You'll have to quote and link that data and reference it to high quality masks like N95 or KN95s.

When your breath was billowing what were you wearing? We know gaters are pretty useless as are bandanas. Also, of course, blowing breathe is water vapor, not droplets or particles. Vapor will pass through any mask as it is supposed to, otherwise you couldn't breathe through it.

Personally, I've never worn anything but N95s and KN95s and those are what I think everybody should be wearing so show me the data on those that says they "aren't important enough". I've not heard a single virologist who would agree with that.

But I must repeat: Wearing a mask is a simple harmless thing that virtually every "expert" is saying we should do. Why are you being so stubborn about it? It is unseemly and clearly an ego trip for you. Even if you don't believe they work, it's something that society asks of you.

Waiting on that link that quality masks "aren't important enough" to bother you by asking you to wear one . . . .

Almost no one has those high-quality masks though. Even CNN admitted the masks you usually see out there aren't doing anything a few weeks ago.

I never said those masks arent useful, those aren't the requirements. Any mask will do, hence it is a political point, not a medical move.

First, coughing people don't have leprosy. Second, yes.

An unmasked jogger pretty much has a 0% chance of infecting your kid.

We are a year into this and people still are lying or misrepresenting how outside transmission works.

I would bet my next paycheck that less than 5 people have been infected from a jogger running by them. It's a non-issue but talked about by people that fear everything without evidence.

Everyone should absolutely wear one indoors, especially if they haven't been fully vaccinated yet but outside? Nah. I have contractors here at my house and they have been fully vaccinated as have I. Told them they didn't have to wear their masks.

For sure.

The virus is on the way out. The vaccines are effective against the variants. A great example of what is to come has already occurred in Israel. They have administered 114 shots per 100 people in the country. Their case count has dropped from over 10,000 people per day in around January 15th to 300 new cases today.

The US has administered 167 million shots or about 50 shots per 100 people. A mini spike in a few states is nothing to be fearful of because at this point the at risk population has received or will receive the vaccine really soon.

Canada 18 shots per 100
Mexico 7.4 shots per 100
France 19 shots per 100
Spain 19 shots per 100
Germany 17 shots per 100
Brazil 10 shots per 100
India 6.1 shots per 100
Australia 3.4 shots per 100
Japan 0.9 shots per 100
South Korea 2 shots per 100

None of these things are enjoyable as long as masks are required, just tolerable. I wear a mask in the gym as required, but I’m there to maintain/improve fitness, not to have fun. I’m not doing anything like going to a concert or a basketball game as long as a mask needs to be worn. At least at a restaurant you take it off once you reach your table.

I forgot to post that 55% of the Israeli population is fully vaccinated. They are very close to that magic herd immunity percentage.

The percentage of population that has been fully vaccinated in the US is 19%, vaccinated 32%.


UK: 8.2%
Canada: 1.9%
German: 5.2%
France: 4.6%
Spain: 6.1%
Italy: 5.8%
Brazil: 2.3%
Mexico: 0.9%
India: 0.8%
Japan: 0.2%
South Africa: 0.5%

^^
Me and my gf have been avoiding things that require the wearing of masks. For example, we went to the Cleveland art museum about a month ago but only stayed about 2 hours because you’re required to wear a stupid mask the whole time, even though nobody was hardly there. Wearing a mask just sucks all of the humanity and joy out of doing things socially. It’s not normal to not see people’s faces. But I’m afraid that democrat run cities and states will mandate the wearing of masks for political points for freaking ever because they want to show everyone how much better and holier than thou they are than the republicans.

As of Monday, metro New Orleans is now 21.5% fully vaccinated. The city of New Orleans is nearing 25% fully vaccinated. https://ldh.la.gov/covidvaccine/

I'll be fully vaccinated by then, so bring it.

The CDC released a study that there is a 1 in 10,000 chance of infection by surface transmission of Covid. That's a lot lower than what they feared it was.

It should also be known that the effectiveness of a single dose, single shot from Moderna's and Pfizer's vaccine is 80%. Now that 32% of the US population has received at least 1 shot, combined with those that have antibodies (I get it, there's some overlap there) this disease has one foot out the door.

Hyperbole much, photoLith? Masks sucks all the humanity out of doing things socially? I guess if by social you mean looking at other people's facial expressions, then perhaps. But there's nothing specifically keeping you from having a joyful time. Why does a mask keep you from enjoying yourself? I just don't understand it.

