NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,200 FT / 388 M | 61 FLOORS
 

Scoping documents have been released, as the approval process for this one is about to begin:

Public Scoping Meeting on the 15 Penn Plaza Project

A public scoping meeting will be held on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 at the New York City Department of City Planning’s Spector Hall,
22 Reade Street, New York, New York, 10007. The meeting will begin at 10 AM. Written comments will be accepted by the lead agency
until Wednesday, February 11, 2009.

Draft Scope
EAS

The developers (Vornado) are proposing two development scenarios - single or multi tenant.
The multi tenant tower would be the taller of the two, while the single tenant tower would be
slightly lower (1,119 ft). There is of course the "no build" option, where the developer would build a 580 ft tower.

______________________________

From the documents:

The project is expected to take 4 years (2010-2014)

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354377/large.jpg


Both options would produce a supertall of over 1100 ft :

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354375/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354348/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354374/large.jpg


The gold version is the single tenant option:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354381/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354393/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354413/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354413/original.jpg


The no build alternative:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107354417/large.jpg

Looks to be close to this version:

http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_6_hotelpenntower.jpg
curbed.com


http://www.observer.com/files/imagec...es/vornado.JPG
observer.com

Amazing that in this economy a project like this can still proceed!

Why don't they just add the lousy 2 feet to make it a clean 1,200 footer? In a few more years, the NYC skyline will be just littered with supertalls... in a good way, of course:cheers:

I really really like this design. It's bulky but not overbearing. It just looks like a giant monolith. There's something about the proportions that I am just in love with!:cheers:

What a monster.

.

I have noticed that there have been a lot of tall proposals closer and closer to the Empire State Building. Is it only a matter of time before Empire State is seen as one of many tall buildings in the area, the way Woolworth is in Lower Manhattan? I love the proposals that have come out, but I wonder if they will change the way we view Empire State. I can't help but worry that we may lose something when it comes to the way we perceive Empire State.

lol, BofA's spire will make the building officially taller than this 1198 ft block.

This one doesn't cheat as obviously, but it still has a 50 ft screen on top.

Well, it won't proceed for another two years (2010), so the developers are just putting themselves in position to proceed when things can. As major transportation projects (such as Moynihan Station and the ARC project) come back into focus, this area of Manhattan will see a dramatic change. Unfortunately, sites are limited, so as much space as possible must be built on this lot if it is to replace the Hotel Pennsylvania. Even as proposed now, the larger version is much smaller than what was being planned when Merrill Lynch was the potential tenant.

I'm sure there's other stuff behind the screen, but it doesn't matter.

The Empire State will still be the Empire State because of its history. All of the towers being planned for Manhattan's west side will be of similar height, but none will dominate in the way the Empire State did.

This is an example of how the ESB would compare with a built out west side (railyard proposal is not the current proposal, but of similar height). What's missing is the Hotel Penn tower and it's neighbor accross 7th Ave that will be in the 1100 - 1200 ft range...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/105264746/large.jpg

I think we need a couple of spires in the mix.

Also of note, though the planning for the Moynihan Station project isn't complete yet, it does look like they are planning to move forward without relocation of MSG (not good) but the Penn East tower - said to be from 1100 to 1200 ft, and the Penn West tower are still in the making...

from the draft scope:

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Also of note are the transportation improvements (key to the 20 % building bonus) that we will get...

I like the way this looks!

New York always amazes me.

I've decided that I'm good with either version of the tower being built. The single tenant tower rises from a sheer wall on 7th Avenue, while the multi-tenant version rises from the center of the base and relates more to the Empire State Building (although it could probably use a spire). My preference would have to depend on what design will be proposed for the Penn East site.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401685/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401682/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401685/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401681/large.jpg


Height comparison to other Manhattan towers:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401718/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401719/large.jpg

:O

Nice little Yule-gift this :) the westside will see a huge change. I'm lovin' it.

The style is very pelli-esque.

I like it already.

I like it also. Nice design. The ESB could use some company.

Reminds me of a spring flower (tulip) about to bloom.

Is the facade going to extend above the roof line? The plans are kind of confusing.

Yeah, the facade extends above the "roof" line about 60 feet on both versions...

Single tenant version

Multi tenant version

I'm still undecided on which I prefer. Renderings would help a lot...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107401685/medium.jpg

i'll wait for updated renders. the height and size is phenomenal but i thought the building was ugly the first time it was presented. hoping for aesthetic changes

yeah, the first render we got for this didn't look as tall.

