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Crawford Feb 12, 2017 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl (Post 7709402)
In this case it looks like the "No build" option is the best one.

How is building nothing preferable to building a less-than-perfect rail line to the airport?

ChargerCarl Feb 12, 2017 6:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 7709419)
How is building nothing preferable to building a less-than-perfect rail line to the airport?

It's not less than perfect, it's crappy. And it's really, really expensive.

Bronxwood Feb 12, 2017 7:00 AM

Has anyone considered building an airtrain over grand central parkway with a connection to the N and W lines at Astoria Boulevard? Or maybe extend the W or N train from Astoria boulevard, over the grand central parkway and into LGA. This way it avoids disrupting the neighborhoods by bypassing them altogether. This would be similar to what we see with the jamaica branch of the jfk airtrain, which causes little to no disruptions to residents of ozone park and jamaica since it goes over the highway instead of city streets.

Crawford Feb 12, 2017 7:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl (Post 7709465)
It's not less than perfect, it's crappy. And it's really, really expensive.

Well it's happening. If you're morally or otherwise opposed to a rail line to LGA, the express bus lines aren't going anywhere, and you're welcome to take nearly twice the travel time on either bus.

As someone who often takes transit to LGA, this will make my life easier. The only ways the buses make more sense is if you're headed to Upper Manhattan, the Bronx, or around Jackson Heights/Elmhurst, Queens.

Crawford Feb 12, 2017 7:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronxwood (Post 7709491)
Has anyone considered building an airtrain over grand central parkway with a connection to the N and W lines at Astoria Boulevard? Or maybe extend the W or N train from Astoria boulevard, over the grand central parkway and into LGA. This way it avoids disrupting the neighborhoods by bypassing them altogether. This would be similar to what we see with the jamaica branch of the jfk airtrain, which causes little to no disruptions to residents of ozone park and jamaica since it goes over the highway instead of city streets.

I don't know if this has been considered, but there are four immediate problems.

1. There will be opposition, guaranteed. The JFK Airtrain was fought, for years, by residents adjacent to the Van Wyck. The Port Authority had to defend multiple lawsuits.

2. The W and N trains have less available capacity than the Queens Blvd. line. You would put airport passengers on a badly overburdened line. You can't add express trains as with LIRR.

3. As with JFK and Newark, the Airtrain is being designed to meet the needs of airport workers as much as airport travelers. LGA workers live in Queens and on LI, so a line connecting to Astoria, in far NW Queens, makes no sense.

4. What about the LIRR? The current project has subway and LIRR access.

ChargerCarl Feb 12, 2017 7:49 AM

I hope this changes your mind about Cuomo, Crawford:

https://pedestrianobservations.wordp...genda-setting/

BrownTown Feb 12, 2017 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 7709348)
Wrong. The Airtain project will cut LGA-Midtown travel times from 45 minutes to 25 minutes.

How the hell do you figure 25 minutes? Only way I can see that as even being remotely possible is if you catch both trains perfectly as they get ready to depart.

mrnyc Feb 14, 2017 5:24 PM

maybe someday, when the state can gather the scratch to bring the lga airtrain to jamaica, thus providing both inter-airport rail service with jfk and an outer-borough loop of rail transit, some people will see the big picture about it.

ChargerCarl Feb 14, 2017 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 7711594)
maybe someday, when the state can gather the scratch to bring the lga airtrain to jamaica, thus providing both inter-airport rail service with jfk and an outer-borough loop of rail transit, some people will see the big picture about it.

Total cost: $20 billion.

Astorian Feb 15, 2017 1:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 7709509)
I don't know if this has been considered, but there are four immediate problems.

1. There will be opposition, guaranteed. The JFK Airtrain was fought, for years, by residents adjacent to the Van Wyck. The Port Authority had to defend multiple lawsuits.

2. The W and N trains have less available capacity than the Queens Blvd. line. You would put airport passengers on a badly overburdened line. You can't add express trains as with LIRR.

3. As with JFK and Newark, the Airtrain is being designed to meet the needs of airport workers as much as airport travelers. LGA workers live in Queens and on LI, so a line connecting to Astoria, in far NW Queens, makes no sense.

4. What about the LIRR? The current project has subway and LIRR access.

2. I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. The Queens blvd line is the busiest and most overburdened corridor outside of manhattan. Its even busier than some/most manhattan trunks. The Astoria line on the other hand, is over served in terms of TPH. The only reason why the Astoria line has as many TPH as it does is because it serves a major transfer point to the 7. There's a reason why Queens blvd is getting CBTC first and not Astoria.

Astoria can handle the additional airport passengers with its currents peak of 15/16 TPH. Especially if off peak service is increased to closer match rush hour service. Flights aren't scheduled around rush hour, so most passengers heading to the airport will do so outside of rush hour instead of adding to the rush hour crush.

