Yeah I don't get openly saying "f these people, I hope they die" just because they haven't gotten a vaccine. Disagree with them, fine, I do as well. But these are still people with families that love them.

Well obviously they chose to not get vaccinated....that's what this whole thing is about, and it's annoying to have to tell you that. Thankfully I saw THE SCIENCE (Fauci) suggest mandatory LOCAL shots :tup:. Follow the science....
What if we live in one of those areas?
Nobody said you have to feel sympathy, and if you don't, then it should be easier for you to treat them as "the other". If they don't matter you shouldn't care so much about their choice, and I have been saying we take that choice away from them. That would hurt their feelings the most.
Yes, I disagree with them but they obviously don't need to die; especially if we can prevent it with one or two shots. What I don't mind doing is stripping their freedom and forcing them to vaccinate, since that's better for them than death.

Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

We do this all the time, right now. Hardly "scary shit".

You want your kids enrolled in school, or participating in many activities? They better have all required vaccinations, a recent physical, etc.

In a civilized society, when you choose to interact with others, society can request things of you if you want the privileges of said interactions. Of course you can reject such privileges, but the alternative is living like a hobo.

...calling it a "medical treatment" :worship:. Clever.
However, it's just a "simple prick of the skin" and people are gonna have to do it if they want to go to school, travel, see their favorite band, ect. I never claimed to not say scary things too, so idk.

That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

Well if you care about the deaths and not forcing people that's ok. It's when people are ok with death but not ok with....hurting the feelings of the unvaccinated.
Like I said though we can get to a point where they are "the other"...and I think that would be with another lockdown. Don't worry though, I'm not saying there will be another lockdown, I just know the threat of it can turn all of you against the unvaccinated.

People smoke, drink, eat fast food and consume copious amounts of sugar and wind up dying from resulting conditions but we still 'allow' free will as we will with those who refuse to get covid vaccines. I'm all for carrot and stick to get more people vaccinated but forcing it is not the solution and would be met with pushback.

Locally there are rules against those, and Fauci did say that he sees a possibility in localized mandates (but not federally). So while not official, the science is pointing to localized mandates. I find it cheesy, but everybody says "follow the science" and Fauci is the science.

There aren't rules "against those". There are rules making those more expensive and regulating WHERE they can be done. But nobody says you can't smoke period or you can't eat sugar or drink sugary drinks or whatever.

The only consumable we still ban totally are mind-altering drugs and those prohibitions appear on the way out.

In this case, since being unvaccinated and therefore potentially a covid "Typhoid Mary" is a danger to everyone with whom you are in contact, I am for severely restricting the activities where the unvaccinated are allowed to participate including workplaces and most indoor group venues. It was one thing when there was nothing anyone could do except wear a mask to limit their potential as a coronavirus spreader but now there is and I have no sympathy for those who won't take advantage. Let them stay home or go outside and that's about it.

Oh so those are rules, but not rules? Not sure how I get around that, unless that's the point since I'm being scary to some. Sorry, I wont be scary any more.
What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

I think I addressed that: Stay home or enjoy yourself outside if you aren't vaccinated but that's close to "it".

100. It's easy to blame somebody, but it turns out it's more complex than just looking at a map and saying: "look! I told you so!"

Until it's FDA approved, not even the military can force service members to take a shot. And there's been another setback with J&J's vaccine.

Most of the unvaccinated are young adults.

in other news, Canada reported just 2 deaths today, 282 new cases nationally, active cases fall below 5,000 for the first time since last August 2020.
2 Provinces and 2 territories are now covid free (No new cases in over a week):

Nunavut
Northwest Territories
PEI
New Brunswick (new member)

https://covid19tracker.ca/province.html

https://apnews.com/article/health-co...c4caf531c980dc

"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.

Young people that were asymptomatic and lightly ill with cold like symptoms will tell you: It's just a cold. No big deal. etc.

Remember we've had 100,000,000 Americans infected and recovered from Covid.

Fully vaccinated older people are still freaked out and will act as if it's the Black Plague.

Consider the one country that starts with a C. We wouldn't be able to blame them....are you sure? Humans need blame though, and if we can shift it towards the unvaccinated, all of you will care less about their freedoms. That is just human nature, so don't worry about it.

They force people to take shots every day, and if it's not FDA approved they use other methods to get people to vaccinate. Like shame, bullying, ect...

Oh...so the whole "they are healthy" argument, well have that with PED.

It's not scary, it's just stupid. Government isn't the answer for everything. Freewill and all. If you want to smoke 3 packs a day and then wash them down with a 2 liter of Mountain Dew, that's your right. As is not getting vaccinated. Society just reserves the right to cut you out of participating in certain activities until you do.