It's taller than some people thought it would be, but still much smaller than what was being planned when Merrill Lynch was a possible tenant. Still, it's another ESB in terms of space and height.

What's also worth keeping an eye on is the Penn East tower accross the street (which could be as tall or taller) and the Penn West site, which seems to be developing into something more than was originally planned.

This is a graceful tower. Hooray for New York.

How tall was it intended to be when Merril Lynch was slated to be a possible tenant?

Getting through the Approval process is cake; it's getting the financing that will be tough....

It's not going to get financing until it gets tenants, which is why there is a dual development scenario. More developers should use these options.

Don't know what the height was, but both this tower and 3 WTC were being planned with about 1 msf extra space (when Merril Lynch was seeking a new headquarters). At 3 WTC that translated into several new floors and greater heights. I would have put it with a roof height somewhere in the 1,300-1,400 ft range, conservatively.

Shouldn't this thread be added to the New York Compilation list?

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-es...e-office-tower

Finally, Check-Out Time for Hotel Penn?
Landlord Vornado launches rezoning push to replace creaky lodge with big office tower

http://www.observer.com/files/imagec...l%20penn_1.JPG

An earlier rendering of a planned office tower at the Hotel Penn site.


by Eliot Brown
January 2, 2009

Steve Roth’s Vornado Realty Trust has filed an application with the city to rezone the site of the 90-year-old Hotel Pennsylvania, clearing hurdles for the real estate firm to demolish the hotel and build an office tower of up to 2.85 million square feet in its place.

In paperwork filed with the Department of City Planning, Vornado wants to rezone the site on 33rd Street and Seventh Avenue to allow for the development of a skyscraper of up to 1,198 feet, one that could hold one major tenant with a large set of trading floors, or a multi-tenant building with a large base of retail.

Mr. Roth, Vornado's chairman, has long billed the 1.4 million-square-foot hotel site as a prime development parcel, part of what he imagines as a completely remade office district surrounding Penn Station (Vornado owns about 7 million square feet of commercial space in the area and has the potential to develop millions more if the redevelopment of the station, known as Moynihan Station, ever happens). He previously called the hotel “a placeholder, sort of like a parking lot, but in this case with $22 million of earnings.”

In order to be permitted to build the 2.85 million square feet, Vornado would reopen the so-called Gimbels Passageway, a subterranean pedestrian tunnel that runs from Penn Station at Seventh Avenue to the subways at Sixth Avenue and Broadway. That move would give Vornado extra density through a transit bonus written into the zoning, though Vornado would also request additional density beyond what is allowed, according to the documents filed with the city.

Vornado has told officials and community members that they have not made any final decision to raze the hotel, and the firm is undergoing this process in order to keep its options open (executives previously said they were considering renovating the hotel). Still, the move represents a significant commitment of resources, time and consultants (to name a few on Vornado’s payroll for the project, according to city records: Patricia Lynch & Associates, Connelly McLaughlin, Stantec; Kramer Levin) and it will likely provoke at least some community resistance.

Some preservationists—though not the main preservation advocacy groups—have been pushing for the designation of the McKim, Mead & White-designed Hotel Penn as a city landmark, a move that would likely bar its destruction. However, the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission in early 2008 issued a letter saying it would not take action on the building as it did not find it to meet the qualifications.

Ultimately the rezoning will need approval from the City Planning Commission and the City Council. On land use decisions like this, the Council is influenced heavily by the local Council member, currently Speaker Christine Quinn.

The filing with City Planning (a draft scoping document that precedes a seven-month approval process) comes a bit more than a year after the site very nearly became the intended home of Merrill Lynch. Mr. Roth has said he had a handshake agreement with then Merrill CEO Stan O’Neal to build the firm’s new headquarters on the site, though the bank’s board never took up the action in a late 2007 meeting, and Mr. O’Neal was forced out shortly thereafter.

On a slightly unrelated note, the paperwork sounds a hopeful note on Moynihan Station (where Vornado is one of two designated developers), saying “it is conservatively estimated” that by 2014, the following will be complete:

-Redevelopment of the Farley Complex with approximately 235,000 gsf of office use, 125,000 gsf of hotel use, and approximately 553,000 gsf of destination retail space;

-Development of the Penn East site [between 33rd and 34th streets along Seventh Avenue] with approximately 1.9 million gsf of office use and approximately 71,000 gsf of destination retail space; and

-Development of the Penn West site [between 33rd and 34th streets along Eighth Avenue] with approximately 574,000 gsf of hotel use, approximately 37,000 gsf of retail space, and approximately 490 residential units."

