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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

lawfin Dec 8, 2009 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 4595893)
..... Its a great location for a station because that area of town has essentially no transit access which is why its completely dead.

The Peterson Bus puts you on the red line in about 7 minutes from that location. I took it nearly everyday when I was a kid

ardecila Dec 8, 2009 1:16 AM

Well, it's only a short walk from Ravenswood Metra to Damen on the Brown Line... about 1/4 mile, platform-to-platform.

Mr Downtown Dec 8, 2009 4:20 AM

Isn't it more logical to transfer from UP-N to CTA at Evanston Davis Street or at Ogilvie–Washington/Wells?

Nowhereman1280 Dec 8, 2009 5:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 4596175)
The Peterson Bus puts you on the red line in about 7 minutes from that location. I took it nearly everyday when I was a kid

I'm well aware of that bus, I sometimes take it to the 11 when I have to work out in Southeast Skokie. Problem is, it runs every like 10 min at its most frequent. One bus route that comes every ten minutes isn't exactly stellar transit access. A rail station there will completely open that area up. I've always wanted to move out to that area between Andersonville and the Metra tracks, but have never done it because it would take like 50 min to get downtown. Adding a Metra station makes that like a 5 min walk and a 15 min train ride away.

Mr Downtown Dec 8, 2009 3:13 PM

^Wait, wait, I'm just writing this down . . .

bus every 10 minutes = "not exactly stellar transit access" . . .

commuter train once an hour = life-changing improvement.

Marcu Dec 8, 2009 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4596974)
^Wait, wait, I'm just writing this down . . .

bus every 10 minutes = "not exactly stellar transit access" . . .

commuter train once an hour = life-changing improvement.

The issue is overall time spent commuting. Most people can plan for a train operating 3-4 times an hour at rush hour and once an hour otherwise, but there is no way to plan around a 60+minute commute involving the Peterson bus and the far reaches of the redline.

So to summarize...

Bus every ten minutes + redline for 30 to 50 minutes = not stellar transit accesss.

commuter train once an hour that takes 10 to 20 minutes to get to the Loop, and downtown Evanston= life-changing improvement.

It is highly improbable that this part of the northside will ever reach a critical mass of higher income workers without faster access to employment centers that are larger than the Edgewater nursing home district (ie the Loop).

emathias Dec 8, 2009 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 4596005)
Poke around on Bing.com ...

FYI: Bing really doesn't work well in Firefox, and barely works at all in Firefox running on Linux (which is what I'm using). Google Maps, on the other hand, seem to work well in all browser/OS combinations I've tried.

VivaLFuego Dec 8, 2009 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 4597090)
FYI: Bing really doesn't work well in Firefox, and barely works at all in Firefox running on Linux (which is what I'm using). Google Maps, on the other hand, seem to work well in all browser/OS combinations I've tried.

And until Google Maps adds a Bird's Eye View...

Taft Dec 8, 2009 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4596974)
^Wait, wait, I'm just writing this down . . .

bus every 10 minutes = "not exactly stellar transit access" . . .

commuter train once an hour = life-changing improvement.

Snarky/obtuse much?

Seriously, have you actually considered what a typical commute might look like? And have you considered that many people--regardless of whether it is fair or accurate in your mind--don't consider buses as convenient or reliable as trains? I actually think that a solid majority do not consider busses as convenient (though I admit I have no data to back up my gut feeling).

If you want to live in a fantasy world where busses=trains to everyone, be my guest. But that attitude just isn't helpful when considering the practical effects of transit plans.

+1 what Marcu said.

lawfin Dec 8, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 4596615)
I'm well aware of that bus, I sometimes take it to the 11 when I have to work out in Southeast Skokie. Problem is, it runs every like 10 min at its most frequent. One bus route that comes every ten minutes isn't exactly stellar transit access. A rail station there will completely open that area up. I've always wanted to move out to that area between Andersonville and the Metra tracks, but have never done it because it would take like 50 min to get downtown. Adding a Metra station makes that like a 5 min walk and a 15 min train ride away.

I agree that a Metra stop there will of course be beneficial to the area and may promote ridership among those who eschew buses. I simply wanted to point out that the area is not exactly a transit desert.

The transit access in that area is better than probabably 95% of America, and better than most of the rest of the Metro area as well.

This is one of my biggest issues with the strip of Western north of peterson up to Granville on the east side and up to nearly Rosemont on the west side.

They could easily make the area a higher density hub....I think western is b3-2 if I am not mistaken....the intersection of Peterson / Western are bus access point to brown and red lines in about 15 minutes or so....bad traffic can impact that....