That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

In article after article medical professionals who are themselves young talk about how they are now caring for other young people in hospitals and most of those are unvaccinated. Cases are doubling and are now at 20,000 per day. And yet there is denial.

And none of this counts what we don't know about long term consequences.

Just get a shot if you haven't and if you have accept that there was good reason.

They force people to take shots that are FDA approved.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-hasnt-fda...164853572.html

And how many of those young people are dying? The statistics aren't lying. Hospitals aren't overwhelmed. That was the entire point of "flattening the curve". We have vaccines and therapeutics and fortunately, our most vulnerable are getting the jab!

The restrictions on that are properly getting tighter. In many of those states "personal belief" no longer works and even religion doesn't in some if you are not a member of an organized religion that has a dogma concerning vaccination which is a very limited number like Christian Science.

Vaccination Rates Rise In California After Personal Belief Exemptions Curbed

The issue about hospitals being overwhelmed was pre-vaccination. Now it's a matter of deaths and serious illness pure and simple as it is with most diseases. The possibility of American hospitals being overhwhelmed was almost unique to covid before there were vaccinations but we still enforce other public health rules concerning diseases that have never overwhelmed the system.

The gov gave us the vaccine, and without that it would be worse. Although, I got ten bucks that says 3 or 4 people disagree.

I know that....am I gonna have to do that with every attempt at "gotcha"? Jesus.

I know that. As I said, they will find other ways to make people do it. The day that the FDA does approve it, only those with religious exemptions can get away with not having it.

I don't think that's true, as of this year the vast majority of states allow for religious and personal belief exemptions. Of course CA and NY are exceptions.

That being said I am pro vaccination personally and believe society should promote most vaccines. Requiring it is scary to me. Glad I don't live in a place the forces it.

They found a way that 58% of marines are vaccinated! That's not much better than the overall public.

Once it's FDA approved 100% will be vaccinated in a matter of days.

Yes, the government did facilitate vaccine but it's still not their place to hold our hands and make people get it. Even China has banned compulsory vaccinations so you're in uncharted territory thinking our government should.

And no such case exists now, or ever, with adult vaccines.

But the anti-vax crowd will claim people are "forcing" such behavior, when there's no such thing. But employers, airlines, universities, and many, many services will require evidence of vax, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in a civilized society.

And I'd argue that requirements for children are borderline force. You cannot enroll your kids in probably 99% of public and private schools absent the standard childhood vax. And many states have strict rules re. home schooling. And it's illegal to not have your kid in formal education in most states, between first grade and age 16. So requiring vaccines is borderline force, because you'd generally be breaking state laws re. kids education by refusing to vax. But I support such requirements 1000%.

But several here have expressed support for just that. No, it doesn't exist now and it doesn't exist for children either...hence the anti-vax lunacy and the jump in childhood diseases.

#antivaxlivesDONTmatter

:D

Just saw a stat that's pretty mind-boggling. San Francisco has roughly the same population as South Dakota, but (as of today) there have been 4 times as many COVID deaths in SD than in SF. In fact, across the board Bay Area counties had fewer deaths than states of equivalent size.

San Francisco (pop. 874K) 559 deaths ---- South Dakota (884K) 2,039 deaths
San Mateo (767K) 583 deaths ---- North Dakota (762K) 1,532 deaths
Santa Clara (1.928M) 1,703 deaths ---- Nebraska (1.934M) 2,262 deaths
Alameda (1.671M) 1,270 deaths ---- Idaho (1.787M) 2,165 deaths
Contra Costa (1.154M) 821 deaths ---- Montana (1.068M) 1,674 deaths
Sonoma (646K) 323 deaths ---- Wyoming (578K) 751 deaths

No doubt. Also remarkable considering the density of these Bay Area counties in comparison to these states, as well as the fact that the Bay Area was one of the first places to get hit by COVID, and thus didn't have the luxury of waiting to respond.

Good case study for urban areas that can get close to that 80% vaccination threshold.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health...tate-laws.aspx

I count 36 that do not have "philosophical" exemptions which I equate with "personal belief" exemptions.

As for religion, you'd have to read the law in each state but can people have their own religion that says there is no God but vaccination is the Devil's work? Very few organized religions actually oppose vaccination so very few people can actually have a valid religious objection that amounts to more than personal belief but whether they can get away with that amounts to a fine point of law.

I also said restrictions are getting tighter: In 2019, for example, Maine and Washington removed personal belief exemptions for a number of school vaccinations. In 2020, Colorado tightened up both religious and personal exemptions and in 2021 Connecticut eliminated religious exemptions.

Given who the people in the military are--young people disproportionately from rural, Southern and midwestern backgrounds--I would normally expect vaccination rates to be very low as long as it was voluntary. 58% is actually remarkably better than I would have guessed (and remember, I was a military doctor for 26 years, 6 of those in a clinic serving a recruit training facility and 2 as a Marine Regimental Surgeon).