Looks like Vornado is getting serious about building on the Hotel Penn site. This baby could be huge. That crappy old hotel needs to be dismantled, it's an embarassment to the city.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/20...Finally_Dunzo_

Is the Hotel Penn Finally Dunzo?

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/14...MTVcontest.jpg
Matt Stratton

January 2, 2009

The day we've all thought was coming for a long time may finally be upon us: The NY Observer is reporting that a realty trust has filed an application with the New York City to rezone Hotel Pennsylvania's property, ostensibly to pave the way to demolish the hotel to build a planned office tower where the hotel now stands. Could it be?

The company interested in knocking down the hotel is Vornado Realty Trust, the same one who got us excited about the demolition of the old run-down hotel this time two years ago.

But it's all a bit more complicated than it seems:

Some preservationists — though not the main preservation advocacy groups — have been pushing for the designation ... Hotel Penn as a city landmark, a move that would likely bar its destruction. However, the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission in early 2008 issued a letter saying it would not take action on the building as it did not find it to meet the qualifications. Ultimately the rezoning will need approval from the City Planning Commission and the City Council.

While we respect historic landmarks, the Hotel Penn is in dire need of an overhaul. We can only hope that something good will happen here.

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http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/20..._s_Grimey_View

Grimey Windows Don't Distract From Hotel Penn's Grimey View

December 26, 2008

You know the scene. You open the door to your brand new hotel room, run over to the window, open the blinds and bam, you are hit with the anti-view. Maybe you are looking down a dirty alley, witnessing a drug deal, staring at an air shaft in the face, or seeing a brick wall. Whatever you are viewing it is not extremely pleasurable. Help out your fellow hotel mavens by uploading your anti-views to the HotelChatter/Flickr photo pool, or by sending the photo along to us. Remember to tell us the name of the hotel and the room number with the not-so-easy-on-the-eyes view.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/69...elpennview.jpg

Oh, Hotel Pennsylvania. You have been through so much, haven't you? You had gotten so run down and exhausted that you were ready to give up — and then you were saved from the wrecking ball , only to continue living your life thrown into such degrading and humiliating situations as being given away to viewers of the same network that airs shows like "Parental Control" and "Next." We get why you might be a bit lazy or down & out these days.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/ad...pennwindow.jpg

But you know what? We're not sure we can support this: a view that is so utterly crappy that it appears you have allowed your windows to grime up so much that, presumably, the guest may be distracted from such a bad view. A Flickr-er by the name of r3v cls stayed at the Penn last April and was greeted not only by these atrocious views (but in the Penn's defense, NYC is a big city and there isn't a whole lot of room for sweeping, scenic panoramic eye-feasts), but the windows standing between the guest and such views are coated with a pretty sexy layer of dirt.

Check out this closeup of the window, which was accompanied by the following caption by the photographer: "Now that's a dirty window. You'd think it was raining or foggy or something. Nope." Gross.

Photos: r3v cls

The taller building is this tower by Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects (they are also given credit for those sections in the pdf). Though the rendering may not seem accurate height-wise, the design is the same.

http://www.observer.com/files/imagec...l%20penn_1.JPG

Right. More detailed renderings of both versions will probably be released, although the designs could still be altered somewhat. But street level and and alternate view renderings would help us get a better feel for the tower.

All the more reason to get an office tower built on this site (it has the largest footprint in central Midtown) as well as the other surrounding sites...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/ny...1&ref=nyregion
2nd Hudson Rail Tunnel Clears Key Federal Hurdle


By KEN BELSON
January 14, 2009

The prospects for a second rail tunnel under the Hudson River to Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan received a major boost on Wednesday when federal authorities approved an environmental assessment for a $9 billion tunnel planned by New Jersey Transit and the Port Authority.

The agencies can now apply to get their final design accepted and lobby the federal government for the remaining $3 billion needed to begin work on the project, which is expected to be completed by 2017. If all goes well, the agencies believe they will be able to break ground in the summer.

Known as Access to the Region’s Core, or ARC, the tunnel would double the number of trains that can travel under the Hudson between New York and New Jersey to 48 per hour, from 23 now. The extra train service is expected to eliminate 22,000 automobile trips a day.

The new service also would allow more New Jersey Transit riders to reach New York without having to change trains in Newark or Secaucus. A second tunnel would also relieve pressure on the century-old tunnel that New Jersey Transit shares with Amtrak. The project’s six new tracks in Manhattan, which would terminate beneath 34th Street, would also allow commuters to connect underground to the subways and PATH trains at Avenue of the Americas.
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“The timing couldn’t be better, because the region could benefit from a project like this,” said Anthony R. Coscia, the chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which has contributed $3 billion to the project. “In the near term, it will put a lot of people to work, and in the long term, it will revolutionize how people get into the city.”