Yet the development there post fall of CJames, ZFrank and the other dealerships is slated for the worst of autocentric walgreen infused horribleness...

With the Metra station now only a 5 minute bus ride from this strip..this redevelopment of Western north of peterson is a travesty that will impact west ridge for at least 50 years


Both Ald. Pat OConnor and the somnambulant Bernie Stone should be called on the carpet for this.

Thundertubs Dec 8, 2009 10:57 PM

^^^ I drove past that stretch the other day. I have fairly low standards for Western as an urban street, but I was still surprised at how blitzed it was.

lawfin Dec 8, 2009 11:16 PM

^^Its brutal and it does not need to be. I grew up right behind what was ZFrank / CJames.

This strip was quite busy in it day with all the traffic a busy car dealership generated.....now indeed it does look blitzed.

I don't understand why there are not higher standards for this strip....

If walgreens want to get in ...do something like CVS as Damen and Lawrence....god if Damen can handle a 4-5 story mixed use Western certainly can..
I really think the alderman should have reached out to members of the Indian / Pakistani community and searched for developers who might be interested in creating a strip that runs from Devon south to Peterson.

The opportunity that now is presented at Western north of Peterson is one of the most unheralded chances the north side has had in 50 years to develop some continous density at the nexus of two major transit intersections.....PEterson / Western to Red / Brown line. Hell even the 155 Devon to the redline is not that long of ride to the red line.

This should be promoted but instead some connected developer is going to drop a walgreen parking lot where we could have some sustainable density / mixed use and transit interchange.

Instead we get autocentric Golf Road style shiza that will only further marginilise there area instead of embracing the transit modalities that are currently present and underappreciated.

Now with possibled metra interconnectivity literallyt a 5 minute bus from Peterson & Western.....any development that does not embrace this is not only poor design....it is criminally negligent in era where we should be promoting auto independence and promoting transit lifestyle instead of reinforcing sprawlville, autocentric, gaswhoring, in the city no less


It irritates me....obviously

EDIT:
Checked the zoning map and it appears it is c2-2; the intricacies of the distinction between c and b zoning I am not clear about ; but it does say c2-2 does allow residential above the 1st floor.....and the lot frontages would allow buildings of about 50 ft.....enough for 5 floors......instead the siht parking lot sandwich that makes any neighborhood oh so more appealing.


Also OLD Bernie Stone website actually proclaims how great it is to have this new walgreens at glenlake and western......that guy is a schmuck!

Thundertubs Dec 9, 2009 12:01 AM

^^^ It's kind of a tough situation with Western, though. The car traffic is so heavy that it has a strongly negative effect on demand for residential development. I know I'd sure as heck never want to live on that street, even on the 4th floor. Damen isn't a bad street to live on because it's two lanes and the traffic isn't too heavy (as it's siphoned off by faster, stop sign-free Ashland and Western).
Not to say that development will never happen there, but the traffic is a hurdle to overcome.

VivaLFuego Dec 9, 2009 12:17 AM

^C2 is the auto-oriented business classification - not surprising, since it was a car dealership. C2 is relatively rare, meaning developers will highly value the ability to build suburban style crapola since people jump at the opportunity to use strip mall retail once it's built, and chain retailers like it because it's what they're used to. In general, other than C2, the only other zoning that would allow such junk is M(anufacturing) - hence the big boxorama that generally follows the North Branch of the river.

The battle on that stretch of Western if already lost. The only possible saving grace is pedestrian street designation along Devon, which should at least protect Devon from becoming an auto sewer like Western even if the beautiful commercial architecture is vulnerable due to the lack of landmarking. That said, along and north of Devon there is quite a bit of R4 zoning (generally means 3 units per city lot), so it's already dense and in some places could actually get denser - a rarity for the North Side, most of which is zoned well below the actual built density due to the triumphs of decades of neighborhood NIMBYism. Most of the few areas that weren't zoned below the existing density were basically totally rebuilt during the boom - think Old Town south of North Ave and west of Sedgwick, Lakeview between Clark and Broadway and south of Roscoe, the few pockets of unlandmarked southern Lincoln Park, and so on.

lawfin Dec 9, 2009 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundertubs (Post 4597940)
^^^ It's kind of a tough situation with Western, though. The car traffic is so heavy that it has a strongly negative effect on demand for residential development. I know I'd sure as heck never want to live on that street, even on the 4th floor. Damen isn't a bad street to live on because it's two lanes and the traffic isn't too heavy (as it's siphoned off by faster, stop sign-free Ashland and Western).
Not to say that development will never happen there, but the traffic is a hurdle to overcome.

