Yes, in 1964, when you could smoke in a hospital, secondhand smoke was a huge issue. How many people get cancer every year from "brief" exposure to smoke? I am sure it is in the single digits.


In any case, I am talking about stupid shit like "smoke-free campuses". Huh, why? Why can't someone smoke a cig in a far corner of campus away from everyone? It makes no sense. And of course you can extend this to vapes too.

^I won't pay restaurant prices for a meal if I have to breathe second hand smoke from tobacco or marijuana.

Here's some more good news for concerned parents: Pfizer has been working with the FDA to allow their vaccine for 12-15 year olds. Pfizer says it is 100% effective.

The 12-15 year old age group already has a nearly 100% survival rate from a Covid infection, so the vaccine should be 100%!!

You guys really need to chill out. You actually think about your risk of exposure if you see someone without a mask on? Really? Do you worry about your risk to your life every time you drive? You have a much more statistical probability of getting killed or maimed in a car accident than dying from covid if you under 80. You could walk down the street and a tree branch could break and kill you. Do you worry about slipping in the bathtub and breaking your neck every time you take a shower? You could die at any second without warning from a stroke or a blood clot to the lungs. Eating too many tasty burgers and fries could lead to obesity and heart failure or diabetes. You could get trapped in your room at night during a house fire, do you worry about all of these things constantly?

For adults, COVID-19 approximately doubles your chances of dying in a year. So yes, it is at least equally dangerous to everything else for normal people (excepting wingsuiters and bear wrestlers).

But again, dying is not the only bad thing that can happen. If I got sick and went to work, the University potentially would shut our lab down for weeks, which would fucking suck.

And you would have that right as a consumer.

First of all, the information I posted is not from 1964. That's when the government first recognized the association between smoking and health. What I posted is current.

But since you asked how many:

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...lity/index.htm

41,000 is quite a bit more than a "handful". Most of these may have longer exposures in workplaces or from living with a smoker than merely dining in restaurants where there are people smoking but even a relatively small percentage of 41,000 per year is more than a "handful" and my previous posting pointed out that even brief exposure can cause a number of physiologic changes.

Of course you are firm in your opinion and don't care about facts so you will not be convinced surely.

I would pay double if they allowed marijuana in restaurants. :yes:

I'm a doctor. Forget driving. You are damned right I thought about the possibility of infection every time I treated an infectious person and it happened at least once (my TB test turned positive).

People who understand infectious disease respect it.

You're mixing up two things I said to make your point stronger.

Those people who are getting cancer etc. from secondhand smoke are most likely LIVING with someone smoking, not someone who eats dinner in the same building as a smoker once. I said single digits as in people who are briefly around smokers, not a kid who is in a van with the windows up and mom chain-smoking.

Ped, you really don't seem to read people's post fully or purposively ignore key parts to make a point.

His point was that you DONT KNOW if someone is infected, and the chances of them being infected are very small.


I would be cautious around someone who had covid, as you would too. You said you were cautious when you were treating an infectious person, that's 100% different than assuming everyone you come into contact with is infected.

That's like me being cautious hanging out with gang members, that makes sense. But me going to a bad neighborhood and ASSUMING everyone is a gang member, that would be stupid.

I'm sure they'll welcome you (just ask to have your bill doubled):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lower-service/

Now there are several more in the LA area: https://www.yelp.com/search?find_des...+Angeles%2C+CA

No, you are correct you don't know and the risk is small but not zero. In parts of the country it's substantially above zero. But as I said--which YOU ignore--is that I am used to dealing with that. Often you don't know somebody's diagnosis but you take precautions based on the worst possibilities. That's what this is all about. You are wanting to assume the BEST.

I look at it from a risk/reward perspective. If I assume somebody's infected and ask them to do 2 simple things--wear a mask in my presence and stay 6 ft away--there not much harm done if I'm wrong. If you assume they aren't and you are wrong, it could mean death by COVID if you aren't vaccinated and even possibly a bit of misery if you are.

