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-   -   CHCAGO | Thompson Center redevelopment | Jahn's MASTERPIECE will be saved!!!!!!!!!!! (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249335)

marothisu Jul 29, 2022 1:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceP (Post 9688741)
Where's 111 W Madison? There's 105 W on the corner of Clark and 123 W mid-block. Are you talking about 111 W Monroe? Either way, how do you stuff 300 apartments into just 10 floors?

Oops yeah, Monroe.

No idea. That's what the article stated.

pullmanman Jul 29, 2022 1:41 AM

>Either way, how do you stuff 300 apartments into just 10 floors?

I couldn't find proper figures / diagrams of it's floorplates, but just dividing total square footage of the building by floor count I got 59,800 square feet per floor. Divide by 30 and you get 1,993 square feet per unit.

Now obviously this doesn't address the incredible creativity in floorplans required to get 30 units on one floor to all have window space for bedrooms. I my napkin calculations ignore things like hallways, revamped water, electric, and HVAC that will all take space. But if they figure those things out and pull off a partial residential conversion here it'd be great for the Loop, as many others in this thread have said.

Briguy Jul 29, 2022 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullmanman (Post 9688774)
>Either way, how do you stuff 300 apartments into just 10 floors?

I couldn't find proper figures / diagrams of it's floorplates, but just dividing total square footage of the building by floor count I got 59,800 square feet per floor. Divide by 30 and you get 1,993 square feet per unit.

Now obviously this doesn't address the incredible creativity in floorplans required to get 30 units on one floor to all have window space for bedrooms. I my napkin calculations ignore things like hallways, revamped water, electric, and HVAC that will all take space. But if they figure those things out and pull off a partial residential conversion here it'd be great for the Loop, as many others in this thread have said.

The lower floors are, by my rough estimate, about 50k sq ft. The whole building is 37 stories and 1.2mil sq ft so I don't know where you got that 60k sq ft per floor figure (1200000/37=32,000) You could feasibly put 30 apts in a 50k floor.

ardecila Jul 29, 2022 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullmanman (Post 9688774)
>Either way, how do you stuff 300 apartments into just 10 floors?

I couldn't find proper figures / diagrams of it's floorplates, but just dividing total square footage of the building by floor count I got 59,800 square feet per floor. Divide by 30 and you get 1,993 square feet per unit.

Now obviously this doesn't address the incredible creativity in floorplans required to get 30 units on one floor to all have window space for bedrooms. I my napkin calculations ignore things like hallways, revamped water, electric, and HVAC that will all take space. But if they figure those things out and pull off a partial residential conversion here it'd be great for the Loop, as many others in this thread have said.

Here you go. This is sort of unusual because all the stairs and elevators are in the original 1911 building (Harris I), so the Harris II floorplates are pretty open. Walter Netsch did this right after Inland Steel.

This floorplan is from before they built Harris III on the LaSalle side, FYI...

https://i.ibb.co/1rvWC9J/image-5.png

Mr Downtown Jul 29, 2022 3:23 AM

The one I think would make the most incredible residential conversion is 135 South LaSalle. Seems like the windowline-to-floorplate ratio would work out pretty nicely—but it's a lot of square footage to do all at once.

pullmanman Jul 29, 2022 2:08 PM

I found a better floorplan diagram from a building welcome guide. No units or anything but gives an idea of the layout. Also my calculations were way off lol.

https://imgpile.com/images/Rpg8Dg.png

r18tdi Jul 29, 2022 2:20 PM

The Real Deal did a Q&A with the architect.
Some details worth noting:

Quote:

How do you feel about going back into the Thompson Center and designing its repositioning after Helmut, your father, originally designed it, and what are you planning?
The building is going to be enhanced to a level and expectation of a 21st century office, in terms of its operating efficiency, its daylight and its ventilation. The facade obviously has to change, based off of present day energy codes. People see it as this big glass building, but because it’s a lot of mirrored glass and opaque panels, they fail to realize it’s only about 25 percent visible glass, aside from the atrium glass wall. Most offices nowadays are closer to 60 or 70 percent visible glass, and we will bring it closer to that.

But we’re very enthusiastic to reinvestigate the opportunities for the Thompson Center now almost 40 years later. Because the technology has evolved that allows the building to showcase its potential for experimentation of what an office building can embody, not just from a metaphorical stance but actually now that we’re in this post-pandemic office hybrid work routine, to have more open space, more relationship with the outside, more opportunities for fresh air and collaboration space. It’s undeniable that it’s an iconic building and its interconnectedness with the city is inseparable.

Are air rights associated with the property? Could the footprint be potentially expanded?
You would have to talk to the developer group about that. I don’t think anything is changing based on what’s been discussed. There have been a lot of ideas thrown around about putting a tower on the site. Those were very conceptual or pre-concept sort of ideas put out there.

Handro Jul 29, 2022 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briguy (Post 9688714)
AND he's converting 10 floors of old Harris into apts? This is the exact person Chicago needs to drive the loop forward into a post covid era. Also he's gonna make some serious money on a very risky bet so good for him.

