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-   -   CHICAGO | Salesforce Tower | 850 FT | 60 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217949)

MorganChi Aug 23, 2018 1:47 PM

Build the freaking led crown the city needs something different for a change !!!!!!!

marothisu Aug 23, 2018 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgsrand (Post 8290768)
Yeah seems like the city is in the driver seat on this one...just for reference what kind of tax incentives did the city offer Boeing back in the early 2000's? I know its not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Something like $3M per year for 20 years...triggered back in 2001. Of course it's not the same. We are talking about $10M for 5000 new employees versus $3M per year for maybe 200 to 400 employees tops. Salesforce deal number wise much better. I agree about the $10M thing. Obviously get it down, but seems to be blown way out of hand by some people considering what 5000 new workers would bring.

Kenmore Aug 23, 2018 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 8290691)
I didn't see signage mentioned anywhere. I'm sure they'd have some facing the street like some big anchors.

Quote:

Salesforce has asked the city for concessions including rights to put "extremely extensive" signage
fanboys gonna fanboy i guess

marothisu Aug 23, 2018 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenmore (Post 8290817)
fanboys gonna fanboy i guess

I don't even have an opinion of salesforce as I've never used their products nor do I know anyone who works for them. I don't read up on them. I'm not a fanboy, sorry. I can think of a few other companies I have a hard on for. Salesforce is definitely not one of them. But I do think that 5000 skilled jobs for the city is probably a good thing. Do you not think it's a good thing?

My statement that you bolded was fact. I didn't see any signage anywhere. I think a reasonable reaction would have been to quote the article you read which mentions signage. Care to do that?

chiphile Aug 23, 2018 2:32 PM

These clowns should be told to :gtfo2: This isn't Indianapolis.

From the article:

"Salesforce has asked the city for concessions including rights to put "extremely extensive" signage—including a "video wall"—on the exterior of the Wolf Point building . . . The company also requested a $10 million property tax abatement, which city officials have balked at . . . Salesforce is also seeking exclusive use on certain occasions of park and related public way space around the Wolf Point site that is supposed to be used strictly for public purposes . . .

" prompted the city to adopt an ordinance setting limits on signage size and location on buildings along the river . . . Salesforce's request would "totally eviscerate" that ordinance."

jpIllInoIs Aug 23, 2018 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenmore (Post 8290817)
fanboys gonna fanboy i guess

Marothisu doesn't need my defense, but in fact is the most data driven contributor on the forum. just sayin.

k1052 Aug 23, 2018 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiphile (Post 8290856)
These clowns should be told to :gtfo2: This isn't Indianapolis.

From the article:

"Salesforce has asked the city for concessions including rights to put "extremely extensive" signage—including a "video wall"—on the exterior of the Wolf Point building . . . The company also requested a $10 million property tax abatement, which city officials have balked at . . . Salesforce is also seeking exclusive use on certain occasions of park and related public way space around the Wolf Point site that is supposed to be used strictly for public purposes . . .

"[T]prompted the city to adopt an ordinance setting limits on signage size and location on buildings along the river . . . Salesforce's request would "totally eviscerate" that ordinance."

As long as the signage and video wall is tasteful the city will compromise. The examples from their other properties make me less concerned. I don't think literally anybody cares if they close down what is otherwise a not very accessible portion of riverfront once in a while like buildings along the north side do and I live two blocks from this...visited the WPW river walk exactly once since it was finished.

Really I just want the tax abatement worked down. I can live with a couple million bucks.

I'd expect Rahm to work this out pretty rapidly given the approaching election.

Notyrview Aug 23, 2018 3:06 PM

Well, can't argue with the benefits of 5000 workers. but we should be clear that it's "up to 5000 workers". So while they're certain to go on a hiring spree, nothing is set in stone. As well, the minute there's a downturn, companies like Salesforce will be the first to feel it, and they'll cut loose workers in satellite cities like Chicago first. That's where the resistance to these tax breaks come from. There's too many "what ifs" and why would anyone trust a company trying to weasel out of their civic duty in the first instance?

rlw777 Aug 23, 2018 3:15 PM

If they put the same sort of video crown on this thing I'm just gonna assume it hits supertall height. The roof of the SF Salesforce tower is at 913' so the crown extends 150' above that.

MayorOfChicago Aug 23, 2018 3:19 PM

If these jobs pay $50,000 per year on average that's $12,375,000 in income taxes, along with all the extra sales taxes and property taxes created by the workforce. You'll need a few thousand new housing units for them I'm assuming, much of it would be absorbed from people living here already, but a net gain in fresh jobs is going to trickle down to a net gain in needed housing at the end of the day.

I'm not excited about $10M in future tax breaks, but you'll probably be pulling in $30M+ per year just from the additional income and sales taxes along with say 2,000 net new homes needed paying $7,000 per year in real estate taxes.

MayorOfChicago Aug 23, 2018 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 8290292)
I'm not completely sold.

