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-   -   Phoenix Development News (3) (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173764)

gymratmanaz Nov 23, 2017 2:58 PM

Do we need a golf thread? LOL

exit2lef Nov 27, 2017 4:13 PM

On my way to work this morning, I saw city workers cleaning up the trash in the campground established in Shadow Play at Third Street and Roosevelt. I had used the PHX Cares website to report the campground, and I'm sure others did the same. It will be interesting to see if it's a perpetual struggle to keep this area clear of campgrounds. Its design lends itself to camping, and it hasn't attracted a lot of other activity. It might be a more viable gathering spot if there were coffee kiosk or something similar within.

gymratmanaz Nov 27, 2017 5:06 PM

They should add those rails to the seats to prohibit sleeping, similar to the ones at City Space Park.

exit2lef Nov 27, 2017 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz (Post 7998768)
They should add those rails to the seats to prohibit sleeping, similar to the ones at City Space Park.

I'm inclined to agree. Although critics call it an example of "hostile architecture," segmented seating is an unfortunate necessity in many urban environments.

CrestedSaguaro Nov 27, 2017 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef (Post 7998692)
On my way to work this morning, I saw city workers cleaning up the trash in the campground established in Shadow Play at Third Street and Roosevelt. I had used the PHX Cares website to report the campground, and I'm sure others did the same. It will be interesting to see if it's a perpetual struggle to keep this area clear of campgrounds. Its design lends itself to camping, and it hasn't attracted a lot of other activity. It might be a more viable gathering spot if there were coffee kiosk or something similar within.

I've always thought Shadow Play was a poor choice of use for that spot. It's large enough for better use. The kiosk idea would have been a great idea and would have created a good gathering space.

KEVINphx Nov 27, 2017 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef (Post 7998778)
I'm inclined to agree. Although critics call it an example of "hostile architecture," segmented seating is an unfortunate necessity in many urban environments.

maybe a real solution to the plague of homelessness and chronic poverty - we are the richest nation on the face of the planet and yet we must design public seating so those with no roof over their heads can not sleep on it!

disgusting.

Obadno Nov 27, 2017 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEVINphx (Post 7998973)
maybe a real solution to the plague of homelessness and chronic poverty - we are the richest nation on the face of the planet and yet we must design public seating so those with no roof over their heads can not sleep on it!

disgusting.

The real problem with homelessness is that they have all manner of mental issues.

There are very few people that are homeless just due to economic poverty and if they are its usually a very temporary situation. truly being homeless requires you to have nowhere to go , no relationships or family to help, no seeking accommodations or employment.

That doesn't happen because you are poor it happens because you are incapable of functioning in our society, weather that's because of an illness or you simply lack the faculties or you are heavily addicted to drugs that all depends.

When there were such a thing as mental institutions/hospitals most of which disappeared by the early 1980's most of the homeless today would be interred there as wards of the state. But there were many horror stories of abuse and mistreatment so that way of dealing with these mentally handicapped individuals was ended.

But nothing was put in place to deal with these people and now they just live on the streets. I don't think what we are doing now is in any way a better solution or somehow more humane than when they would send them off to a mental institution but what are people supposed to do?

Just letting homeless people wallow around in parks and on benches isn't going to help either.

fawd Nov 27, 2017 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 7999167)
The real problem with homelessness is that they have all manner of mental issues.

There are very few people that are homeless just due to economic poverty and if they are its usually a very temporary situation. truly being homeless requires you to have nowhere to go , no relationships or family to help, no seeking accommodations or employment.

That doesn't happen because you are poor it happens because you are incapable of functioning in our society, weather that's because of an illness or you simply lack the faculties or you are heavily addicted to drugs that all depends.

When there were such a thing as mental institutions/hospitals most of which disappeared by the early 1980's most of the homeless today would be interred there as wards of the state. But there were many horror stories of abuse and mistreatment so that way of dealing with these mentally handicapped individuals was ended.

But nothing was put in place to deal with these people and now they just live on the streets. I don't think what we are doing now is in any way a better solution or somehow more humane than when they would send them off to a mental institution but what are people supposed to do?