Maybe it's because I, along with tens of millions of others have been wearing masks at their job for a year now. Maybe it's because I used to have to wear a half-face mask for years when I did asbestos air monitoring and clearances. Or maybe it's just that I understand that, even though I've been fully vaccinated, not everyone around me has been, therefore its the right thing to do for me living in society to keep others safe.

I do tend to agree that masks being worn outside is a bit over the top, as long as you're not in crowded spaces (ie: farmer's market, other large outdoor events), but inside it's just stupid not to wear one.


Aaron (Glowrock)

Whats going on in Japan?

They seem to have been an outlier over the last year in so many ways.

You're keeping people safe by being vaccinated. How is wearing a mask keeping them safe? No scientific study supports your point.

They don't fully understand whether vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. That is why the CDC guidance is still for vaccinated people to wears masks in public and around unvaccinated people who do not live in their same household.

I don't think they are needed outdoors unless it's a very crowded setting.

People walking around outdoors wearing masks are doing it more for show.. "Look at me! I'm cool and hip, I'm part of the 'In' crowd, I'm so progressive and 'scientific'!" Bozos.... :haha:

They haven't come out with their concrete report yet, true.

But all indicators are showing that this doesn't happen or it happens so rarely as to be a non-issue.

^
Don’t worry, they’ll say there’s a slight chance of transmission with vaccines to keep us wearing masks for all time.

I don't see a mask being a big deal at a sporting event.

If you have a pint of beer in your hand, pull your mask down to take a swill and then pull your mask back up. Same with hot dogs or peanuts.

It's a small adjustment.

Now, if beer and hot dogs aren't allowed at sporting events....well then...there ain't NO CHANCE IN HELL that I'll be going

Wow.

Yeah, people need to seriously stop expecting everything to come down to ZERO before we let up on some of the insanity out there.

Sorry, but ZERO risk is never gonna happen.

Why wow? What is the science on outdoor transmission?

Well, in Brazil everyone is using masks outside home. It would be the opposite here: if you show up without a mask, people will mistake you for those people who believe in all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories.

Can’t wait for that day. Hopefully we don’t fuck it up:tup:

while i tend to agree with you that masks are much more for show in most outdoor situations that don't involve close-quarters crowds, i still wear one when i'm walking down the street, not because i want to be "cool and hip" or whatever, but because everyone else in my neighborhood does so, and i don't want any of my neighbors to think that i'm a self-centered asshole.

still, when no one's around, i do pull my mask down. :P

Same, I'm not sure anyone feels cool or hip wearing a mask, that would be bizarre. But it's certainly become the polite thing to do in high-mask areas--which is most big cities at this point. Like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes or covering your mouth when you yawn, it doesn't really serve a purpose other than affirming you are not anti-social or totally self-absorbed. I'm not sure why someone would want to risk making someone uncomfortable or send the signal "my delicate sensibilities are more important than your perceived safety."

My friend texted me a few hours ago; she's in Taiwan visiting family.

She told me it's soooo different there than in the US right now; people are all out and about like everything's normal, they're only required to wear masks when they go inside stores and inside the trains.

Our media hasn't really been covering Taiwan, either (apart from their political situation with China), but Taiwan is one of the few places in the world that has successfully controlled COVID.

Taiwan is doing really well (only 7 deaths from COVID in total), but they are a bit unique. First of all, it's an island nation so it's much easier to restrict travel in and out. You need to show a negative COVID test to even board a plane headed for Taiwan. They also required all inbound travelers, including Taiwanese citizens, to quarantine for 14 days, and failure to abide results in fines up to $35k USD. They make you buy a SIM card so they can track your location via your phone. They also have hotels set aside specifically for this purpose, and people aren't allowed to leave. It's $100/night with 3 meals included. There's also fines for mask noncompliance.

In other words, they've been taking it seriously from the beginning.

You actually have to present a negative COVID test to board a plane to the United States, too. But... our government didn't enact the policy until January, lol. Fucking morons.

Indeed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-...ronavirus.html

And it has done absolutely nothing for Brazil.

