles, or were they responding to whatever is in the vaccine?

Example from today:

Fox32 Chicago

"Vaccination site closes after adverse reactions to johnson and johnson vaccine:report"

"Health experts warn not to skip 2n dose of Covid-19 vaccine"

Yesterday:

"Moderna vaccine protection lasts at least 6 months" (what do idiots see? ONLY 6 months! Even though that's just the amount of time we've had to understand it)

"Georgia woman contracts breakthrough Covid-19 infection after vaccination"

"Nearly 250 fully vaccinated people in Michigan have tested positive for covid-19"


This is really just from the last 36 hours for one local station. This is causing confusion and resistance and it isn't responsible, its for clicks.

It's called "vasovagal syncope"

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20350527

It happens when the brain triggers vagal nerve activity that slows the heart and dilates blood vessels causing blood to pool and reducing circulating blood volume very briefly.

Actually, when I was being taught how to draw blood, it happened to me as one of my classmates was drawing my blood. When I came to, the instructor was teaching the class about vasovagal syncope over me lying on the floor. Ever since I have a cold/clammy response to my own blood (but only mine--other peoples' doesn't bother me at all). And shots don't bother me either.

Shots are fine. Drawing blood is horrible. Like seeing my blood flow out of my big vein is sick.

This is standard "fake news" from your friendly media outlet.

The vaccines are known to only last 6 months because they've ONLY EXISTED 6 MONTHS. As Dr. Fauci ineptly explained, it's likely they last much longer but scientists won't tell the press we know they do until that amount of time has passed and we have the data.

Indeed, even what they are measuring is probably silly. As I understand it, what has lasted 6 months SO FAR is measurable antibody production. But that's not what may be important. Over time that is almost certainly going to decline but what may never decline is that when your body encounters the coronavirus spike protein again, it will almost immediately react with a response that may include new antibody production and a cellular response. Within a few days, this measurable antibodies will be back. Clinically, the effect of this may or may not be as potent as having the antibodies already circulating but it will very likely moderate the severity of any COVID-related illness . . . possibly for the rest of your life.

^ This

The public is just making it worse with all of their misinformation and fears

Yes, I’m supposed to get blood work done, I’ve put it off for almost a month. I have a huge fear of needles. Probably stems from when I had to have to surgery with no anesthesia and had to be awake the whole time they were shoving tubes up my veins and slicing into my legs. So needless to say, I have a huge giant fear of needles. Like I start to sweat and shake. Even though I know it doesn’t hurt really, I just hate hate hate the idea of something going in my veins and sucking blood out. I feel queasy even thinking about it right now.

Just to put the title of that insane article about Michigan into perspective:

Over 5 million doses have been administrated in Michigan. I would assume that means at least 1.5 million are fully vaccinated (picked that number out of my ass).

So 250 cases for 1.5 million people. Not a story.

The nurse (not doctor, as I incorrectly said before) who fainted had already received the shot, so I don't think it was because of the needle. Apparently she has a condition that caused it to happen, and it wasn't related to the shot: https://apnews.com/article/fact-chec...ent:9817674811

But the other reason that they make you wait is to respond to allergic reactions that may occur. Not everyone is aware of all their allergies.

No need to pick number out of (your) ass: Bloomberg reports them ever day and sometimes twice a day. As of 10 AM this morning, Michigan had given 5 million doses (5,013,346 to be precise) and 19.9% of the state's population were considered "fully vaccinated". That works out to roughly 1,987,400.

The data on the vaccines has always been that they were about 95% effective in preventing "severe disease" and somewhat less at preventing ANY infection. Actually, 250/almost 2 million would be wonderful news if true. It would be .0125%. Any vaccine that's 99.9875% effective at preventing any infection would cause virologists and epidemiologists to swoon in ecstasy.

That is wonderful to read! And it also shows why it is advisable to wear masks inside public spaces for a bit more. You can still get it. Highly unlikely, but possible.

No. It. Doesn't.


We don't take precautions like that for ANY other aspect of our lives, at all.

^^ Again, you are jumping to the extreme. Am I wearing a mask when I take my dog for a walk? No. Am I wearing a mask when I am eating outside at a restaurant or bar? No. Am I wearing a mask when I am around people I know have been vaccinated? No. Am I traveling on an airplane, with a mask? Yes. Am I wearing a mask when I am inside a store or other public place? For the time being, Yes. Will I be carrying a mask with me in June? Yes but doubtful I will be wearing it, including inside. Will I take a mask with me on my two planned trips to Europe this summer/fall. Yes. Will I be wearing it at outdoor restaurants? No.

And it is fairly presumptuous of you to write "We don't take precautions like that for ANY other aspect of our lives, at all." You don't know what type of precautions people take, or have taken, in other aspects of their lives.