Metra 35th Station

For some reason, this shot seems very Dutch to me... looks like it could be in Rotterdam or something (if they could build sunken highways in Rotterdam). I can see why Koolhaas saw potential in the area.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6358/superdutch.jpg

Courtesy of Steven Vance

http://www.suntimes.com/news/4369884...-to-ohare.html


Daley pushes plan for high-speed train to O’Hare

BY FRAN SPIELMAN

City Hall Reporter fspielman@suntimes.com


Last Modified: Mar 18, 2011 05:01AM


Chicago is taking the first concrete step toward realizing Mayor Daley’s dream of building a fast train from downtown to O’Hare Airport — privately financed and operated and priced at a premium.

...

The solicitation will be issued after Daley and a delegation of civic and business leaders return March 30 from a 12-day trip to China to market Chicago as a destination for Chinese tourists and business investment.

But Daley plans to use the trip to five Chinese cities, including Hong Kong and Beijing, to pitch a project he hopes will someday be his transportation legacy to Chicago.

“The high-speed train from O’Hare to downtown Chicago would be the first of its kind in America. That’s to rebuild our commercial and residential market downtown,” the mayor said.

“You arrive at the airport and come downtown in 20 minutes. Same thing with tourists. Instead of taking two hours, three hours to get out to the airport sometimes, you’re out in 20 minutes.”

Daley said the 17-member committee chaired by industrialist Lester Crown has “interviewed many sovereign funds” and is “moving very rapidly” to line up financing “alternatives.”

....

“We should not be worried about foreign investments. They are investing in our country. They are investing in business. They are investing in our work force. They are not buying our country. America has invested in the rest of the world. They were welcome investments. And we have to welcome investments from China.”

Citing interest already expressed by investors from China, Japan and the Middle East, Daley gave Crown a mandate that “no city money’’ be used to build or operate the “separate private system.’’

...

Is the mayor now convinced that the project will actually be built?

...

In London, air travelers pay $25 for the Heathrow Express.

Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino refused to speculate on the possible cost of a Chicago fare.

She simply called it a “better service” targeting business travelers.

Does it really take two-three hours to get out to the airport from downtown? It’s never taken me that long from Hyde Park, though I’ve never taken transit or a flight during rush hour. Even so, way to promote the city! :rolleyes:

Also, isn’t it a little late for Daley to be pushing for a big “transportation legacy” project? Although I definitely agree that he could have done more, having accomplished the Green, Cermak/Pink, Dan Ryan, and Brown Line rebuilds isn’t too bad of a legacy either, even if it doesn’t land him a big “Daley line” on the map (and he would have been able to add some preliminary BRT, too, had he not shot himself in the foot over parking and the transit union negotiations, plus the useful-to-many X-buses, which were lost in the union pay shuffle).

Anyway, I’m of two minds about the airport express project. On the one hand, if we have a real HSR network, a link to O’Hare would probably be worthwhile: SNCF had an O’Hare link in its big midwest study (pdf), and the Midwest HSR analysis found that an O’Hare link would be a major boost to a Chicago-St. Louis 220-mph project. However, both of those would be part of a larger system—I don’t know if there’s enough demand for a separate service. It’s also worth noting that the only two airport HSR links I can think of off the top of my head are the Satolas-Saint/Lyon Saint-Exupéry station, which has disappointing ridership but notable architecture, and the Narita Shinkansen, which is the only unfinished (and now likely never to be finished) Shinkansen route. However, parts of its ROW are now used by the Keisei Sky Access Line, which is a 100-mph service—I think this is the sort of thing we’re most likely to see here, and they’re only using HSR as shorthand for “faster than your average Amtrak.”

There’s also the issue of constructing the line—if they’re not able temporally separate freight, they’ll either have to use heavy FRA equipment or build their own tracks—the first option would likely mean kissing profitability goodbye, the second would make it near-impossible to finance without public aid (they should be able to operate alongside Metra, though—Caltrain’s FRA waiver stated that the new, lighter EMUs could operate alongside diesel-powered, FRA-compliant Caltrain sets, just not freight).

So, count me as a skeptic about this line for now. Hope it’s able to be done competently and in a manner that could allow it to link up with a larger HSR network later, but if that’s not possible it shouldn’t be done at all.

I'm a little skeptical, too, although I'd love to see it.

