Hopefully the variance fails and they have to landscape it, or just not use it... although it's pretty unused right now, so even if ASU can't call it their own, they could still easily have people park there.

Pretty funny that your HOA was concerned about runoff, considering topography in the area slopes from NE to SW... doesn't water run east to west down Fillmore when it rains? (Away from you guys from the parking lot).

Either way, screw ASU's parking lot.

unless I'm wrong, west to east down fillmore would have it running into their building...? The parking lot is west of his building.

Oops, I meant east to west.

Some of the new buildings around Apache are good, others are terrible. The Barrett Honors college dorms and Hassayampa Academic village are horrific. The height and density is nice but outside of that they look like Stalins wet dream.

The Vista Del Sol apartments are nice though, and whatever the apartments behind the Taco Bell are OK (though theyre a bit too grey for my personal taste) so if we got something like those Id be thrilled.

But I think the area has a decieving pedestrian friendliness. The area along the North side of Apache West of Rural isnt pedestrian friendly at all. Its just that when you have 70K young people who are willing and able to walk, and forced to park far away you end up with pedestrians. If you put those same honors dorms anywhere else in the city there wouldn't be near the same pedestrian activity.

Apparently when they first renovated the building things were really bad. I'm not exactly sure (partially because I have an upper unit) but from what I've been told the street used to flood really bad and the curbs were low so the water just flooded up to the base of the building. There are basement windows below grade and the water would just pour in. The HOA sued the contractors and got them to build 1' walls around each of the basement window coves. They added landscaping and a bunch of other stuff and it pretty much did a good job. Then in like 2004 the city renovated 2nd Ave and added large storm drains and raised the curb height.

What generally happens during a bad rain (that massive hurricane last year was the last time) is that the storm drains back up and the intersection floods with over a foot of water. The water line will come all the way up to the property and even up to those 1ft retaining walls. The problem occurs as a car drives through the intersection creating a wake. That wave pushes a ton of water over the retaining walls and into the window coves which then begin to fill. We were helping neighbors bail water during the storm.

I suppose that any additional runoff from the lots would just amplify that problem. I don't know anything about the topography...looks pretty flat to me. But with the giant storm drains installed on every corner at that intersection, I believe the water is supposed to run toward that intersection. That intersection is significantly lower than say McKinley & 2nd ave or a hundred yards south of Fillmore on 2nd ave.

Depends on which "student housing" you're talking about:

-The Barrett dorms and the Vue at Apache/Rural are in an area where it's never been unsafe to walk anyway (and the Barrett dorms do look like a prison and are of no value to anyone not living inside of them).

-Grigio Metro isn't student housing (I'm sure some live there, but it's ridiculously expensive and marketed towards a wider group).

-Campus Suites (a little further to the east) is on the edge of skid row. It's still partially under construction, but I don't really see it enhancing anything outside of its property line.


Personally, no I haven't noticed any added pedestrian activities to the blighted areas. Zero.

Not that its news to any of us, but here's the republics coverage of the new markets opening:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...arket1029.html

I went by the grocery store today and its quite nice. The interior of the building is absolutely stunningly beautiful. All of the shelves aren't quite full yet, its rather sparse product wise, but Im sure given some time thatll change.

They also had a little pamphlet that talked about their future plans which was to have a 7 day a week indoor-outdoor market like you see in most great cities. I hope someday the entire upside down L shaped lots bounded by Central, 1st, McKinley and Pierce are all part of the outdoor markets space on some sort of dual level structure.

Im taking my Archie and Edith Bunker like grandparents who live in Mesa on their first light rail ride tomorrow to the market and Matts Big Breakfast- wish me luck. Hopefully I can convince them that rail/downtown are safe and nice.

I went to the market the other day on wednesday and the store I thought needed a couple things tweaked and it will be fine. Leaving out the sparsity of product because that will change, there is a 1" step from the store into the coffee space that people are going to trip over. I smell insurance problem. and the "wine bar" is delightfully shittastic.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...nting1104.html

Well this is great news! Downtown is in desperate need of shade and while the economy is in the pooper Im glad to see small infrastructure things like this happening. I only wish we were planting 60 trees per weekend instead of it being rare and such a big deal. Also I find the idea that planting 60 trees is a 'massive' planting to be a bit of an overstatement there Republic.

Awesome! Will they also include proper watering systems?

Dunno whats in the article is all I know. Did the ones they installed on 5/6th St recently not have proper watering systems or something?

