SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   New York City - Transit News (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154524)

dchan May 29, 2024 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 10212003)
Unlimited rides are being phased out in favor of the OMNY, and many paying passengers have already moved away from Unlimiteds.

Here's my theory of what's going on. Unlimited cards were a sunk cost. People with unlimited cards were generous in helping others evade the fare by swiping them into the subway system as they exited. If you rode the subway anytime prior to 2020, you saw people at turnstiles asking for swipes on a daily basis.

But with the fare structure change under OMNY, there are fewer unlimited cards floating around and people are far less willing to pay an extra fare for others (I can count on one hand how many times I've been asked to do that in the past two years). This was true even before the introduction of OMNY, as people with cash MetroCards were not likely to give away swipes, but people with unlimited MetroCards were often willing to give them away. The MTA couldn't complain about fare evaders borrowing swipes before, because who is the MTA to tell me that I can't donate swipes to other people? So they just got rid of it and converted many of those swipe borrowers into "fare evaders".

Sorry, I don't buy this theory at all:

1. Each swipe only allows one person in at a time. If there were as many freeloaders pre-pandemic as you imply, you would have seen a horde of people at the turnstiles asking for swipes before. But you didn't because most riders knew the time spent for a chance (not even a guarantee) to get swiped in wasn't worth it.

2. I'm not sure how what percentage of commuters had unlimited cards pre-pandemic, but I doubt most unlimited cardholders were generous in swiping people in. Do you really think New Yorkers who paid a hard-earned $127 a month are going to be kind enough to swipe in freeloaders en-masse? Get outta here.

Whereas nowadays, instead of a few individuals hoping to get swiped in one-by-one, you have hordes of people waiting at the gate. And there is always someone who opens the gate as they exit. There really is no comparison.

Let's face it: people are sheep. Pre-pandemic, they never entered through the gate because it was frowned upon in society, so most other people never did it. But freeloading rides has been acceptable post-pandemic (on bus and subway), so people who would have never done it before are now emboldened because so many other people are entering for free.

The only time I'd open a gate for a freeloader is so I don't get targeted by that freeloader later on after someone else inevitably opens the gate for them.

BK1985 May 29, 2024 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 10212003)
Unlimited rides are being phased out in favor of the OMNY, and many paying passengers have already moved away from Unlimiteds.

Here's my theory of what's going on. Unlimited cards were a sunk cost. People with unlimited cards were generous in helping others evade the fare by swiping them into the subway system as they exited. If you rode the subway anytime prior to 2020, you saw people at turnstiles asking for swipes on a daily basis.

But with the fare structure change under OMNY, there are fewer unlimited cards floating around and people are far less willing to pay an extra fare for others (I can count on one hand how many times I've been asked to do that in the past two years). This was true even before the introduction of OMNY, as people with cash MetroCards were not likely to give away swipes, but people with unlimited MetroCards were often willing to give them away. The MTA couldn't complain about fare evaders borrowing swipes before, because who is the MTA to tell me that I can't donate swipes to other people? So they just got rid of it and converted many of those swipe borrowers into "fare evaders".


OMNY has the "Unlimited" baked in if you exceed 12 rides ( I think that's the number) in a week.

I also don't know where you're getting people don't buy it anymore because of OMNY, I don't buy the unlimited anymore because I only go to the office 3 days a week so the math doesn't work out for me. I would believe that's the case more than your theory.

Also, Swiping someone in as you exited isnt necessarily helping anyone "evade" the fair. If i paid for a unlimited service, and i chose to help someone who couldnt afford it or didnt want to pay out of pocket then thats my business.

Crawford May 29, 2024 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK1985 (Post 10214332)
Also, Swiping someone in as you exited isnt necessarily helping anyone "evade" the fair. If i paid for a unlimited service, and i chose to help someone who couldnt afford it or didnt want to pay out of pocket then thats my business.

Not really. That would be theft of services. The agreement that gives you an unlimited Metrocard or OMNY does not give you the right to confer trips on other users.

MTA is almost certainly moving to a system of random checks, as you see in most of the world. So I don't think this is a long-term issue. Once you get a $200 fine for not paying fare, farebeating will drop much further. Also, the open "emergency" gates are being phased out and the new turnstiles are much harder to evade. At some point, it isn't worth it.

BK1985 May 29, 2024 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 10214395)
Not really. That would be theft of services. The agreement that gives you an unlimited Metrocard or OMNY does not give you the right to confer trips on other users.

MTA is almost certainly moving to a system of random checks, as you see in most of the world. So I don't think this is a long-term issue. Once you get a $200 fine for not paying fare, farebeating will drop much further. Also, the open "emergency" gates are being phased out and the new turnstiles are much harder to evade. At some point, it isn't worth it.