I think something like this would be a nice long-term place. The downtown portion would be all run in deep subways.

RED = tunnels downtown, tunnels or surface routes outside of downtown

BLUE = solid blue would be two stations, one in the West Loop to serve the central business district, one near Watertower to serve the abundance of hotels in that area, plus the businesses and high-end residences there. Dotted blue spots are potential stations for a circulator that would use the same tracks. Potentially, a third main stop could be added at Millennium Park, although I don't think it would be strictly necessary given the circulator.

GREEN = HSR station and tracks

Routing would be for every other train to run either clockwise or counter-clockwise around the underground loop. Travel time to the first stop would be about 15 minutes, to the second stop, about 20 minutes, so anyone could take either one without having to wait or take much longer, or they could wait for one that goes direct during high-frequency times. Dedicated loop shuttles would use the tracks running every 5 minutes or so as circulators between downtown stops. I show the cross-loop leg going under Adams, but it could reasonably cross under any of the streets from Monroe to Congress. if it were a deep tunnel it wouldn't need to use the ROW under Monroe if other routings were preferred. The western side of the loop could have transfer stations with a Clinton Street subway running above it, and when that's built, the western portal from the Dearborn Subway could be built out to accomodate a routing the Green Line into the subway to make use of that transfer point under Block 37 instead of being on the elevated Loop.

All together, if worked as part of an overall downtown business-oriented transportation plan, in 20 years you could end up with radically better downtown transit with high-speed links to O'Hare, interfaces with the "L" system, and interfaces with an HSR system. And the potential for a eastern side of the new Loop serving as part of a lake-front rail line to support new lakefront development on the south side. HSR couldn't use the looping portion of the tracks, but I think airport high-speed trains could be built to work with the tighter corners needed, as long as they weren't as tight as current "L" corners.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/...e6031838_o.gif

I'm getting confused with a mixture of ideas coming in, that I'm not sure how they would coalesce into one plan.

The High speed rail thread has a discussion where a 220mph train would have dedicated tracks going to St Louis. This originates in Chicago somewhere, my guess would be Union Station. Assuming dedicated tracks for the whole project, these tracks would be elevated in the city and suburbs.

Ardecila mentions in that thread a possibility of adding a high speed rail station at McCormick. Why is this needed? Are the transit options lacking in any way? With HSR, I would think you would need fewer stations. Would an outer loop connecting the Union/Olgalvie stations with Navy Pier and McCormick place be better?

The western loop mega station would combine Olgalvie and Union stations with a Blue line subway stop (thus rerouting the Blue line). This massive station would also host a high speed transfer station. If everything is funneling into Union, wouldn't the station require a massive amount of reconfiguration? Is the space available to do so? Assuming HSR goes into this station, the tracks would slope from elevated to ground/below ground level into the station, then back to elevated again.

Emathius' idea for O'Hare high speed would use the current Blue line track along 90/94, whereas the O'hare thread would use the MD-W and North Central tracks. Would this high speed train use its own dedicated tracks?
The high speed idea for O'hare seems tied into other high speed train projects, where the train would then continue to Milwaukee, or General Mitchell Airport. Should the Milwaukee line continue from Union, and leave the O'Hare part separate? This option wouldn't need a massive transfer-through station at O'Hare, and O'Hare would just be an endpoint.

There's also the CTA Gray line (which might impact a HSR McCormick station), some ideas for a CTA outer loop subway, as well as the circular track.

I'm just trying to see how everything jives together. :gaah:

First of all, there are almost zero official, solid plans for any of those things. All of my suggestions fall into the "if I were King, this is what I'd have done" category. I can't speak for other people's ideas.

My post immediately before yours was pretty self-contained and, I should point out, while it follows the same general route from the West Loop to O'Hare, it is NOT my suggestion to use the Blue Line tracks (neither map shows a route that is directly aligned with the Blue Line routing so I'm not sure how you could have confused that). I never said that anywhere. I merely combined a secondary suggestion into the description of the maps, describing how the airport express could interface with (which is different from "use the same tracks as") other parts of Chicago transportation both as it currently stands and how it could be reconfigured.

I don't mean any disrespect, but is English your first language?