Just letting homeless people wallow around in parks and on benches isn't going to help either.


https://i.imgur.com/0mKXcg1.gif

Freeway Nov 28, 2017 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz (Post 7998768)
They should add those rails to the seats to prohibit sleeping, similar to the ones at City Space Park.

Nice. Then the homeless can just sprawl out on the ground. Just because you design seating that makes it uncomfortable or impossible for people to sleep won't ameliorate the issue of rampant homeless downtown. These people have nowhere to go. Making features that make it uncomfortable for them to rest is not going to just make the homeless go away.

Obadno Nov 28, 2017 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeway (Post 7999411)
Nice. Then the homeless can just sprawl out on the ground. Just because you design seating that makes it uncomfortable or impossible for people to sleep won't ameliorate the issue of rampant homeless downtown. These people have nowhere to go. Making features that make it uncomfortable for them to rest is not going to just make the homeless go away.

Would you be okay with a homeless person sleeping on your doorstep or in the corner of your driveway, or even in the bushes at the corner of your property?

biggus diggus Nov 28, 2017 4:40 PM

while I see where you're trying to go with that, a person sleeping on your driveway or doorstep is hardly the same as someone sleeping in a publicly owned park...

KEVINphx Nov 28, 2017 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 7999167)
The real problem with homelessness is that they have all manner of mental issues.

There are very few people that are homeless just due to economic poverty and if they are its usually a very temporary situation. truly being homeless requires you to have nowhere to go , no relationships or family to help, no seeking accommodations or employment.

That doesn't happen because you are poor it happens because you are incapable of functioning in our society, weather that's because of an illness or you simply lack the faculties or you are heavily addicted to drugs that all depends.

When there were such a thing as mental institutions/hospitals most of which disappeared by the early 1980's most of the homeless today would be interred there as wards of the state. But there were many horror stories of abuse and mistreatment so that way of dealing with these mentally handicapped individuals was ended.

But nothing was put in place to deal with these people and now they just live on the streets. I don't think what we are doing now is in any way a better solution or somehow more humane than when they would send them off to a mental institution but what are people supposed to do?

Just letting homeless people wallow around in parks and on benches isn't going to help either.

Certainly - and there are proposals and ideas for helping these people - I am just stating that efforts targeting aspect of homelessness are certainly more akin to taking a Tylenol for your fever when your real problem is infection; the Tylenol does nothing but ameliorate the symptoms

When you are dealing with people, humans - these sorts of measures really make it seem like we are just looking for superficial ways to keep the problem out of sight.

I am aware that rates of mental illness are much higher among this population but they are NOT a majority of the population- "According to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, that represents about 20 percent of the national homeless population." AND "; according to the Phoenix Rescue Mission "in 2015, officials counted 25,832 homeless people in Maricopa County throughout the year. On one particular night, there were 4,342 homeless individuals in shelters and 1,289 on the streets."

Clearly we're more talking about "street homelessness" as opposed to all of those without stable, permanent housing BUT it is still relevant that we are dealing with these "issues" in the wealthiest nation on earth - we have all the resources at hand to provide a roof for these people to get them off the street - we just lack the majority will-power but that may be changing - some cities are finally taking the "Housing First" approach with great success for example, from Utah where they've had a 90% reduction in chronic homelessness;

"Evans has cleared out a lot of the trees there. He says he likes to think of this place as his own park. He is 54 years old, but looks a lot older.
He has a tent with a fence around it made of wood, piles of tarp and grocery carts full of stuff he collects. He wears a good new winter coat, which was donated. He says he's been living outside for five years.He has a bad back injury and has struggled with drugs and alcohol. When he talks, he's a little hard to understand. He said he's had a stroke and is missing some teeth.

But any day now, he's about to get his own apartment, mostly paid for by the federal government. He says he doesn't want to spend another winter in the woods.

Under a previous anti-homelessness model, Kim Evans would've had to prove he was sober and drug-free before he could get housing and take that warm bath. Or he might have just stayed homeless.