1) The walk from Union Station to WPS would be 1 mile. From Ogilvie it's around 3/4 of a mile. I would bet money that if they had enough people coming into those stations, they'd just run some shuttle service. There are people who would walk that, but I don't think it's as close as you think maybe. If they don't have a lot of people coming from the suburbs, then the Fire Station is arguably a better site only because it's in between the Red, Brown, and Purple lines. Although I think WPS is better in terms of statement making, beauty (i.e. the river), and the potential to advertise if they were allowed to.

I wish they would build a ped bridge from River Pointe to Wolf Point.

JK47 Aug 23, 2018 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 8290791)
Something like $3M per year for 20 years...triggered back in 2001. Of course it's not the same. We are talking about $10M for 5000 new employees versus $3M per year for maybe 200 to 400 employees tops. Salesforce deal number wise much better.


The Boeing deal was a headquarters relocation that also gives the state a corporate income tax bump that I think works out to $6M per year.

marothisu Aug 23, 2018 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 8290947)
If these jobs pay $50,000 per year on average that's $12,375,000 in income taxes, along with all the extra sales taxes and property taxes created by the workforce. You'll need a few thousand new housing units for them I'm assuming, much of it would be absorbed from people living here already, but a net gain in fresh jobs is going to trickle down to a net gain in needed housing at the end of the day.

I'm not excited about $10M in future tax breaks, but you'll probably be pulling in $30M+ per year just from the additional income and sales taxes along with say 2,000 net new homes needed paying $7,000 per year in real estate taxes.

Yep. And for Salesforce based on the data I've seen for their Chicago office, $50K is low. That is more of what their sales people make as base salary. Their software developers were average close to 6 figures or actually 6 figures. When I did a rough calculation yesterday, I used closer to $75K average which may be even low.

The housing is a good point, which people seem to fail to not be able to think about these things at such a deep level. We aren't talking about 200 people. We are talking about 5000 new jobs. There will be indirect impact in things like you say like new housing, the tax generated from that, the new jobs, etc.

bgsrand Aug 23, 2018 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 8290930)
Well, can't argue with the benefits of 5000 workers. but we should be clear that it's "up to 5000 workers". So while they're certain to go on a hiring spree, nothing is set in stone. As well, the minute there's a downturn, companies like Salesforce will be the first to feel it, and they'll cut loose workers in satellite cities like Chicago first. That's where the resistance to these tax breaks come from. There's too many "what ifs" and why would anyone trust a company trying to weasel out of their civic duty in the first instance?


That's a good point...is there a way to have any tax incentives track the pace of hiring? Can have incentives based on the economic impact of hiring a new employee base.

marothisu Aug 23, 2018 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8290980)
The Boeing deal was a headquarters relocation that also gives the state a corporate income tax bump that I think works out to $6M per year.

And 5000 more employees will be a lot more than $10M every year all things considered.

marothisu Aug 23, 2018 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notyrview (Post 8290930)
Well, can't argue with the benefits of 5000 workers. but we should be clear that it's "up to 5000 workers". So while they're certain to go on a hiring spree, nothing is set in stone. As well, the minute there's a downturn, companies like Salesforce will be the first to feel it, and they'll cut loose workers in satellite cities like Chicago first. That's where the resistance to these tax breaks come from. There's too many "what ifs" and why would anyone trust a company trying to weasel out of their civic duty in the first instance?

Which is exactly why EDGE tax credits are set up the way they are. The company and government make an agreement for hiring X new workers, and they only start receiving their tax break when X has been hit.

They've had this program for years and numerous companies have done it. This isn't some new problem of a company promising to hire some number of workers. It's called the EDGE program. Problem solved.

bgsrand Aug 23, 2018 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 8291037)
Which is exactly why EDGE tax credits are set up the way they are. The company and government make an agreement for hiring X new workers, and they only start receiving their tax break when X has been hit.

They've had this program for years and numerous companies have done it. This isn't some new problem of a company promising to hire some number of workers. It's called the EDGE program. Problem solved.

guess that answers my question

Chisouthside Aug 23, 2018 4:35 PM

Will be a pretty crowded worksite if both wpe and wps are under construction at the same time.

Steely Dan Aug 23, 2018 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisouthside (Post 8291070)
Will be a pretty crowded worksite if both wpe and wps are under construction at the same time.

potentially, but if the salesforce deal is hammered out and the south tower timeline is accelerated, i still think it's likely that the east tower will be at least topped out before construction would begin on the south tower (probably 12 months from now, at the earliest), which at least eliminates the logistical issues of dual concrete deliveries

Notyrview Aug 23, 2018 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 8291037)
Which is exactly why EDGE tax credits are set up the way they are. The company and government make an agreement for hiring X new workers, and they only start receiving their tax break when X has been hit.

They've had this program for years and numerous companies have done it. This isn't some new problem of a company promising to hire some number of workers. It's called the EDGE program. Problem solved.

Very good i stand corrected


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