The McCormick station is just a possibility, because the Metra Electric/IC line runs along the lakefront, and it can be converted to HSR very easily - it has lots of room, wide curves, and it's already electrified. If Illinois builds a 220mph line, it will probably use the IC tracks to reach Union Station at high speed (no slowing down around commuter trains, freight, or tight curves). The IC happens to run beneath McCormick Place, where many business travelers go during conventions, so some planner decided to pitch the idea for a McCormick Place station.

Yeah, cramming rapid transit, HSR, Amtrak, buses, and 8 Metra lines into the West Loop area will be very challenging. For ease of construction, the West Loop Transportation Center will probably NOT connect into the Blue Line... building the underground junctions with existing tracks is very very expensive. The current plan is to re-route the Red Line into the West Loop, which is a longer project but possibly easier to build. I've seen bits and pieces of the WLTC plans... I'm pretty confident that it can be built, but I don't think two tracks is enough for 10 million Chicagoans.

Maybe we should take a page out of the 1930s playbook and build a massive new China-style station in Riverside Park at 18th, combined with a massively dense new development.

What I am wondering is if him and Quinn are passing ships in the night on this issue. It seems that rather predictably there seems to be a different vision and agenda by the two on how and who should get airport express service implemented.

Would Daleys plan, like Quinn, also involve Amtrak? Is Daley still hoping to get foreign funding and partnership for his own version of a city run airport express?
If it was part of its own separate service I think it would be wise to try to get such a system to code share with Amtrak and perhaps the Airlines to include a reduced price express ride incorporated into a passengers ticket. All the southern and western HSR/Amtrak train passengers will be stopping through Union anyway so directing them to an express train that leaves say every 20 minutes wouldn't be much of a minus.

My gut is that an independent service could be successful even without such tie-ins but obviously it would be a coup to partner up.
The Frankfurt Airport service has ICE service to Cologne leaving right from the airport. The Frankfurt Airport HSR station is incredible as well. I would be stoked for O'Hare to get 1/3 of an opulent inter modal station.
I was thinking that running the DMU cars that were going to be bought for the STAR line could perhaps suffice. I thought I read somewhere that it was the Bombardier Talent train sets that were being looked at as a possible choice for STAR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talent_(train)

As more of CREATE is completed Metra will be able to realign some service to LaSalle St. Station (which is already underused and has room to add at least a couple more platforms if Metra) to create some breathing room at Union.

Some sort of CTA heavy rail integration with Union and Ogilvie is a must for the future. To address the lack of HSR track and platform space I don't think anything is preventing a vertical solution or creating a 2nd set under Canal.

Like the TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS already WASTED on Mayor Daley's Airport Express idea at Block 37
(his motivation being a Big Green Cash Cornucopia for all his connected Consultants, and Construction Companies);
it is "The Emperor's New Clothes" all over again - where nobody D A R E tell His Honor "That Won't Work" Sillyhead.

Unless it is an Air Terminal-to-Downtown Multi-Billion Dollar Mag-Lev System, it won't attract either Investors,
or very many Passengers (like this one in Shanghai doesn't): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAJe...eature=related

Gov. Quinn had a better and cheaper idea of integrating such a service into existing Amtrak and Metra Rail Infrastructure.

High speed is not critical for the airport link. Reliability is what is first and foremost necessary.

If a passenger downtown can be 99% sure of arriving at ORD at a specified time -- regardless of whether it's 20 minutes, 30 minutes, or even 40 minutes away -- it makes the CTA decision more of a no-brainer.

So what is necessary to launch the service are some bypass tracks to nearly eliminate the question of delays.

The second-most important factor would be having a dedicated, clean railcar, preferably with a reconfigured interior with more comfortable seats and space for luggage. Also preferably with plenty of soundproofing (especially for the tunnels).

The mere fact that tired passengers can avoid the constant opening/closing of doors, crowding by miscellaneous commuting passengers, gushing of frigid or hot air, and also not worry about having to rush off the train carrying suitcases during the 30 seconds it is stopped at their destination stop, will make the airport link a natural choice for people.

Beyond all that, one day upgrading it to high-speed is just gravy, if it is actually financially feasible.

As it is, all of these projects are just ideas. However, many are being spoken with some seriousness, as there is a huge push for high speed rail as well as a proposed high speed rail going from downtown to O'Hare. Since there seem to be many proposals on the table, some appear to have conflicting resources, and I was merely suggesting that all plans need to take each other into account so that a master plan of sorts can be created.