^
Yes, this should be quite evident after all of this time that masks do little to nothing, unless youre wearing a medical grade mask, which probably 99% of people arent. In every major city in America, everyone has been wearing masks since the beginning and yet NYC fared very poorly early on, even though everyone was wearing masks. Just like how everyone is supposedly wearing masks in Brazil, yet cases are still through the roof there.

If masks did work than cities like Miami where people arent wearing them and in Texas where they are no longer mandated than shouldnt those cities be seeing more death than places where masks are mandated, even outside?

Both cases per capita and deaths per capita are lower in Brazil than the U.S.

I sorta think we'll have reached this state by summer

Barely.


And currently, they are seeing about three times as many deaths as the US, with an obviously much smaller population.

I think it's very hard to precisely measure if/how masking helps. I believe the experts and the arguments that, when used widely, it lowers infection rates and especially lowers hospitalization and death rates. The rationale (ie lowered innoculum) is convincing enough to me.

I don't know if I want to live in a culture of shaming like Taiwan, though. I think they kicked ass with COVID and all, but there seems to be a bit of an 'Authoritarianism Porn' element with some people in this forum that baffles me. If you look at the big picture, I still prefer living in a Western Society. And deep down, so do you.

Not sure I understand your point. The U.S. isn't doing better than Brazil. It's doing worse. This is also Fall in Brazil, which is when coronavirus infections start to surge.

No you don't.

I flew to California in February. I don't even remember getting my temperature checked. Not one covid question asked that I can recall.

From outside of the United States?

Either way, the questionnaire that you have to fill out to print your boarding pass should have at least asked you about COVID symptoms and whether you recently tested positive.

The downside of doing well with COVID is that you're much lower on the vaccine priority list. I believe Taiwan and New Zealand are both near the bottom in vaccination rates. So while they're doing well in their island "bubbles", they can't really fully open up to outsiders and won't be able to for a long time. I think Canada is seeing a similar effect, although it does appear to be gradually ramping up.

Right now we are doing much better.

That's the point.

And also, we have had lulls and surges in the US, did masks play a part in that?

The surge that we just got out of, was that the result of everyone in our large cities deciding to not mask up? Of course not.

Masks are marginal in impact, their benefits are insanely exaggerated for political reasons.

I haven't worn a mask outside since the pandemic began, unless it's in a street that was converted to a pedestrian mall, or from my car to the store, I'll strap it on on the walk to the front door.

I do wear a mask every single time I am in indoors in a public place. Also, when I'm walking and come across a senior citizen (they're usually wearing a mask), I give them space by either crossing the street, or walking in the street. They're the most at risk and it's common courtesy towards them.

I don't think so, though... Serious and independent docs all say that masks are something major to avoid spreading the virus and variants.
It makes a huge difference in public transportation, for instance. This was scientifically proven by epidemiologists already. They just watch their stats, then tell the media about their conclusions to make the general public aware.

I don't think there's any politics in that matter. The fact that it's annoying to wear it has nothing to do with it.

In fact, the French government grossly lied to the French population about masks a year ago. France didn't have any reserve of masks, so they told us - masks are useless. We don't have to wear any.
As soon as the French market was invaded by trillions of masks, they suddenly said - wearing it is mandatory.

Who came up with the idea of wearing masks?

Yeah, that's the same thing that happened in the U.S. They downplayed the effectiveness of masks because they were afraid there wasn't a large enough supply for medical workers. It's ridiculous that we're more than a year into this pandemic and someone would seriously argue that masks are useless, which is contrary to what just about every public health agency in the world is saying right now.

Your doctor has been wearing a mask while operating on you for many decades to block the exhalation of germs into the open surgical wound. I belief it was Joseph Lister in the late 19th century who promoted the concept of antisepsis in surgery and the idea of wearing masks under other circumstances is a natural offshoot (assuming you think Pasteur was correct about microbes).

Still waiting for you to show data on that belief. There's plenty of data showing masks limit the travel of exhaled aerosols. What's less certain is the degree to which they inhibit inhalation of virus-containing droplets. Even if "marginal", nearly all virologists believe it helps some so the question remains why not do it?

As to epidemiologic data showing mass effectiveness, the epidemiology of this (and many viruses) is so complex that I doubt it's possible to convince people like you. Your mind is made up. Why you and 10023 are so bothered by the idea of wearing a simple mask is what's much more interesting (and, I believe, pathologic).