Besides, any extension to the Astoria line will come with a new terminal that can be designed to handle turning around more trains than Ditmars Blvd. The 60st tunnel can easily handle an additional 5/6 TPH bound to Astoria during rush hour, maybe more with CBTC. A new terminal that can handle 20/25 TPH at LGA would be more than enough to handle Astoria residents and airport traffic. But like i said earlier, the current max of 15/16 TPH could handle that service just fine.

3. You are assuming that all LGA workers live in eastern queens and LI. A baseless assumption without any statistics to back that up. If anything, given the population distribution of the city, at least 6/7 million people would be better served from an N extension than a willets point air train. A shuttle bus to Willets Point can cheaply and easily meet the needs for the few people coming from LI and eastern queens.

4. The LIRR stop will be cumbersome to reach from the air train, which will be connecting to the 7. I'm not sure if you've ever been to Willets point, but its a bit of a walk from the LIRR to the 7. Whatever time you save in taking the LIRR over a 7 express, will be reduced by not only the walking distance to the air train, but also the lack of frequency of the LIRR Port Washington Line.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only reason why LGA exists till this day is its proximity to Manhattan. JFK would have absorbed it long ago if anyone cared about convenience to LI or eastern Queens. Creating an air train that WILL NOT reduce any travel to Manhattan serves no purpose. No one is gonna take the 7 to Willets Point when they can get off at 74th st and take the shuttle. No one traveling with luggage, kids, or flying for business is gonna take the LIRR for a 5/10 minute walk to the air train. The only reason why this project is going forward is so that Cuomo can toot his own horn regarding transit.

If Cuomo were serious about transit, he would've signed the lock box preventing the state from using the MTA as a piggy bank. Instead he vetoed it. He would have secured dedicated funding for the MTA's capital plan, like he did with Upstate's roads, instead of forcing the MTA to take on more debt. He would throw his weight around projects that benefit the 8.5 million New Yorkers, rather than spending all his efforts on transportation projects that mostly benefit the rich/powerful and visitors.

I won't deny that Cuomo's efforts are better than most, but its hilarious to see people here applauding the little work he's done on transit. Cuomo is not pro-transit, he's just an opportunist.

mrnyc Feb 15, 2017 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl (Post 7711840)
Total cost: $20 billion.


no. actually, that final section would be the least expensive part of the whole system. hmm, maybe the jamaica unification golden spike point could jack it up that high though. :haha: :shrug:

ChargerCarl Feb 15, 2017 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 7713220)
no. actually, that final section would be the least expensive part of the whole system. hmm, maybe the jamaica unification golden spike point could jack it up that high though. :haha: :shrug:

I wouldn't put it past Cuomo.

mrsmartman Feb 18, 2017 1:57 PM

Doblin: Cuomo takes Robert Moses into the 21st century

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred P. Doblin
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo wants to build things. Big things. Robert Moses' kind of big. For youngsters who’ve never heard of Robert Moses or read “The Powerbroker,” Robert Caro’s bench-pressing, more-than-1,000-page biography of Moses, he was the supreme New York power broker of the 20th century. He outlasted mayors, governors and presidents, and rebuilt much of New York to his liking.

Some of his legacy is glorious – the parkways on Long Island that take people to pristine beaches and spacious parks. Some of his legacy is ignoble – those same parkways were designed to be crossed by low-arched bridges to prevent city buses filled with persons of color from easily getting to the pristine beaches and spacious parks.

Moses loved power. And he believed if you started building something, the funding would come later. It usually did.

Andrew Cuomo, son of former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo, is on a mission to redesign La Guardia Airport. He also is claiming victory over the Second Avenue subway – which still doesn’t go very far, but it is finally going. He is building a new Tappan Zee Bridge. He’s just getting warmed up.

This month, he announced a plan to spend $10 billion on John F. Kennedy International Airport...

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...tury/96255012/

ChargerCarl Feb 18, 2017 6:23 PM

^what an awful fluff piece.

Gantz Feb 21, 2017 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 7709419)
How is building nothing preferable to building a less-than-perfect rail line to the airport?

FYI This airtrain will be going OPPOSITE direction, AWAY from Manhattan. As a result, the current bus to subway commute will be faster than AirTrain to subway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 7707945)
It will be a 25 minute ride from LGA to Manhattan.

Unless this AirTrain connects to a Hyperloop or a teleportation device this is impossible. There is a reason why this is called the worst possible plan. Realistically, this will be close to a 1 hour commute, depending on how smooth they will make the transfers and how lucky you get with the trains.