I'm very skeptical that the ridership of any of these proposals justify the cost. However, the uninterrupted rail line from downtown to O'Hare may have enough ridership to eventually break even or produce a profit, assuming $15 a ticket. I haven't taken a taxi ride for a while, but I'm guessing that $15+ is about the price of a taxi ride going from O'Hare to downtown. I'm sure that someone here can provide a more accurate fee. Limo rides would be more expensive. And, I agree that this line wouldn't need to be tied to other HSR projects.

I misspoke and assumed facts regarding your interpretation. I should have probably said "Emathius' O'Hare HSR plan appears to follow the blue line corridor going into O'Hare".

I feel slighted at the question, and yes, English is my primary language.


Wow. I thought the red line stops in downtown perform very well for that line. I'm not sure why they would want to re-route it if this project comes to fruition. Having Union/Ogalvie tie into the CTA would be great. Maybe an outer loop circulator would be better?

LaSalle is underused, but it doesn't have room for expansion unless they start tearing down adjacent buildings. It's also an absolutely crappy station. It has one tiny room for waiting, and the rest of the station is outdoors and unsheltered. The station really only exists at the whim of the Chicago Stock Exchange that it wraps around.

Hopefully Metra can bring in some architects and make LaSalle into a proper station. SOM did a tremendous job making Millennium Station into a dignified place.

At Union, Metra can re-arrange the layout to bring a fourth track into the north side and add a second through track along the river. The problem is that because of the station layout, the platforms will have a kink in them (or two, actually). That doesn't meet modern standards, and potential high-speed trains will be quite long.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4707/cusdiagram.jpg

So when do the hoes come out?

ie, when do we get to see some action?

Its considerably more than $15; closer to 40 or more esp in traffic.

(Sorry for the double-post.)

Yeah; based on recent trips, I'll second that cost estimate, with tip (at least in the traffic I experienced going there). Because of that (and because auto traffic to O'Hare varies so wildly, you have to build in a giant, time-wasting safety margin), I'd gladly pay $50 to get to O'Hare if the service was fast and reliable, and I'd pay significantly more if it was really fast.

Btw, my time is probably worth less than half of the money many Loop workers earn (and theoretically would value) on a per-hour basis. So others theoretically should be willing to pay even more.

This discussion brings to mind something that was written at Human Transit:

This also has the corollary that a lot of people who fly very often (i. e. upper business class) are more likely to have some pull on (or overlap with) the political class. That’s why I’d like to see a special airport train (i. e. one that doesn’t work as well with an ordinary commute) piggybacked onto another project, and if we don’t want to wait for a big HSR line than something smaller like improving the North Central Service and providing space for an airport express might do. It would also have the advantage of improving commuter rail service, so even if a private airport service folds any public money put into the infrastructure would still be put to good use (I’m surprised improving the NCS isn’t a higher priority—that corridor seems like it could sustain Milwaukee District levels of service and have a strong reverse commuter base too).

I’d guess that the private project will mostly die when Daley leaves, perhaps belching out an overoptimistic report before it expires. Rahm’s stated transit preferences—the northern Red Line rebuild and southern extension—are the top two in CMAP’s list of priorities for the CTA, so it looks like he’ll have a more technocratic approach to transit with fewer vanity projects like the Circle Line or Block 37 Airport Express. This attitude would seem to lend itself more to Quinn’s Amtrak-partnering proposal, which has a clearer path towards implementation than Daley’s proposal. It’s also worth noting that in Daley’s scheme the mayor would be the brunt of all political risk, whereas bringing the state and Amtrak into the picture helps spread that risk around.

Well, Metra already spent upwards of $200 million to double-track the line all the way from Schiller Park to Antioch. I'd say that qualifies as a big improvement.

It's a little weird - the double-tracking was set up to allow Metra trains to use one track and CN the other, rather than using them directionally.

Still, as part of the EJ&E acquisition, CN plans to dramatically reduce freight traffic on the NCS line. They haven't done this yet because they haven't finished their mitigation on the EJ&E, so the Feds won't allow them to increase the trains on that line yet.

:previous: In their Go To 2040 project evaluation, CMAP only listed that double tracking as a “first phase” of the project, though—they estimated another $300 million would be necessary for “full service.” Although they’ve taken down their big list of proposed projects, ones affecting the northern suburbs can still be found here:

http://www.nwmc-cog.org/Transportati...sNWMCArea.aspx