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food for thought for the weekend --- a better, cheaper gateway?

A better way to connect N.Y. & N.J.: Why spend $25 billion on Gateway when we can do the job for closer to $6 billion?

Now’s the time for New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy, who took the oath of office this week, to take a fresh look at NJTransit’s Hudson tunnel project — known as Gateway — and advance a more sensible plan that would make better use of existing state-owned assets.

more:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/b...icle-1.3765025

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8052352)

...I wonder how much lost productivity is wiped out from employees being late to traffic or apocalyptic transit delays. I'd be curious to see one that measures it in hours or even better, dollar value for 2017.

$20 billion per year for the whole metro area, could be $100 billion by 2023, subway delays are $850,000 per day.

PDF from Cuomo's FixNYC i.e. congestion pricing plan has been released. Worth a quick read, as much as I hate Cuomo, outside of the congestion pricing there are some genuinely good ideas in it.

a blurb --

NYC congestion pricing: What you need to know

What is congestion pricing?

It is a fee charged to drivers traveling in highly congested areas during the times of day when traffic is at its heaviest to help reduce gridlock.

Enacting congestion pricing for some of Manhattan’s high-traffic neighborhoods has been a point of debate for at least the past decade. Now, the concept is seeing a revival.

more:

https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-con...ing-1.16243462

I don’t know what kind of alignment gets a tunnel from Hoboken Terminal to Penn Station. If you wanna do that, realistically, you’d have to cross the river at something of a slant and build a north-south tunnel under 9th Ave or 10th Ave. But there would still need to be a 90-degree turn (below private property) right in the middle of the Hudson Yards skyscraper zone. I dunno how you build that without running into a forest of building foundations.

Would it be even possible to do a tunnel that literally ran north up the center of the Hudson River before turning east for a Penn Station approach? Might be cheaper than dealing with litigious neighbors on land, but a good regional rail system should actually have a stop in Chelsea instead of bypassing it with a long underwater segment.

A Collection of old Subway Announcements done by a local train buff

ᴴᴰ R160 - Original Brown M Train Announcement to Bay Parkway - From Metropolitan Avenue

• Video Link

ᴴᴰ R160 - Original Brown M Train Announcement to Coney Island - Via West End / D LIne

• Video Link

ᴴᴰ R142 - Original 9 Skip Stop Train Announcements to 242 Street - From South Ferry

• Video Link

ᴴᴰ R160 - Original V Train to 2 Avenue via 8th Avenue Line Announcements from Forest Hills / 71 Ave

• Video Link

MTA plans wonky routes for D and 4 trains, and more weekend service updates

Quote:

This weekend, 1, G, Q, and L riders are in luck: trains will operate as usual (so, expect issues, but no scheduled ones). All other straphangers, especially those on the D and 4 trains: brace for service changes. Prepare both mind and schedules by debriefing with the below:

Broad St-bound J trains skip Flushing Av, Lorimer St, and Hewes St. The Manhattan-bound platform at 104 St is closed for renovation.

Astoria-bound W trains skip 39 Av and Broadway.

Bay Ridge-bound R trains run express from 71 Av to Queens Plaza, stopping at Roosevelt Av and skipping 67 Av, 63 Dr, Woodhaven Blvd, Grand and Elmhurst Ave, 65 St, Northern Blvd, 46, Steinway, and 36 Sts.

Coney Island-Bound N train platforms at Fort Hamilton Pkwy, New Utrecht Av, 18 Av, 20 Av, Kings Hwy, Avenue U and 86 are closed for renovation through the fall. N and W trains skip 30 Av and 36 Av at all times through the spring. Astoria-bound N trains skip 39 Av and Broadway.

M train service ends early between 71 Av and Essex St, with no M train service between Essex St and Broadway Junction or between Myrtle-Wyckoff Av and Myrtle Av (Broadway). Shuttle trains run every 20 minutes between Metropolitan Av and Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs.

Manhattan-bound F trains skip Sutphin Blvd, Briarwood and 75 Av. There will be no trains between Church Av and Stillwell Av. Free shuttle buses provide alternate service.

D service operates in two sections and is rerouted in Manhattan, with no D service at 7 Av, 47-50 Sts, 42 St-Bryant Pk, 34 St-Herald Sq, Grand St, and Dekalb Av. D service operates between 1) 205 St and B’way-Lafayette St, and via the F to and from 2 Av, the last stop. Trains run via the A local in both directions between 125 St and W 4 St. 2) Between Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr and Stillwell Av. Trains skip Union St, 4 Av-9 St, Prospect Av and 25 St in both directions. Buses operate between W 4 St and Grand St, stopping at B-way-Lafayette St. Norwood-bound trains skip 170 St and 174-175 Sts and stop at 135 St.

World Trade Center-bound E trains run express from 71 Av to Queens Plaza, skipping 67 Av, 63 Dr, Woodhaven Blvd, Grand and Elmhurst Ave, 65 St, Northern Blvd, 46, Steinway, and 36 Sts.

C trains skip 50 St, 23 St, and Spring St in both directions. Euclid Av-bound trains skip 163, 155, 135, 116, 110, 103, 96, 86, 81, and 72 Sts.