I am also not convinced that running the airtrain over the Grand Central Parkway in one direction is significantly more expensive than running it in the other direction for roughly the same distance. I'd like to see a study on that.
Running it in the opposite (towards Manhattan) direction saves like 20 mins on the commute easily and you get to transfer to a significantly less busy subway line.

mrsmartman Feb 24, 2017 4:48 PM

Two staircases at Broad Street will be permanently closed

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/578/32...aa0fea58_b.jpgScreen Shot 2017-02-21 at 5.17.28 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

Read more: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/foru...nently-closed/

chris08876 Feb 26, 2017 1:37 AM

DOT Bike Counts Are In and NYC Cycling Hit New Highs in 2016

http://nyc.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...0th-street.png

https://i1.wp.com/nyc.streetsblog.or...%2C100%2C345px

http://nyc.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...ensus-data.png
Quote:

Cycling in New York City continued to climb last year, according to the latest metrics from NYC DOT [PDF]. The new stats show that while cyclist counts in the center city aren’t increasing as rapidly as they did from 2005 to 2011, Census counts of bike commuters are rising as fast as ever.

In 2016, bike counts at the four East River bridges increased 2.3 percent and counts of cyclists crossing 50th Street increased 17 percent compared to the year before.

The report also shows the growth in Citi Bike ridership as the system has expanded. The average daily number of bike-share trips jumped from about 27,300 in 2015 to about 38,500 in 2016

With the bike-share network growing up to 125th Street, it’s not a surprise that bike counts at 86th Street increased 11 percent compared to the year before. This is the first time DOT has released the 86th Street counts as part of its annual cycling report:

Meanwhile, in the annual Census survey, the three-year average of daily bike commuters increased to 45,000 in 2015, up from 41,800 the previous year.

Extrapolating from the Census numbers, DOT estimates that New Yorkers make 450,000 bike trips on an average day (because in general, commuting accounts for about 20 percent of all trips).


While DOT has recently said it intends to develop new metrics to track citywide cycling trends, those are not in evidence except for the 86th Street counts. With significant bike infrastructure investments underway or in the pipeline for locations like Queens Boulevard, the Grand Concourse, Bruckner Boulevard, and the Harlem River bridges, expanding the scope of the bike counts makes more sense than ever. Rumor has it that more bike count locations are in progress, but DOT said it has no plans at this time to release annual bike counts for outer borough locations.
=========================
http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/02/0...highs-in-2016/

mrsmartman Mar 3, 2017 4:29 AM

Should there even be a One Seat Ride to the Airport?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanshnookenraggen
Continuing on his infrastructure grand tour Governor Andrew Cuomo announced last month that he was proposing a $10 billion overhaul of JFK Airport. Included in the proposal are plans for expanding the Van Wyck Expressway (how “green” of him) and finding ways to expand and improve the AirTrain...

...

A one seat ride from an airport to a city center is considered best practices for developed countries. Transit access in general is considered a basic necessity for airports but this is something that American cities leave as an afterthought. LAX is famously impossible to get to via the Metro even though the Green Line terminates relatively close. NYC had subway plans in the works for connections to Floyd Bennett Field (before LaGuardia built his own airport) and when the IND Queens Blvd subway was built provisions were added for a line down Van Wyck Blvd which could have easily been extended to then Idlewild Airport (today JFK Airport) until Robert Moses chose to build an expressway instead. In the 1990s plans were floated to extend the N train to LaGuardia but were shot down by local politicians. The MTA once ran the Train-to-the-Plane but this proved unpopular given the need to transfer to a bus at Howard Beach. The Port Authority built the AirTrain, which opened in 2003, and has proved much more successful even though it still requires a transfer from the subway or LIRR...

Read more: http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...o-the-airport/

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...lga_mtrain.jpg

Map showing proposed M train subway extension to LaGuardia Airport.

mrsmartman Mar 3, 2017 1:30 PM

SUBWAY KIOSKS, Manhattan

http://forgotten-ny.com/wp-content/u...5/02/kiosk.jpg

Quote:

I wish I knew the exact location of this photo from 1960, but I don’t. The photo shows some of the last remaining entrance and exit kiosks, constructed by the IRT, or Interborough Rapid Transit (today’s numbered subway lines) for its original 28 stations from City Hall north to 145th Street along Elm (now Lafayette Street) 4th/Park Avenue South, 42nd Street and Broadway...
Read More: http://forgotten-ny.com/2015/02/subw...sks-manhattan/

Crawford Mar 3, 2017 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsmartman (Post 7729213)
Should there even be a One Seat Ride to the Airport?

The idea of "one seat rides" don't make any sense anyways. Few major airports have only one terminal, so you have to transfer to another mode of transit on the airport end. Few city centers are so small that most travelers can be accommodated by a single rail route, so you don't get the "one seat ride" on the city end either.

Example- I always take the train to/from the airport when visiting Paris, yet don't think I've ever had a "one seat ride". The only way this would be possible would be if my hotel were on the RER B line, but there are relatively few hotels along this route. Most hotels are on the RER A or C lines, or near a Metro station, so I have to transfer anyways. Not a big deal.

What's important is that airports have frequent, convenient access, with simple transfers, and kid, luggage and handicapped friendly.


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