Hmm..why a farmers market at Luhrs? Seems kind of a random spot to choose.

Spent some time around Dt Phx tonight. Quite a few large groups walking around at 8pm. I could tell they were bored as most everything was closed up. It looks horrible at night. Washington St between between the convention center and Cityscape in front of those clubs is the worst stretch- Dark and uninteresting to say the least. Every business along the north side of the road between 2nd and 3rd st was closed up and black. The sidewalk was even pitch black. So disappointing for a downtown in a city the size of Phx. I sure hope downtown businesses will stay open later, but then again the ones that were open were absolutely dead. I think a nice locally owned coffee/sandwich shop type would be nice. Potbelly's could be really good for Cityscape, I only wish they were moving into a space like First Watch on the corner. It would be more visible and would liven up the area with some nightime activity and they often have live local artists that play guitar. Cityscape buries everything inside a giant cement box. Did Sam Fox ever do anything interesting with Chloe's Corner? Last time I was there after they took over from Oakville, it was quite disapppointing and very dead. A big open space with nothing inside, boring. Interesting enough, none of the groups walking around were in the concrete palace we call Cityscape. What a disappointing development. It could have been so much more and where is the landscaping and art? What a lackluster development Red has created. The entrance to Hotel Palomar is so small and could barely be seen from the street since most of the frontage of the building is a big hole for the entrance to parking garage and loading dock. It would be great to see Luhrs move ahead with their hotel they announced, but they have been talking about this forever and their retail space sits mostly empty and has for a year now. This brings me to a question, why are so many on this board pressing for developers to include more retail and restaurants on the lower levels when the existing space out there is mostly vacant? Look at all the vacant unrented space- Luhrs Development, Collier Development (restaurants and stores closed above Planet Hollywood) and the storefronts along Alta Lofts. We have plenty of open retail, no one wants to rent it. I would welcome anyone who has more to say on this. By the way, I drove by 3rd Ave and Van Buren to look at the open lot and the area around it, there is no way the Golub development could hurt the property around it. Have you looked at it lately, it is atrocious and quite embarassing to say the least. They are taking a huge risk developing over in that area of downtown. There is nothing going on west of Central except Jails, City and County offices and more Jails. It is dark, desolet and depressing over there.

One more point about my trip downtown. They can put up 500 billboards and APS advertisements, but that doesn't make a downtown. It looks like crap. I cannot believe they are going to allow cityscape to put those ugly corner digital billboards on top of their development and pointing where? South down a southbound one way street!!??? What sense does that make. They need some help over there at Cityscape and at Phoenix Planning and Zoning.

Cartel is moving into the old First Watch space. It is, in your words, "a nice locally owned coffee/sandwich shop" and too cool for CityScape.

Reguy cliff notes on that incoherent rambling?

Reguru, just across van buren on 2nd ave is the crescent ballroom. That place always seems busy.

The main reason to push for good design and mixed uses/retail is maybe not for the present, but the future. Imagine if the entire downtown was built like golub's development, office and parking garages. It would never ever have a chance to be interesting and lively (as you decry Phoenix isn't currently).

Btw, yesterday was Tuesday.

Yes, I passed Crescent Ballroom and they were the only place in DT that seemed to have any business.

Great news. I was not aware, but am looking forward to seeing it open.

Wow, reguru, at only 15 posts, you sure have made quite the impression.

I have been watching from afar so to speak. I'm not concerned with making an impression, more of making a difference which is what I intend to do.

Is this a French term?

While I agree about the new signage atop CityScape, the sign facing south is actually facing southwest and will grab the attention of drivers coming in on Jefferson from I-17

It would look like, well, what we have now! I agree, the reason for retail space is not for right now, but for the future. The more options there are for restaurants and bars, and when there are finally grocery stores and other essentials downtown, the more likely that the dark desolate scene will disappear.
Downtown is not going to be perfect over a couple of years, it will take time, that is why we must demand that the new things that are coming in are a step in the right direction. Personally, I don't even think that the Gollub proposal for 200 W Monroe is well designed. We need better looking buildings that facilitate urban interaction.

wasnt PF Changs and AJ fine food supposed to be downtown? pipe dreams from several yrs ago?

Both were slated for CityScape. PF Changs just never showed up to the party and mysteriously disappeared into the night. AJ's bowed out because Bashas filed for bankruptcy.

*Here's an email I just sent to the AZ Republic on downtown and Scottsdale..sorry we are behind schedule as usual!
As far as downtown goes, we had a few changes of plan. The T-shirt
shop that was next door to us closed, so we took that space as well.
This makes the street level of the restaurant more accessible to those
who don't care for the darker atmosphere of the basement, or have
problems with the stairs.
As for an expected opening date, I'm hoping for around February, we
still have a lot of work to do and would like to open Scottsdale
first, (hoping on December/January) the reason we wish Scottsdale
first is based on all the feedback we've been getting on downtown's
lunch promising to be really busy. This being the case it will demand
even more attention from us when we first open to iron out any kinks.
We are going to offer a limited "rotating" menu of pasties hot and
ready to go from our street side counter, along with our salads, sides
and soups. This is going to be new to us and will take a little more
organizing to make sure all the to go food is as fresh as possible. We
are still going to have the full menu for dine in, and also those not
in a rush can still take the full menu as a pick up or to go. But we
feel that with the foot traffic of downtown we can run the walk up
window similar to the way I used to buy my pasties in the U.*

Found this on their facebook page.

On who's Facebook page? I have no idea what that is referring to.

^ Cornish Pasty Co.

Oops, yeah Cornish Pantry's page.