“Gangiers” lol. It would be nice to have on-site consumption allowed here in Anchorage though. :D

Risk/reward, exactly.


We risk dying by driving 70 mph on the interstate all the time. We KNOW we would be like 90% safer if we drove 25 mph, but it's not worth it.

If someone doesn't want to wear a mask for 12 months, and a store doesn't make them or they are outside, I don't see the issue? Most people aren't years from their deathbed nor obsess with it, thank God.

Only weird people like their masks. I enjoy them on cold days or days where I look like shit, but most days, I don't want to wear it. Its a MINOR issue, but its annoying and I don't believe the risk is there to warrant me being forced to wear it by seniors like you. Sorry, if you are that scared, you can stay home, I am in the prime of my life.

The marijuana chat was better than this garbage above. ^^^ what is the “prime of your life”?

sure, you probably won't get cancer by going out to eat in a restaurant that has smokers. But the waiters might.

Which states still allow smoking in restaurants?

Still allowed in casinos in Nevada, as far as I know.

The years when you are physically and mentally capable of any activity. In contrast to old age, when at least physical decline limits what you can do.

It’s a little different when you work in a hospital around people who are 100 percent positive for something. People who are obsessed with masks or are in fear seem like they think every single person has rona. My point being, do you think every single time you’re driving that you have a 100% of dying? No you don’t, that would be insane, just like being in fear because someone doesn’t have a mask on will for sure kill you. Reminds me of the people who will see you walking down the sidewalk and because of rona they cross the street. That’s nuts and completely irrational. IE my original point, do people act this way about the myriad of other ways that would have a greater chance of killing most not elderly people? No they don’t. The fear of covid is irrational and completely overblown.

Now, if this were a much much more deadly virus than of course the fear would be rational, but it’s just not to majority of people.

That’s just dumb as most of you’re trolling comments.

ummm...basically someone who isn't afraid of dying from every little thing in life?

True.

There aren’t restaurants that have smoking sections anymore. Please source this.

Is it dumb? There are a set number of years where people are the most healthy and active and they tend to be their younger years. I totally get 20's and 30's becoming restless with the lockdowns and the constant fear when that age bracket is far down the list as the most vulnerable to Covid. If they are vaccinated, even less of a reason why they should continue not living their lives. Their odds of contracting/ spreading Covid are negligible.

Huh? Why do people keep implying I said things that I never said.


Where did I mention that restaurants have smoking sections now?

See, again, people seem to forget about THE WORKERS. Prior to smoking bans at restaurants and indoors at workplaces, workers were exposed to second-hand smoke every work day.

I'm old enough to remember when people were allowed to smoke inside of break rooms. I had to deal with that on my first job when I was 17.

No they won’t. This conversation has turned bad.

The whole reason smoking is banned in workplaces like restaurants is because the employees were getting cancer from second-hand cigarette smoke.

Yes, but workers can still wear masks

I spent the entire last 14 months being within inches of people’s faces, with their masks off (but mine on).

I didn’t need a new law made by a bunch of pandering hacks to protect me. I did my job and.....I and 100% of my colleagues didn’t die! Holy cow, how did that happen?

Nobody needs fake protection from people who don’t really care about them. What they need is a more confident economy that improves job prospects so that they can move up in life, and they aren’t stuck working at a restaurant teetering at bankruptcy.

^

That’s weird. Every hospital and clinic here requires all people, patients and healthcare workers, to wear masks inside the facility.

Do you read? I am not worried about catching covid from some hotel lobby clerk that doesn't wear a mask. I understand the risk of exposure to me from a brief encounter is very low, but if I get a snide comment for wearing one you better believe I will be in your face with something to say back. Nothing pisses me off more than someone being rude to somebody for wearing a mask. You don't need to explain to me what is daily life activities pose a risk and what don't. I don't need your splaining. And guess what on an anecdotal level I did have a relative die suddenly from a stroke that was a result of a blood clot brought on by covid.