Perhaps but I was thinking rentals could still possoibly work especially given the immigration profile of the area.....immigrant magent....often look for apt versus ownership.....renters may be less picky over that sort of thing...not sure thoughh

lawfin Dec 9, 2009 1:31 AM

Also further south...not even that much further south....I am thinking roughly Catalpa on south they have been building some 4-5 story resid......probably condo; and probably not doing to well


It just seems again with that intersection....two bus routes to two major L lines....and now even faster connection to Metra it is a sad, sad development.

Nowhereman1280 Dec 9, 2009 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4596974)
^Wait, wait, I'm just writing this down . . .

bus every 10 minutes = "not exactly stellar transit access" . . .

commuter train once an hour = life-changing improvement.

Yes. You may be the expert on Chicago zoning history and urban planning, but I live in the area and try to use the Peterson bus to commute on a regular basis and it just downright sucks. The Peterson bus comes every 10 min at its most frequent and probably averages more like 20 min for most of the day. The thing that makes neighborhoods really take off is not one bus line that provides you marginal access to a transfer point, its direct and speedy access to a large source of high paying jobs. Having a station there will allow people to actually live in this area and commute to jobs downtown and Evanston. Right now no right minded working professional who doesn't drive is going to live in West Andersonville or whatever this area of town is technically classified as (North Andersonville? West Edgewater?). That's why its current filled with gated car communities and retirement homes. What happens when you build a Metra station? Then people are able to actually live here and work downtown without dealing with snarled traffic. There are lots of absolutely wonderful streets in this area like Elmdale and Norwood that have basically no transit access on their Western ends. This will change that.

A commute is just not reliable when you have to go outside ten minutes before the bus is supposed to come on Bustracker (5 min walk and 5 min buffer) and then take the 84 for 5 more min. Then transfer to the Redline (anywhere from a 5 min wait to a 20 min wait depending on how crappy the CTA is being). Then take the Red line for 35-40 min. And then take a 5-10 min walk to your building. That adds up to 45-60 min. Metra = like 15-20. Much more appealing.

Marcu Dec 9, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundertubs (Post 4597940)
^^^ It's kind of a tough situation with Western, though. The car traffic is so heavy that it has a strongly negative effect on demand for residential development. I know I'd sure as heck never want to live on that street, even on the 4th floor. Damen isn't a bad street to live on because it's two lanes and the traffic isn't too heavy (as it's siphoned off by faster, stop sign-free Ashland and Western).
Not to say that development will never happen there, but the traffic is a hurdle to overcome.

There has been some decent, urban development in West Ridge/north Lincoln Square/west Edgewater over the last ten years along major streets. It hasn't been all crap. For example the senior residences right next to where this stop will go is decently urban and quite tall for the area. The Lincoln/Peterson area has also had some 4 story+ buildings go up. And not all new development needs to be residential. All hope is lost for Western from Howard to Devon (an area not pedestrian accessible to any train station anyway), but it doesn't have to be for Western from Devon to Peterson and for Peterson from Lincoln to Ravenswood.

lawfin Dec 9, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 4598168)
A commute is just not reliable when you have to go outside ten minutes before the bus is supposed to come on Bustracker (5 min walk and 5 min buffer) and then take the 84 for 5 more min. Then transfer to the Redline (anywhere from a 5 min wait to a 20 min wait depending on how crappy the CTA is being). Then take the Red line for 35-40 min. And then take a 5-10 min walk to your building. That adds up to 45-60 min. Metra = like 15-20. Much more appealing.

Just for shits and grins I google mapped the commute time from Peterson / Western to where the new station is proposed

CTA: 6 minutes
Walking: 15 minutes


I agree that the Metra station if properly integrated into plannin decisions could be a game changer

I mean 6 minutes to the Metra on the bus.....with bustracker available that means you can pretty much get your commute time down pat.



The fact that TOD is not beig considered along this strip of Western when it is 6 minute from a proposed Metra station.....is just plain stupid......but not surprising given Old BErnie Stone.....that guy need to be put outside and left

6 minute bus ride / 15 minute walk an old Bernie and is octagenerian minions are jumping up and down about suburban style, shit-tacular, garbage.


This simple should not be allowed....ahh



That part of town needs new blood......not some old jewish guy who can barley open his eyes as he waddles his way around town....in the process farcockting up streetscapes and planning decisions as a matter of course.........schmegege

emathias Dec 9, 2009 9:41 PM

I really wish Apple would do this when they "freshen up" North/Clyborn:

http://www.on-a.es/newsletter/090423/ona_06.jpg
From the Arquitechura website. Click on the image for more info about their station update at the Drassanes station in Barcelona.


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