I see a "Reschke Ave" somewhere in Chicago's future...

ardecila Jul 29, 2022 3:20 PM

^ Good to hear that quote from Jahn Jr.

I think the end result of this will undoubtedly be great architecture, great adaptive reuse and an innovative workspace for Google. But it won't exist in a vacuum - the radical reconstructive surgery will surely eliminate the Postmodern aspects of the design (historic references, use of color, etc) and may also seriously reduce the extensive public/democratic spaces that were a key part of the concept. This is not a building in isolation, but a key part of connective tissue in the Loop. It connects to two CTA stations, it is a key link in the Pedway system, and above-grade it is part of an urban campus of government buildings and public space that is the "agora" of Chicago. The building managers from the state government went out of their way to prioritize retail businesses that reflected the diversity of Chicago, or at least provided affordable goods and services that were accessible to everyone.

It's too early to see post-Google renderings, but this is a bittersweet feeling for sure. I have faith that Jahn, the firm is willing to be generous in preserving or enhancing the original ideas in the building design, since it is such an important part of the firm's lore. But I seriously doubt Google wants to be associated with the many aspects of the design that are "tacky" in the eyes of the public, and will push for a fresh start as much as possible using the structural frame of the old building. Ironically, Google is one of the few private companies that could afford to subsidize the public spaces of this building - but only if they want to.

Via Chicago Jul 29, 2022 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9689055)
^ Good to hear that quote from Jahn Jr.

I think the end result of this will undoubtedly be great architecture, great adaptive reuse and an innovative workspace for Google. But it won't exist in a vacuum - the radical reconstructive surgery will surely eliminate the Postmodern aspects of the design (historic references, use of color, etc) and may also seriously reduce the extensive public/democratic spaces that were a key part of the concept. This is not a building in isolation, but a key part of connective tissue in the Loop. It connects to two CTA stations, it is a key link in the Pedway system, and above-grade it is part of an urban campus of government buildings and public space that is the "agora" of Chicago. The building managers from the state government went out of their way to prioritize retail businesses that reflected the diversity of Chicago, or at least provided affordable goods and services that were accessible to everyone.

It's too early to see post-Google renderings, but this is a bittersweet feeling for sure. I have faith that Jahn, the firm is willing to be generous in preserving or enhancing the original ideas in the building design, since it is such an important part of the firm's lore. But I seriously doubt Google wants to be associated with the many aspects of the design that are "tacky" in the eyes of the public, and will push for a fresh start as much as possible using the structural frame of the old building. Ironically, Google is one of the few private companies that could afford to subsidize the public spaces of this building - but only if they want to.

I cant keep track of Googles holdings in NYC, but didnt they have publicly accessible food halls in their building? Maybe Im mis-remembering, but hopefully they work something in. Granted, Im not expecting BK/KFC/Sbarro in the rework

ardecila Jul 29, 2022 10:45 PM

Yes, Google bought Chelsea Market and left the shopping/food levels mostly untouched. It's not a food hall in the modern sense, it's sort of a hybrid of a 2010s/2020s food hall and a 1990s festival marketplace. The hallways are lined with industrial relics and artifacts displayed in a quirky way, etc. Reminds me of walking down Navy Pier's interior corridor, but with more gourmet food. Or North Pier, if anyone remembers that blast from the past.

The Thompson Center will be stripped down to its skeleton, though, so all businesses will likely be evicted and 95% of the square footage will be reprogrammed.

bhawk66 Jul 30, 2022 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9689604)
Yes, Google bought Chelsea Market and left the shopping/food levels mostly untouched. It's not a food hall in the modern sense, it's sort of a hybrid of a 2010s/2020s food hall and a 1990s festival marketplace. The hallways are lined with industrial relics and artifacts displayed in a quirky way, etc. Reminds me of walking down Navy Pier's interior corridor, but with more gourmet food. Or North Pier, if anyone remembers that blast from the past.

The Thompson Center will be stripped down to its skeleton, though, so all businesses will likely be evicted and 95% of the square footage will be reprogrammed.


The other 5% being bathrooms I presume, lol

marothisu Jul 30, 2022 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9689604)
Yes, Google bought Chelsea Market and left the shopping/food levels mostly untouched. It's not a food hall in the modern sense, it's sort of a hybrid of a 2010s/2020s food hall and a 1990s festival marketplace. The hallways are lined with industrial relics and artifacts displayed in a quirky way, etc. Reminds me of walking down Navy Pier's interior corridor, but with more gourmet food. Or North Pier, if anyone remembers that blast from the past.

The Thompson Center will be stripped down to its skeleton, though, so all businesses will likely be evicted and 95% of the square footage will be reprogrammed.

Chelsea Market is cool, but super annoying because of how many people (a lot of tourists) it's crawling with. It has a few cool shops but most of it is pretty regular stuff. Tourists there amp up everything so it's pretty hilarious.

