Central station, Derby, the countless little things Lafferty has said he's going to build, the stuff by the capitol, central and Pierson apartments, the list goes​ on.

It's generally pretty transparent which projects are real and which ones are land bank projects.

The lead developers death didn't help Central Station's chances of getting built.

The only reason to be bearish on Downtown Phoenix stems from the bonehead city leaders that cater to Nimby's.

and by the same token we have Block 23, Barrister, Hampton Inn and apartment tower, ASU law School, Alta, Portland on the park, Enhannce, Muse, Arthaus, Macayos, broadstone both at Mcdowell and 3rd street, Roosevelt Point, Illuminate, Proxy, that other one at third street, Desoto, Central and Roosevelt, Banner tower, UofA medical center, capitol place condos etc. etc. etc.

there is more good news than bad don't be a party pooper dude:cheers:

Back in the early 2000's, yes...75% of the proposal never got off the ground. The economy was struggling, people were not moving (especially to Downtown) and the LTR was not even in operation yet. In the last 3 years, it's more like 10% and that is higher than it should be because of the first failed Fillmore RFP, Central Station (and I think we all can agree that it shouldn't have been built as proposed) and Barrister going through multiple developers.

As for 3rd and Pierce, the GPLET has city counsel support and will most likely be approved. An FAA Obstruction evaluation has been submitted and meetings with the locals and the RAA have occurred regarding 3rd and Pierce and it seems to have their support (compared to Circles and Derby).

I'm not trying to start an argument with you guys but the reason for the development not happening is irrelevant to me. The fact is most stuff doesn't get built and as the project gets more expensive and more grand the likelihood diminishes. The sheer number of 'developers' trying to sell build-ready projects is astounding and makes up a pretty good majority of the "failed" projects, that practice is not unique to the 90's, 2000's, or today. Land banking has been going on for as long as this country has existed.

I get that some of you really love skyscrapers and yearn for more development, as I do or I would not be posting here, but you have to look at things with a realistic perspective. It's either do that or constantly set yourself up for disappointment.

He's right everyone. Hope is dangerous. Just die so you won't be disappointed.

I'm not setting myself up for disappointment in a city that I was very disappointed with in it's downtown core when I first moved here 4 years ago. The first place I worked for was Xerox in Midtown and believe me....I could walk across Central during lunch without the slightest worry about traffic. That's not the case now. Good luck getting across Central without a crosswalk.

This city has grown by leaps and bounds in a place that technically...like Vegas...should not even be nowhere near this size. But yet, people still move here in troves. Development will always happen here. Its the nature and draw of this place. The core has to play catch up, but it will. The demographic is changing. It's no longer just for retired people which constitute a great deal of the NIMBY'ism mentality here. That era is coming to an end. As the demographic gets younger, the city will mature and that includes Downtown/Midtown.

We probably will never see a Supertall built here. But I see no reason for a few developments like 3rd and Pierce to pop up and get built...especially when the market is hot which it is right now. No one can dispute that.

If 3rd and Pierce doesn't get built, I won't be disappointed. It's already been beyond anything I ever expected to happen. There's still plenty of other projects in the pipeline that will get built and I'm happy to see the progress :tup:

I kind of like the spaghetti approach. Throw enough at the wall and hope something sticks.

I think every developer thinks they're going to be the lucky noodle.

That's not surface parking, that's the street.

We all want to be the lucky noodle every now and then, reminds me of Vegas with the boys in 1998 hitting every strip club in town and... nevermind.

I hope it all gets built, but I'm cautiously optimistic that just a bit of it will come to fruition. I agree with you the city has grown tremendously, I first noticed it about 3 years ago, getting frustrated every time I drove somewhere. It felt like all of a sudden everything was just busier, it's a very different place. I still remember living in Maryvale in the nineties when Olive Garden and a movie Westridge Mall was a big night out. Now we have more one-off restaurants than we can shake a stick at.

"Lucky Noodle" sounds like a good name for a restaurant, maybe one in ground floor retail space in the proposed 3rd St. & Pierce development.

Agreed. Speaking of parking, the rendering of the project that was never built does not appear to have the first few floors dedicated to a parking podium. Unfortunately, the new proposal looks like it does. Since the new proposal is adhering to an old school 1:1 ratio of dwelling units to parking spaces, all that vehicle storage must go somewhere. Nevertheless, if the developer truly wants / needs to build all that parking, it would make the project even more attractive it were built underground or in a central garage situated among all the buildings.

I honestly dont mind large parking podiums so long as they are attractively designed and the first 15-20 feet be engaging at the street level with retail etc.

Thank you Goldwater Foundation
 

For your narrow myopic vision. The greater good could be achieved by the City of Phoenix giving tax breaks to some potential high rise developers but it appears the Goldwater Foundation wants to make it "fair" for everybody which in turn sticks us with a low rise downtown forever. Can't you clowns go to some other major city and make life miserable for them instead of Phoenix?

Goldwater is the plaintiff or suing party in this case - they will not be "making" the ruling, the Arizona Supreme Court is.

My point exactly
 

No plaintiff no ruling. Go away Goldwater Institute

I don't think you understand how court works.

Yea...I know that. It was mistyped. Thanks for pointing out something petty :breakcomp:

Nor does he fully grasp what corporate welfare is...I think it's time these projects get off the ground without a break from the taxpayer. During a recession or when they are trying to build some synergy off of a depressed area, I get it. Now land prices should pencil most of these projects out.

Empty lot across from Renaissance hotel on Adams (behind Hanny's) is being torn up.

I assume for streetscape improvements.