I feel like thats if you are accepting money for a swipe, but i digress

streetscaper May 30, 2024 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchan (Post 10214125)
Sorry, I don't buy this theory at all:

1. Each swipe only allows one person in at a time. If there were as many freeloaders pre-pandemic as you imply, you would have seen a horde of people at the turnstiles asking for swipes before. But you didn't because most riders knew the time spent for a chance (not even a guarantee) to get swiped in wasn't worth it.

2. I'm not sure how what percentage of commuters had unlimited cards pre-pandemic, but I doubt most unlimited cardholders were generous in swiping people in. Do you really think New Yorkers who paid a hard-earned $127 a month are going to be kind enough to swipe in freeloaders en-masse? Get outta here.

Whereas nowadays, instead of a few individuals hoping to get swiped in one-by-one, you have hordes of people waiting at the gate. And there is always someone who opens the gate as they exit. There really is no comparison.

Let's face it: people are sheep. Pre-pandemic, they never entered through the gate because it was frowned upon in society, so most other people never did it. But freeloading rides has been acceptable post-pandemic (on bus and subway), so people who would have never done it before are now emboldened because so many other people are entering for free.

The only time I'd open a gate for a freeloader is so I don't get targeted by that freeloader later on after someone else inevitably opens the gate for them.

I agree with this

mrnyc May 30, 2024 11:31 AM

take a brief ride on the old sixth avenue elevated 1916 —
at least i think it’s the 6av el —


https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7jND...QwYTgyZHRiZw==

iheartthed May 30, 2024 3:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchan (Post 10214125)
Sorry, I don't buy this theory at all:

1. Each swipe only allows one person in at a time. If there were as many freeloaders pre-pandemic as you imply, you would have seen a horde of people at the turnstiles asking for swipes before. But you didn't because most riders knew the time spent for a chance (not even a guarantee) to get swiped in wasn't worth it.

2. I'm not sure how what percentage of commuters had unlimited cards pre-pandemic, but I doubt most unlimited cardholders were generous in swiping people in. Do you really think New Yorkers who paid a hard-earned $127 a month are going to be kind enough to swipe in freeloaders en-masse? Get outta here.

I encountered people at the turnstile requesting swipes into the system multiple times per week, if not virtually every day prior to the pandemic. I almost always gave them a swipe if they asked me. I would not swipe anyone in under the OMNY system.

iheartthed May 30, 2024 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK1985 (Post 10214332)
OMNY has the "Unlimited" baked in if you exceed 12 rides ( I think that's the number) in a week.

Yes, but it's no longer a sunk cost. With an unlimited, a ride was a ride no matter how many times you used it. With the OMNY system rides aren't free until you get to 12 rides. Even if you are keeping track of your rides, you aren't likely to donate them until you know you're past your 12th ride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK1985 (Post 10214332)
I also don't know where you're getting people don't buy it anymore because of OMNY, I don't buy the unlimited anymore because I only go to the office 3 days a week so the math doesn't work out for me. I would believe that's the case more than your theory.

Probably. But MetroCards are likely gone for good some time this year. They were supposed to have been phased out already.

dchan May 30, 2024 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 10215019)
I encountered people at the turnstile requesting swipes into the system multiple times per week, if not virtually every day prior to the pandemic. I almost always gave them a swipe if they asked me. I would not swipe anyone in under the OMNY system.

I never said there weren't people waiting for swipes from generous strangers pre-pandemic. Rather, I said that they weren't waiting there in the same numbers as freeloaders wait at the gates nowadays.

I also saw people waiting for swipes pre-2020, but it would be maybe 1-5 people at any one time. Nowadays, once a gate opens, freeloaders can enter en-masse before the gate closes again (which it sometimes doesn't).

Before, the only people who dared to regularly go through the gate were the homeless, some "out there" individuals, and the occasional cheapskate. Nowadays, you have teenagers, grannies, and working folks going in for free without shame because "everyone else does it".

This level of fare evasion is on a completely different magnitude than the one-at-a-time pre-pandemic swipes. You have to be totally dense to not see it as such.

mrnyc May 30, 2024 6:07 PM

^ there definitely are a lot more people at the exit gates waiting to bum rush in for free and also more hopping the turnstiles then pre-pandemic, but from what i see those combined pale to whats going on with the busses. like i said noooo-body in staten pays and its fitty-fitty if they do or don’t in manhattan. no one cares and there is zero enforcement at least that i’ve ever seen — its insanity and the mta is taking a huge loss at the farebox.

BK1985 May 30, 2024 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 10215140)
^ there definitely are a lot more people at the exit gates waiting to bum rush in for free and also more hopping the turnstiles then pre-pandemic, but from what i see those combined pale to whats going on with the busses. like i said noooo-body in staten pays and its fitty-fitty if they do or don’t in manhattan. no one cares and there is zero enforcement at least that i’ve ever seen — its insanity and the mta is taking a huge loss at the farebox.