I think it is more about the workers who are exposed every single day on their 8 hour shift. I think smoking bans are going too far now but I wouldn't eat in a restaurant or go to a bar that allows smoking. Not because I am afraid of cancer but the cigarette smoke really makes for a shitty experience and is annoying as hell.

I have my patients pull down their masks when I need to examine their nose and mouth

The Texas panhandle, lower Michigan, Minnesota and the NY/NJ/eastern PA area continue to light up like neon signs:

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...169987/enhance
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html

And this is in spite of NJ especially doing very well in getting its population vaccinated with 40% now having had at least 1 shot. I admit I find that disturbing. I would expect to see at least some tamping down effect by now.

What is going on specifically in Michigan?

The state line of MI with OH/Indy is noticeable. That is puzzling, the shading should blend along borders.

I just heard today that the wife of a friend of mine tested positive. She works at a pharmacy clinic, has been fully vaccinated was one of the first in line; tested positive for Covid this week. She had some symptoms, which is an automatic test per company policy, tested positive and recovered in 2-3 days.

Over the last 7 days my former state of Arkansas saw the least amount of new cases per 100k!

Arkansas 5
Illinois 26
Michigan 74

I noticed that too. Very strange.

Could be a testing difference...

Is there a ICU intake rate of the same magnitude along those county lines as well? If that were true, then that would be quite a study to undertake as to why that happened.

38,000 deaths a year (on average) from car accidents in the US.

Over 500,000 deaths from Covid after one year of COVID.

Funny enough, yes I do worry about getting into an accident every time I drive. I’m a pretty paranoid person.

Aren’t you in your mid thirties by now? I hate to break it to you bud, but your next ten years are going to be...

Disappointing.

Not to mention that there are number of other diseases besides cancer that are caused or exacerbated by second-hand smoke: https://www.lung.org/research/sotc/b...condhand-smoke

this is insane. even if YOU might not die from contracting COVID, the more that it spreads the more likely it is that you'll pass it along to somebody who WILL die from it. and even if you don't die, a substantial number of young people who contracted it have had long term health problems, including respiratory and pulmonary problems and mental illness and cognitive dysfunction due to COVID-induced brain swelling.

it's really sad how fucking stupid and selfish about half of Americans are.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I am in incredible shape. But yes, I do think that my next 5-10 years are the ones that I am living for and beyond that my quality of life will decline precipitously.

You have to look at population. The colors are based on cases/100,000. In a very lightly populated county, one or two cases can literally cause them to stand out whereas the county next door may not have any cases or just 1 vs 2 and if it's also lightly populated will have a very different rate/100,000.

For this reason, I don't take this map very seriously in rural regions . . . only in urban areas and cities. So, for example, I think it matters that San Francisco has 4/100,000 whereas Detroit (Wayne County) has 83/100,000.

If you go to the actual link and hover over the county, it shows you the actual number of cases (from which you can calculate population if you want to). But consider that San Francisco and Jefferson County, Arkansas have a similar rate of cases per 100,000 but that means 2.7 average daily cases in Jefferson County but 38 in San Francisco. If Jefferson had one less or one more cases per day, their rate/100,000 would be drastically different. That can certainly happen.

Oh, Lord. If I had a nickel for every person I've seen who unexpectedly had an acute cardiovascular episode or came down with some other serious disease out of the blue when "in incredible shape" I'd be really rich. And similarly, plenty of people find their 50s and 60s the most enjoyable times of their lives. Sometimes even later decades.

You are the least empathetic person I have ever heard speak, I believe. Sh*t happens, man, and predicting the future is for fools. Enjoy life now but don't count on it lasting or meaning anything about how your health will be 10 or 20 years from now. All you can do is try to be healthy and it may work or it may not.