There should be a Clinton St. subway I agree but the idea that there shouldn't be a light rail I think is just wrong. I think there is enough room and (relatively light) traffic doesn't make prohibitive the idea of street rail in the West Loop, South Loop, or River North. Traffic in downtown Chicago really isn't that bad compared to other major cities I've gone to. In fact I would argue a bit of induced congestion wouldn't be an all out bad thing.

If light rail is good enough for the likes of Paris, Berlin, and Toronto it can probably work for Chicago.

I'm torn on if I would like to see the SCAL one day become a transit corridor that it is set up perfectly for or to see it as an awesome (and I think potentially more impressive) pedestrian walkway (high line, Bloomingdale Line) connecting the Loop to the lake front.

The Loop is better connected already to the lakefront than the SCAL will ever be. It should be reserved exclusively for rail to access that gloriously wide and electrified IC row which we will be needing in the coming years.

I haven't been to Berlin, but light rail in central Toronto is a joke, and I'm not aware of any light rail in the central part of Paris - it's primarily a suburban system there, with a few lines running along the edge of the central area.

Even in Portland, the majority of where MAX runs is isolated from traffic, and where the streetcars run in traffic they are much slower than buses, and often slower than walking - that sort of service level would not be tolerable in Chicago.

I'd agree that unless the trams/light rail had their own ROW clearance on the streets then it would be wiser to do BRT or nothing at all.

That's a problem solved circa 1890, with something called a trap (short for trapdoor). The vestibule steps are covered with a hinged plate that is raised for ground-level boarding and lowered for high platform boarding. Most Amtrak cars have them, and the South Shore line uses them locally.

I agree. I work in Portland once a month and the light rail system downtown is awful. I tried it twice, but now I just walk.

Yeah, but the vestibules on Amtrak and South Shore cars are tiny. I guess the design could be adapted for wider vestibules, though, and the small vestibules are usually paired up with another one on the adjacent car.

And it begins.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...,632237.column
Experts expected to steer Lake Shore Drive away from being a superhighway
Jon Hilkevitch: Getting Around
July 29, 2013

A long-planned transformation of North Lake Shore Drive is entering a new phase, as city and state planners look to cull ideas from the public on how best to serve the tens of thousands who use the crucial roadway every day.

Overhauling the 7-mile stretch likely will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and work probably won't start for at least five years, but such input is expected to help shape the project that aims to balance the thoroughfare's origins in the early 1900s as "a boulevard through a park" and one that will meet the changing needs of those who drive, ride, walk and run along it for years to come.

Public meetings are set to start next week ...

Cool. Putting in a bonafide bus transit system along the Drive is probably the most cost-effective way to improve transit to the North Side. Dedicated stations will make it even better.

I'll definitely put in my comments for large expansive tunnels like in grant park. The tunnels near oak, division, and north are an embarrassment and besides looking rundown and forgotten, harbor crime.

Agreed. Especially the Division Street tunnel -- it looks closer to a sewer tunnel (with decayed walls and ubiquitous spiders added for bonus effect) than anything a law-abiding citizen should be caught in. It's amazing that something transversed by so many international visitors, etc. has been allowed to fall into such repugnant disrepair -- and I guess there's no hope for a prelim fix while we wait 5-10 years for a LSD makeover, right?

^ That was my understanding when I've asked about that kind of thing. No one wants to sink money into an expensive improvement that could be replaced or modified in the next 10 years. That's why the Michigan Ave pedestrian subway was closed instead of attempting to take corrective measures. Eventually something permanent may happen. I've suggested a grand stairway beneath the unused covered terrace of 1000 plaza to get swaths of people beneath the avenue. Another suggestion is to smooth the curve on LSD to create additional beach frontage and a more appropriate sized park at Michigan and Oak. Not sure how the folks on ELSD would like this, but an improved park would be a huge bonus to everyone in the neighborhood.

I used to think that, but now I'm not so sure. Though a dedicated bus lane couldn't hurt, traffic congestion on the Drive itself isn't that much of a problem for the express buses. Getting to and from the Loop itself (via Michigan or Wacker-LaSalle) is time-consuming at one end, and for patrons of a true BRT there'd be the time needed for a walk to the station at the home end. The current system of at-the-door pickups followed by a nonstop run to downtown is probably as fast or faster than a lengthy walk to the BRT stop, then boarding a bus that stops at 10 more BRT stations before it gets downtown.

I think a bus subway under North Michigan Avenue would be a much better expenditure.

^ But what about the places where LSD is right on the park/city border? Between Montrose and Belmont, and North and Randolph, BRT stops on the Drive would be closer for a significant number of people than a walk to the Red Line (or Loop). It'd make it a hell of a lot easier to get to rapid transit from eastern Lakeview and Uptown, as well as Streeterville and Lakeshore East. That seems like a pretty good deal, no? The only issue would be connectivity with other rapid transit lines.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.

But not closer than the current bus stop in front of their door. If you put a BRT station every half-mile, that's an average walk of one-quarter mile for every single patron. It's door-to-door transit time that matters, not how fast you go between stops.

I'd rather see some BRT on major East-West streets before on LSD.

Most of the LSD services get bound up on the ramps, at Chicago, or on Michigan. All of which can be solved more effectively than putting in median BRT on all of North LSD.

I've mentioned this before. It would be such a wonderful thing if the buses on North Michigan Avenue could be moved to a bus subway... something similar to what Seattle created two decades ago (although the buses are tentatively scheduled to be kicked out of that subway sometime within the next 10 years due to expanded Link light rail service needing exclusive use of the subway).

I used to live near Addison & Pine Grove. If I was simply heading down to Michigan Ave to do some shopping, I'd happly take the express bus. But if I was traveling to the loop, I always walked to the Addison red line and took the L downtown to avoid the congestion on North Michigan Avenue.

I'm not really envisioning a ton of LSD bus stations. They would be located not every half-mile, but every mile, and only where LSD runs close to the city or where there is a major recreational destination. To preserve some quick travel times, each station would be a flag stop. The current service patterns would continue, but the nonstop segments would be broken up. Maps on each platform should make the branching service clear to riders.

Chicago
Division
North
Fullerton
Belmont
Irving Park
Montrose
Foster

Stations would not be at the interchanges but a half-block away and co-located with pedestrian underpasses or overpasses.

Is there any kind of tunnel currently below North Michigan?