I literally just got off the train and there was an older woman that pushed through the side gate as soon as someone opened it. I walk through the station and the station attendant was fast asleep in the booth so yes people will take advantage of it. The MTA needs to step up enforcement more than anything.

mrnyc May 30, 2024 6:25 PM

where the #*%& is the ibx?


https://www.instagram.com/p/C7emJbGs...VpcW9vdThmbzJj

mrnyc Jun 3, 2024 5:08 PM

Here’s your chance to own a genuine NYC street sign!

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on June 3, 2024


Sign up, NYC!

The New York City Department of Transportation will start selling authentic New York City street signs to lucky customers hoping to put a piece of New York City right on their wall.

The first street sign up for sale on CityStore, the official gift shop of New York City’s government, is for the Stonewall Place block of Christopher Street in the West Village, the block where the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement began with the 1969 uprising at the Stonewall Inn. Fifty of the 36×9 inch signs, manufactured at the DOT’s Sign Shop in Maspeth, Queens, are on sale this month for $75 apiece.

“Our monthly sign drops will allow all who love New York City to celebrate the people, places, and special occasions that make this the greatest city in the world,” said DOT Commissioner Ydanis Rodriguez.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-dot...ign-sale-2024/

Busy Bee Jun 3, 2024 5:19 PM

Blue porcelain humpback signs can be regularly be had on Ebay. They average $500+ though typically. Classic Manhattan black on yellow can be had for less.

I'd love it if they would bring back the yellow signs. I absolutely hate the green UTCD federally "mandated" street signs pretty much anywhere. Some garbage about night visibility. NYCDOT missed an opportunity to drop the green and return to something unique with the mixed-case updating. Maybe in another 20 years...

mrnyc Jun 3, 2024 5:57 PM

yeah, street signage was better when it was individualized by cities. i never liked that mandated switchover to fed green. that was a dum fed overreach.

its fun they are offering them for sale — sounds like for cheaper than what is available now, so thats good.

Busy Bee Jun 3, 2024 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 10217582)
i never liked that mandated switchover to fed green. that was a dum fed overreach.

It's just misguided. I honestly wouldn't mind a federal standard if it was aesthetically pleasing. I just hate that shade of safety green. It sucks. Interstates and highways? Fine. But it shouldn't have trickled down to asking cities and towns to surrender to the standard of high speed auto travel.

Thank goodness San Francisco has kept their lovely white and black signage.

Nexis4Jersey Jun 3, 2024 7:04 PM

I redid a few subway stations on Friday with my 11mm lens which makes it possible to capture the artwork and station details in a cramp space.

81st Street - Museum of Natural History

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fbf42f70_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e7ae4226_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...21aa5f8c_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...edcbb091_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8e087482_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2c5b8f84_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a32bb985_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...87cb7ca4_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ab3fbaf8_c.jpg

Lexington Ave - 63rd Street

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1fc0ba92_c.jpg

42nd Street Connector, formerly the Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle Track.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9c9fbe31_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...390137d0_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f06ffb61_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0b2756bf_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7444100f_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7f73b0cf_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d9edfcbd_c.jpg

23rd Street on the IND 6th avenue line

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dfde57e0_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5aa6beff_c.jpg

R179 Rockaway Park Shuttle train departing Beach 90th Street

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67d6f9dd_c.jpg

R211 A train at Far Rockaway - Mott Ave

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...32825a8a_c.jpg

mrnyc Jun 3, 2024 7:46 PM

^ nice lexis -- the museum has a very colorful station.

i miss the old mermaid-people at the jfk A train station, that was my favorite station artwork. they were lost when the airtrain came and the station was rebuilt to blandness.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 10217616)
It's just misguided. I honestly wouldn't mind a federal standard if it was aesthetically pleasing. I just hate that shade of safety green. It sucks. Interstates and highways? Fine. But it shouldn't have trickled down to asking cities and towns to surrender to the standard of high speed auto travel.

Thank goodness San Francisco has kept their lovely white and black signage.

yes, i meant at the city level -- for highways its ok.

i wonder how sf was able to keep their old street signage? i thought the feds would remove $$ if you didn't comply? richy rich sf i guess lol.

dchan Jun 3, 2024 10:28 PM

I remember a lot of white street signs with blue lettering when I grew up in the 90's. I liked seeing the street signs change color and style when you went from one county into another, or one township/city into another.

sopas ej Jun 3, 2024 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 10217582)
yeah, street signage was better when it was individualized by cities. i never liked that mandated switchover to fed green. that was a dum fed overreach.

???

The feds made NYC change its street signs to green? I just assumed that's just what NYC chose to switch over to. Aren't there some districts that have different colored street signs? I could've sworn I've seen fairly recent pictures of some NYC intersections with blue or brown street signs.

Here in California, street signs run the gamut of colors. City of Los Angeles street signs are white lettering/numbers on a blue background, and many older signs still exist. What seems to be the trend here among cities in newer street signs is that many are now switching to upper/lower case, instead of all caps. I noticed the newest Beverly Hills street signs are upper/lower case, but they're still black lettering on a white background.


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.