Has even one of these children died?

As a reminder, about 150 US children died of Influenza in the 2019 Influenza season. I don't recall camps closing down due to that

I get the sense that doctors and the rational scientific community (sans germaphobes like our in house Howard Hughes wannabe Pedestrian) are growing vocal and more fed up with the media and their obsession over non-events like viral mutation, and their effort to turn each and every variant into a sequel movie to spook the public.

I heard a physician last night on PBS (as far from Conservative media as you're going to get) basically telling the public that if you're vaccinated, you're fine, and to basically chill about the Delta variant.

Of course she's right, but there are a few OCD people whom you can't convince. We just need to take the microphone away from them. Or just stop watching.

I honestly think it's people that have too much time on their hands at this point. I am basically back to living a normal life... Well, new normal in the sense of being a digital nomad, and I love it. It's not healthy to keep worrying about what this virus is doing halfway across the country in another state. The vaccines are working, the technology has proven itself, and Pfizer is already working on boosters.

Get off the computer and go do something fun that involves being around lots of people without masks on. Trust me, it will help you in your mental health.

Ontario, the last bastion of lockdowns in North America, is opening indoor dining this Friday with no capacity limits as long as tables are 6 feet apart. Places that want to be classified as bars or clubs (I think having a dance floor is the key qualifier) can operate at the lesser of 25% capacity or 250 people. Yet they are claiming masks are required in a bar/nightclub :haha:. I can understand putting a mask on as you move through the common areas of a restaurant, perhaps limiting spread of possible droplets to different tables that you pass. If you're letting us all congregate in a nightclub, we are going to be breathing in each others air no matter what makes any overzealous public official feel better.

I'm for sure testing this out on Friday to see if places are actually going to enforce standing around with a drink, taking your mask off, taking a sip, and putting it back on. What a stupid rule.

^ Just what I've been waiting to do with a mask on....dancing in a crowded nightclub

I've seen a vaccination center inside a shopping mall without appointment.
Here it's empty because it's a closing. I imagine it's been busy especially after yesterday's government announcements.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67312d88_c.jpg
4 Temps La Défense, centre de vaccination by Minato ku, sur Flickr

With the development of the delta variant, the loosening of the population and the drop in the number of appointments for vaccination, it was decided that a health pass would be needed for frequenting restaurants, bars, café, shopping malls, cinema theaters, to take trains (urban/suburban public transportation not included), planes and other activities from August.

I wish we'd do that. You don't HAVE TO get vaccinated unless you want a life beyond your home and the outdoors.

This is exactly the stuff that QAnon conspiracy theorists say will happen. "Let me see your papers." You basically would need a passport to leave your house. Some people seem to want to prove these lunatics right.

Honestly, I don't care of what Qanon or other conspirationists may think.
What matters is fighting the virus without closing the economy.
Nobody is barred from being vaccinated. It's free and there are vaccination centres everywhere.

Everybody can do a test and they are avaible everywhere. It's free until October in France.

Where I live, I've never seen so many surprise shortages of various consumer items.

I mean, we all remember the run on toilet paper in the spring of 2020, but since then I've seen multiple instances of more stuff than ever simply not being available.

In the past you'd see that with popular toys around Christmas time (Cabbage Patch Dolls, Star Wars action figures) but nothing on the scale of what I've seen in the past year.

For example, since the start of the summer where I live there has been a shortage of all sorts of pool and spa equipment.

Not just: we're all out but we're getting more later this week.

Rather: we're all out and not sure when we'll be getting more; might not have any before the end of the season.

I don't know if this is due to increased demand due to the pandemic that traditional supply chains didn't account for, or if it's because the pandemic disrupted traditional production in some way.

But it's very noticeable in a bunch of areas.

It's typically just anything recreational that people have been desperately buying up. Golf clubs? Everyone took up golfing when it was the only sport allowed and if you want to order a fitted club you're probably looking at a 3-4 month back order. Boats, Bikes, hell you couldn't even find a dog to adopt around this time last summer.

Canada is now the only country in the G7 with an R-Value less than 1.0 (i.e. cases are still falling between 20 and 30% a week with 4 provinces and territories covid free)
Covid is rapidly being stamped out in Canada

https://i.postimg.cc/gJ0Yhm6Y/corona...xplorer-45.png

:previous: As has been mentioned earlier, 99.7% of cases in the US are now amongst the unvaccinated. If you're fully vaccinated, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not vaccinated, you've made your choice and can deal with the consequences.

If cases are only rising for the unvaxxed, then what exactly is the problem?

Where did i mention anything in my last post about the US