With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they put some sort of food hall in the basement there especially considering there is the train station accessible from there. I'm sure they'll kick out most of who's already there and bring in some trendier options. There's little doubt in my mind that this will happen.

FightOn! Jul 31, 2022 4:36 PM

Fantastic news! We just moved from NYC to the Loop late last year and can see the potential this area can become. After March, the area has been booming with people and every weekend has become busier and busier.

This news just made us feel better about buying a condo down here as we see it undervalued compared to major cities we've lived in.

Maybe even apply to Google in the future... :)

marothisu Jul 31, 2022 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightOn! (Post 9690517)
Fantastic news! We just moved from NYC to the Loop late last year and can see the potential this area can become. After March, the area has been booming with people and every weekend has become busier and busier.

This news just made us feel better about buying a condo down here as we see it undervalued compared to major cities we've lived in.

Maybe even apply to Google in the future... :)

Hey fellow NYC transplant (but I used to live in Chicago for many years previous).

Activity downtown definitely picked up after March and especially after April. It's weird when people call it a ghost town now - I'm pretty sure they don't come downtown and are just guessing and applying what they knew what it was like 6+ months ago instead.

Chicago is always undervalued. It makes no sense except for 50-75% false crime stereotypes and the weather stereotypes. The Loop before the pandemic definitely had less retail vacancy and even more people. But there's 600K+ jobs technically in the area and there's still a lot of people coming into their offices now even if it's not a super high percentage.

What's always bothered me about the area though is the residential component. They've definitely added more in the eastern portion vs. when I originally moved to Chicago but they could do so much more. It does have the potential to be like some of the more populated parts of Midtown IMO. Not that Midtown is my favorite part of NYC (far from it) but there's still some sections with some nice after office hours activity and some good local restaurants.

Pioneer Aug 1, 2022 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 9690708)
Hey fellow NYC transplant (but I used to live in Chicago for many years previous).

Activity downtown definitely picked up after March and especially after April. It's weird when people call it a ghost town now - I'm pretty sure they don't come downtown and are just guessing and applying what they knew what it was like 6+ months ago instead.

Chicago is always undervalued. It makes no sense except for 50-75% false crime stereotypes and the weather stereotypes. The Loop before the pandemic definitely had less retail vacancy and even more people. But there's 600K+ jobs technically in the area and there's still a lot of people coming into their offices now even if it's not a super high percentage.

What's always bothered me about the area though is the residential component. They've definitely added more in the eastern portion vs. when I originally moved to Chicago but they could do so much more. It does have the potential to be like some of the more populated parts of Midtown IMO. Not that Midtown is my favorite part of NYC (far from it) but there's still some sections with some nice after office hours activity and some good local restaurants.

Off topic, but I started commuting back to work (in Illinois Center) 2 days a week, starting in May. It's amazing how much more vibrant and bustling the Loop and surrounding areas have become over the last 2-3 months. Illinois Center, of all places, had a buzz last week. I'm sure that was partly due to Lolla but I suspect not too much (how many attendees ventured north to the exciting and vibrant Illinois Center?).

Chisouthside Aug 1, 2022 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioneer (Post 9691127)
Off topic, but I started commuting back to work (in Illinois Center) 2 days a week, starting in May. It's amazing how much more vibrant and bustling the Loop and surrounding areas have become over the last 2-3 months. Illinois Center, of all places, had a buzz last week. I'm sure that was partly due to Lolla but I suspect not too much (how many attendees ventured north to the exciting and vibrant Illinois Center?).

Alot of the tourists stay in the cluster of hotels north of randolph east of Michigan so it seems like it's always popping around here. I came back to the office before most people and even a year ago there were clusters of tourists all around lakeshore east.

r18tdi Aug 1, 2022 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleyfox (Post 9687970)

Yup, confirmed:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/...ng-sold-google

marothisu Aug 1, 2022 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisouthside (Post 9691145)
Alot of the tourists stay in the cluster of hotels north of randolph east of Michigan so it seems like it's always popping around here. I came back to the office before most people and even a year ago there were clusters of tourists all around lakeshore east.

I work in the central loop, and have since last October. The amount of people who are working there and clearly not tourists is way up since March or early April. My trains have been packed or what I consider "pretty damn full" 75% of the trips to and from work since then too. Since I ride the Brown Line as well, very few people are tourists and most people are very obviously office workers. When I walk to the train after work east towards Millennium Park, the tourists are more obvious but in the central loop there's a lot of office workers now. You'd see that if you hung out there a lot. And as someone who has been coming into the office (minus 2 months) since October for 3 days a week - it's like someone flipped a switch every week since early March.

Tom In Chicago Aug 2, 2022 2:20 PM

^Yup. . . I live in the LSE area and have been working at our datacenter in the no-man's land south and west of the Loop, taking my electric scooter to and from work. . . I've noticed a huge uptick in both tourist (expected) and worker traffic in the Loop proper over the last few months. . .

. . .


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