If that's supposed to be a semi-accurate rendering of the building then those are really tall floors. Look at the size of the pedestrians. Also, the roof of the building appears to go up to about the 8th floor of the building to the left of it. I suspect that this was just a lousy rendering that was quickly thrown together.

That cant possibly be a serious rendering

I see your point, but it says three-story office building. I'm guessing the first floor will be quite tall, but the perspective that it's approximately 8 floors is a matter of an optical illusion. Still rather crapola for such an important parcel.

Yeesh. If you think ~20 ft. for the Fry's, a couple levels of parking above that, and then 3 stories of office above that, that would definitely be disappointing. I wonder if the ad just means there will be 3 stories of "creative space" in addition to other space?? That's the only saving construction I could possibly give to it.

What is the need for another 20-25 story building with high vacancy rates downtown and along the Central Corridor? I'm glad to see a building that is in scale with demand. Having a building there is better than a vacant lot. With a Fry's on the bottom level, it should see much more pedestrian activity and should "interact with street" (I think that's the term urban planners use) a lot more than some superblock like the US Bank Building or Chase. Focus more on pedestrian activity than feeling like you're in some lifeless urban canyon. Downtown Phoenix is much more interesting with people on the street than some highrise building that does nothing but shade the sidewalk.

Every big city's downtown is not full of only high rise buildings...

Most of those non-highrises are either built to scale for the lot size, were built during a crummy economy, or are historic in some fashion when they were built for their time.

For 2016, a 5 story building on a critical block like 23 is stupid.

Similarly stupid is the idea that a 5 story building is better than a vacant lot. That might work for a Rust Belt suburb but for a downtown block in a large growing city that notion is patently absurd. Downtown's vacancies are not that high, and Midtown is vacant because those towers are underparked and obsolete. And yes, you can have a Fry's that puts people on the street on the base of a much larger building, those two are not mutually exclusive...

I'd rather they not build anything at all or maybe leave a residential tower with an open pad for later development than a stub that will be there for decades.

Maybe Phoenix really is a Rust Belt suburb long past its prime if 150,000 square feet is all a developer can muster for a new office...

If they thought they would make money on it they would build more, it's that simple.

I don't get the reference about it being 2016 nor the reference about a five story modern structure being tied to a Rust Belt suburb. The fact is our economy is still weak here when it comes to many white collar jobs. Maybe it's different in SF, but our job growth here is really in the low wage sector. You point to Midtown as being under parked and functionally obsolete. What would make a high rise downtown any different? I work in Midtown and don't feel that my building is under parked or functionally obsolete. My company knocked down some walls and built the space that it needed. Other companies along Central that we work with have done the same. It's not like you walk in these buildings and the layout is the same as when they were built in the 1960s-1980s.

Phoenix is growing, but the professional job growth is not downtown, it's in Deer Valley, Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler, and Gilbert. What point is there to just construct high rise office buildings because the city is growing? If there's no demand, it makes no sense.

It's better for the land to be developed for what is needed now instead of remaining vacant for who knows how many more decades. Downtown needs fewer vacant lots. If they are covered with buildings under 10 floors, so be it. I think most people realize that Phoenix is not in a position to compete with other regional cities for professional jobs. We don't have the large skilled workforce that cities like LA, Denver, or even Salt Lake have. We need to accept that Phoenix overbuilt high rise office buildings in past decades. There is no reason to continue that trend to prove to people that Phoenix is an important city with important people doing important things.

We all know your thoughts but your exaggerations are borderline trolling.

I usually agree with "the market" in most cases but in this location I think the city should use some muscle, if the only thing that can pencil on this lot is 3 stories then they shouldn't approve it. Id rather leave it as an event plaza (something that actually works pretty well now) than a building that should be in Gilbert town center.

The vacancy rates downtown are sub 20% with high demand for both housing and office. More than three stories can pencil, red is not infallible.

Guys, I'm in commercial real estate. A Class A office building with huge floorplates and contiguous space would kill in this location. That's why a lot of larger companies can't go downtown because there isn't enough big space. To say that the vacancy rate is already high downtown is technically true (although lower than the overall Valley), Class A space downtown is in high demand. A three story building in this location is ludicrous.

Update on Forno 301, the Italian restaurant on the southwest corner of 3rd Ave & Roosevelt. I ate there today and asked one of the partners in the restaurant for the latest update. You may recall a few months ago that rumors started to circulate that this one-story building would be torn down to make way for a new apartment project. Apparently, they have until the end of the year to move out, but plan to relocate if possible during the slow summer. No new location to announce yet. When I asked about ground floor locations in new buildings like Union, the response was that those buildings want "Monte Carlo prices" (his words).

I see no exaggerations in his/her thoughts. If there's no demand, there's no demand.

You're trying to make it too complicated.

This would be an amazing project in downtown Phoenix if it were at 1st and Fillmore or 4th and McKinley, but it's totally wasted on block 23. Nobody lives there, and even if most of the current projects in this cycle get built, the number of residents within 5-6 blocks in any direction will number less than 1,000. Sure, it's on the LRT, but I just don't see anybody living off Roosevelt and points northward coming down there. I could see people from the neighborhoods to the south using it. In the end, it'll be another auto-oriented destination in the city that is sorely lacking in the non-auto destination type developments.

If that's all RED can get off the ground at that site, the market in Phoenix is softer than I thought.


http://pdf.leeazmail.com/pdfs/Block%2023.jpg

There are many buildings like this in SF (near the FiDi) and ironically....they are filled with tech companies!!! So I see them attempting to emulate those successes. They've done their due diligence. Many tech companies avoid high rises, want aesthetics that are a mix of old and new, and demand high ceilings so they can do trendy things like raised floors/ mezzanines/ etc. So I am down. And no one here calls it Gilbert Town Center.....

I do :cool:

We've covered ad nauseam the white collar and tech companies moving or expanding downtown. And can't compete with salt lake city? Really? He's obviously been a troll/contrarian since being here, his user name is even a poke at this forum. having a different opinion is fine, and I agree with things he says sometimes, but obvious exaggerations for the sake of annoyance is stupid. Why even bother posting here.

Adams street
 

http://dtphx.org/2016/02/26/renaissa...0m-investment/

What ever happened to this project that was suppose to start construction this month?...