Speaking of those trees, they are looking nice, but can't the artsy types fucking clean up their planter strips? The dirt around some of the trees is still all dug up and messy, its so dusty and ugly down there still. Youd think visually inclined people like artists would want to put grass or something in those strips and make them look nice, plus it would help their business on non First Fridays by making it more welcoming. Its weird that they all leave their yards in such horrid condition.

Grass is for conformists.

Can't have enough trees in Phx...the shade is like a mini oasis during the summer months.

Speaking of trees in DT, whats up with those bottle trees in the middle of the sidewalk around the Hyatt? That couldn't look worse, looks like a 5th grader designed that.

Hey! Don't put 5th graders down. They could design better than the Hyatt.

I agree. That area is such a waste and could be a fine space for a shaded cafe.

I think ASU really screwed up with the honor's college and Hassayampa dorms. I don't even care that the rest of the building is butt ugly or that it's largely gated off so you can't cut through there, but the lack of any ground level retail is really inexcusable. Vista Del Sol has a good amount of ground level retail out front and Apache is a much calmer street through there with the parking lane, median, and plenty of lights. Had ASU put ground level retail on both the north and south side of Apache (instead of just the south side) that area of Apache could have really been in a great position to be pedestrian friendly. Not to mention that the Vista Del Sol retail would have been a lot less cut off seeming and a lot more desireable if it had a counterpart on the north side of the street. Obviously, Apache through there is never going to be Mill Ave... unless ASU decides to let bars get built in its dorms... but it still could have been a fun little walkable, shopping street.

On the same subject, wtf is with that little postage stamp park at Rural and Apache? Because of the trees and the way the sidewalks or oriented it's completely cut off from the street, and because of the gates it's completely cut off from the rest of the honor's college complex. They should have either fenced it off completely so it's at least accessible from the honor's college complex, or found a significantly better way to integrate it into/make it more easily accessible from the street. As it stands now it's so innaccessible and probably going to see so little traffic that it's just going to become hobo central. It's so bad that it's worse than if the honor's college complex had just made absolutely no effort and just continued the building all the way to the corner.

Why the hell they haven't planted trees for years downtown, I have no idea.
Could you imagine how it would look and how more inviting it would be had they planted 25-30 years ago? Same applies to Encanto Park and the Phoenix Zoo. You can never go wrong planting more trees.

Agreed 100%. At the Phoenix General plan meeting on Monday they asked us to come with ideas about what Phx can be in 2050 and how we can get it there. Im going to suggest the city undertake a public/private initiative to plant 50,000 trees a year (that would give us about 2 million by 2050) to help reduce the heat island, improve air quality, beautify the city and provide shade which leads to more walking, less heat stroke, etc.

Will see if that idea goes over well or not, Im sure some rube will say "We don't have enough water."

Yeah we need more trees dt, actually I should say, we need more GOOD trees dt. How about ones that provide dense shade? Ones that actually provide relief to the pedestrians from the hot sun? Ones that actually cool off their surroundings overnight through transpiration?

We don't need mesquites, bottle trees, shoe string acacia etc...

Shade trees are good, but how many desert trees are good shade trees? I'll be the "some rube:" there are better uses for our limited water than 2 million non-native trees.

I agree that a lot of our city is unnecessarily barren of any plant life, but the solution to that is to plant millions of native plants. People on this board talk about Phoenix being bland and needing more unique architecture, landmarks, etc., but what makes Phoenix more unique than its plantlife? Show me any other major city in the world where saguaros grow. I know they don't provide any shade, but if you're trying to make something unique and memorable about Phoenix, there should be a saguaro at every street intersection, at least in copper square (is that even an officially used term any more?). It is possible to beautify Phoenix with loads of trees and plantlife, and its a great idea, but they need to be desert plants.

Oh, and transpiration involves two parts. It cools the air temperature, yes, but it also, by definition, raises the humidity levels around the tree. Slightly for one tree, but compounded over millions of trees and you could seriously jack the humidity in the valley, or at least the areas where they are densely planted. Not only are these trees going to guzzle water (the water for the transpiration has to come from somewhere... desert trees tend to have waxy leaves that limit transpiration), but they're going to be raising the humidity levels of the valley. I've lived in humid cities, and I can tell you that I will take a 120 degree day with 9% humidity any day over a 90 degree day with 100% humidity.

Way over my head, but all I want is trees, whether they be desert or not just gives us shade. If it's more appropriate to make them desert trees so be it, just start planting the damm things already.