A trains skip 50 St, 23 St, and Spring St in both directions. Inwood-bound A trains run local from 59 St-Columbus Circle to 168 St. Ozone Park/Far Rockaway-bound trains skip 163, 155, 135, 116, 110, 103, 96, 86, 81 and 72 Sts.

Hudson Yards-bound 7 trains skip 69, 52, 46, 40, and 33 Sts.

No 2 trains between E 180 St and Dyre Av. Free shuttle buses and 5 trains provide alternate service. Wakefield-bound trains run express from E 180 St to 241 St, skipping Bronx Park East, Pelham Pkwy, Allerton, Burke Ave, 219, 225, 233 Sts, and Nereid Av.

No 5 trains between 241 St and Grand Central-42 St.

4 train service operates in two sections. 1) Between Woodlawn and 125 St and 2) Between 125 St and New Lots Av. Woodlawn-bound 4 trains skip 138 St-Grand Concourse.

Until the summer, there will be no 2 or 3 train service between Brooklyn and Manhattan.

==========================
6SQFT

New York Set to Acquire the Next Generation of Subway Cars

https://nytimes.com/2018/01/19/nyreg...portation.html

Quote:

.....

- The agency that runs New York City’s troubled subway said on Friday that it plans to spend close to $4 billion to buy over a thousand new train cars to modernize an aging fleet, a major investment meant to help remedy the delays and breakdowns that plague the system. — New York will also join other cities around the world in deploying trains with open pathways between cars that can squeeze in more riders at a time when the subway struggles under the burden of accommodating nearly six million riders every day.

- The first cars, which will be manufactured under a contract between the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the Japanese company, Kawasaki, are scheduled to be delivered in July 2020. — The authority has committed about $1.45 billion to buy over 500 cars with an agreement to take steps to purchase more if the initial group performs well, for a total of 1,612 cars. The contract could ultimately pay Kawasaki more than $3.7 billion with the financing being provided by the federal Transit Administration.

.....

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018...=100&auto=webp

^ nice enough.

now if only they could get them to run on time without disruptions.

today it was 'unauthorized person on the tracks.'

i guess there is nothing you can do about that one, but still everyday lately its something -- ugh.

The city will not go after farebeaters anymore:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/01/cops-w...umpers-source/

Why would anyone pay anymore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 8066395)

Especially along Lexington Avenue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antinimby (Post 8070781)

The city will not go after farebeaters anymore:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/01/cops-w...umpers-source/

Why would anyone pay anymore?

This is insane.

Its not a total loss. The time, money, and resources could be better used for other things... not on wasting time with someone jumping the turn-style.

The article is alarmist in nature. This is not the end and it will not cause a public disorder epidemic.

The POST alarmist? Reactionary? No! Never!

speaking of the post and the newspapers, the new owners of the daily news aka the people’s newspaper are going to start charging next month for viewing the paper online. you will get 10 free visits to the website per month, just like nytimes does, unless you do the paid subscription.

Or you could just pull one out of the trash can on the street or the seat on the subway for free

Another blow to Gateway, project rating downgraded to "Medium-Low" by the FTA.

I think NYS, NJ, and NYC need to come to terms with the idea that the Feds are simply not going to fund this until there's a Dem in the WH, and this project might unfortunately have to be built in phases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 8085293)

I would not take a bet that the North River tunnels can make it 3-7 years for that to happen. They're going to have to be shut down for rehabs and the only question is when do they become unserviceable or too risky to utilize. I think we're a lot closer than anybody wants to admit.

The 2 year long termination of all NJT rail service into Manhattan is going to be amazing. Perhaps fate will let it coincide with the total shit show the coming L shutdown is fated to become.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8085316)

How about finding a cheaper solution short term? Instead of building two new tunnels and refurbishing the two existing tunnels later - let's build one of the new tunnels now, refurbishing one existng tunnel later, then the second exisitng tunnel after that. Then one could debate whether building the second new tunnel is even needed, or when it should be built. That alone should reduce the immediate short term costs in half - from $15 Billion to $8 Billion. Note: the dollar amounts I used above are just examples pulled out of thin air for argument purposes, not based on any real numbers. Although I will still insist building one new tunnel should be significantly cheaper than building two new tunnels with the amount saved in the short term over Billions of dollars, possibly in double digits.

With three tunnels in service after the refurbishing has been completed, there will be a 50% increase in capacity. Do we even need a 100% increase in capacity in the short term?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 8085469)

I think I had proposed this a while back. One single track relief tunnel that will let the existing tubes be taken out of service in turn for rehab seems like the minimum cost option. I'd put one guy in charge of it who has ultimate authority and gives no f's about the politics. Do design-build, put the CM at risk, benchmark to euro staffing levels, forbid consultants, and require 24 hour turnaround on change orders by the dude in charge with hard $ limits on anything not life safety. Do it fast, cheap, and bare bones.

The extra capacity afforded when all tunnels are complete can't even be utilized since Penn is so constrained. The shitty concourse design because of MSG/2 Penn limits how fast you can move people on/off the narrow platforms.

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