The project is expected to generate 6,000 jobs a year during construction. An additional 44,000 jobs could be created because the tunnel would provide easier access to New York City, according to New Jersey Transit.

So I decided to model this.
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/213/penndn2.jpg
Enjoy.

^ That's fantastic! I even see the Tower Verre. Now let's see the other version, please...:tup:

(Oh, and maybe add a generic 1,100 to 1,200 ft tower on the east side of 1 Penn Plaza for good measure in either version)

Great job, but the BofA needs a little touching up...

Today is the day for this:

I don't expect a lot of fireworks from this, but maybe we will learn something interesting.

This'll be interesting indeed. I'm sure many questions will be answered, and possibly a solid timeline will be distributed. I do believe that at some point this site will amount to the likes of an office tower, it's just a matter of when. Between demolishing what the site currently contains, financing, and construction, it'll for sure take some time.

Sorry for this unrelated question, but, why hasn't there been any tall high-rise construction north of of Empire State Bldg. and south of the Midtown skyscraper core?

Grand Central Terminal. Perhaps the greatest and most practical reason as to why Manhattan is so dense with commercial highrises, north of the ESB and south of Central Park is due to GCT. A perk that developers and property managers love to include for their tenants is the close proximity to Grand Central.

The revitalization of Penn will cause in time the same effect on the Westside, however pure lack of space in the Midtown commercial epicenter is also to note for the commercial shift.

im not sure but I think thats a protected area for the garment district.

Am I the only one who thinks this looks terrible? Its sheer visual mass dwarfs the Empire State Building in an insensitive and frankly ugly way.

It needs to be worthy of the title if it is to succeed the ESB as the "King of Manhattan" (and it will, since they are so close).

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/213/penndn2.jpg

No matter what, the ESB will still be the King of Manhattan. It's been that way for so many years, nothing could possibly change it, even a 2000 footer on the next block.

Also, if anything, it will become the Younger, Slightly Less Handsome Brother of the King. More like an friend than a successor.

Yay for metaphors. :P

The proboem is, the definition of "worthy" will change for each and every person. The Empire State Building was built and designed for the early 20th century. This one is being designed for the 21st century - which means a larger mass of tower rising into the sky. Personally, I prefer a sheer mass in skyscrapers.

The Empire State Building has never really been in the central Midtown business district - despite being just a couple of blocks from Penn Station, the country's busiest transportation hub. Developing a business district around Penn Station is one of the reasons this tower will be built (along with others in the vicinity).

Interesting piece of info:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgo...&rc=1194&ndi=1

February 2, 2009

MAYOR BLOOMBERG AND COMMISSIONER LIMANDRI ANNOUNCE ONLINE DIAGRAMS OF PROPOSED BUILDINGS AND A NEW DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGE PROCESS


...New York City will become the first city in the nation to put diagrams of proposed new buildings or major enlargements online so the public can view the size and scale of a proposed building.

A new 30-day formal public challenge period will be implemented to give the public a greater voice in the development process and provide clarity for developers about when and how a project can move forward. The Mayor was joined at the announcement by Deputy Mayor for Economic Development Robert Lieber.

The new measures, which fulfill a commitment the Mayor made in his State of the City address last month, will go into effect starting Monday, March 9th.

"Until now, knowledge of development approvals has been limited to a small group of insiders with expert knowledge. This puts the public at a disadvantage and creates uncertainty for developers, who could be subject to a challenge long after a building is out of the ground," said Commissioner LiMandri. "This new process will give the public a chance to see what a building will look like before the first shovel hits the ground and developers certainty that once the public has had an opportunity to comment and any compliance issues have been resolved, their project can move forward. These reforms increase transparency and raise accountability across the board."

Architects and engineers filing applications for new buildings and major enlargements will be required to submit diagrams, which will be available at www.nyc.gov. The diagrams will detail critical information that can be used by the public to determine whether a project is in compliance with required zoning regulations. The diagrams will include the size of the project, drawn to scale, and where a building will sit in relation to the street.

The 30-day public-challenge process establishes a defined and organized means for the public to challenge zoning decisions by DOB that they believe are incorrect

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Funny, the amount of pandering that comes out before an election. Bloomberg has long been criticized for being too "cozy" with developers.