Under Utah's Housing First approach, he'll get housed with few questions asked." https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/45910...cent-heres-how

azliam Nov 28, 2017 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz (Post 7995503)
Do we need a golf thread? LOL

or how about a homelessness thread?

azsunsurfer Nov 28, 2017 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azliam (Post 8000194)
or how about a homelessness thread?

what if....we got the homeless to start golfing?? All our woes are solved!

ASU Diablo Nov 28, 2017 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer (Post 8000201)
what if....we got the homeless to start golfing?? All our woes are solved!

:haha::haha:

exit2lef Nov 28, 2017 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEVINphx (Post 8000157)

Clearly we're more talking about "street homelessness" as opposed to all of those without stable, permanent housing BUT it is still relevant that we are dealing with these "issues" in the wealthiest nation on earth - we have all the resources at hand to provide a roof for these people to get them off the street - we just lack the majority will-power but that may be changing - some cities are finally taking the "Housing First" approach with great success for example, from Utah where they've had a 90% reduction in chronic homelessness

Street homelessness is mainly practiced by people who are unwilling or unable to comply with rules that exist in most shelters and subsidized housing. A "Housing First" approach relaxes those rules in the hope that addiction and behavioral problems can be addressed after a person is properly housed. I see some potential wisdom in that approach and will be interested to see how it plays out where attempted.

Nevertheless, as you note, we're a long way from having the political will to make "Housing First" a national policy. Until that happens, it's neither unreasonable nor disgusting to design spaces in ways that discourage the establishment of campgrounds. Just this morning, on the heels of yesterday's cleanup, I saw two of three people in Shadow Play with shopping carts full of stuff. That takes up a lot of space and leaves behind a lot of trash, all of which prevents the art installation from being enjoyed by other users.

KEVINphx Nov 28, 2017 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef (Post 8000204)
Street homelessness is mainly practiced by people who are unwilling or unable to comply with rules that exist in most shelters and subsidized housing. A "Housing First" approach relaxes those rules in the hope that addiction and behavioral problems can be addressed after a person is properly housed. I see some potential wisdom in that approach and will be interested to see how it plays out where attempted.

Nevertheless, as you note, we're a long way from having the political will to make "Housing First" a national policy. Until that happens, it's neither unreasonable nor disgusting to design spaces in ways that discourage the establishment of campgrounds. Just this morning, on the heels of yesterday's cleanup, I saw two of three people in Shadow Play with shopping carts full of stuff. That takes up a lot of space and leaves behind a lot of trash, all of which prevents the art installation from being enjoyed by other users.

I am sorry, but "practiced" what the hell are you trying to get at with this language?

Not to nit-pick but clearly you are an intelligent person and choose your words with explicit purpose. Do you have a disdain for these people? I personally know a man who was living on the street for 15 years and do not argue that it wasn't because of addiction, mental issues and even his "personality" but I just don't get how people can be so blase about the issue - you don't just make life as miserable as possible for them in the meantime just because they stink and are scary to children and would be better out of sight . . . they should be scary to children because it could be their very fate one day - as it demonstrates exactly WHAT is possible in this nation.

And to any fool suggesting I house someone on my property - you do not know me or my family. We provided said man above with a permanent roof over his head on our own property here in Maricopa County and his fortunes 14 months later are much different than when he was homeless in Venice Beach. That isn't to say I would be OK with someone SQUATTING on my property regardless of their circumstance but public places are a different issue. Knowing and talking with him over the last year has really opened my eyes and changed my perspective on things.

Perhaps look at "housing first" as an alternative to "institutions" but the occupants are treated with dignity, pay rent if possible, and have freedom to attempt to re-integrate with society as best they can. You can't do any of the basic functions of being an adult in our society if you don't even have a place to sleep or get ready.

azliam Nov 28, 2017 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer (Post 8000201)
what if....we got the homeless to start golfing?? All our woes are solved!

:cheers:

Obadno Nov 28, 2017 6:49 PM

Lets get back on track then:

Some cool Aerials of downtown and the Phoenix metro/AZ

Block 23: https://kuula.co/post/7lK4v

http://aboveviewaerials.com/portfolio/

biggus diggus Nov 28, 2017 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer (Post 8000201)
what if....we got the homeless to start golfing?? All our woes are solved!

At least people would be on the golf courses.... :shrug:


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