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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

denizen467 Dec 4, 2009 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4590046)
Can we get back to talking about transit developments in Chicagoland?

Also, Can we get back to talking about transit developments in Chicagoland that don't involve stinky things?

emathias Dec 4, 2009 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 4590293)
In general, it's difficult to develop effective deterrents to people who feel like they've got nothing to lose.

Hence my "beat the living daylights" phrase. Even the basest of humans respond to corporal punishment when it has a specific goal. It may not work if you just say, "Be good," but if you say "Don't do this one thing," it works pretty well.

ChicagoChicago Dec 4, 2009 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 4590344)
Um, I got on the red line one day and found that someone had shit on the floor at the back of one of the cars. It was in the area that would be closed off for just the driver if the car was turned around. I immediately turned around and found a seat elsewhere in the car. I must admit it was rather entertaining watching after each stop the reactions of people as they entered the back part of the car.

The stench hadn't permeated the entire car? I've experienced the same thing before, and it was heinous! I had to transfer cars between stops.

spyguy Dec 7, 2009 5:50 AM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,1557944.story

Metra on track to rehab and rebuild dozens of stations
By Richard Wronski
December 7, 2009


Lattes flow for commuters at Tinley Park's $5 million Metra station, an architectural gem. But the only thing flowing at Cicero's dreary train stop is the rainwater that blows through the corrugated-metal shelter.
---
New stations in bold
- Healy
- Mayfair
- Grayland
- Peterson/Ridge
- Hubbard Woods
- Fox River Grove
- Cumberland
- Elmhurst
- Geneva
- River Forest
- Naperville
- Cicero
- Downers Grove Main Street
- Romeoville
- Flossmoor
- Hazel Crest
- Burr Oak
- 59th Street
- 63rd Street
- Calumet
- Ashland Avenue
- Racine Avenue
- Auburn Park
- 91st Street
- 115th Street
- Hickory Creek
- Blue Island/Vermont Avenue

This list does not include the new 35th Street station or rebuilding the 80th Avenue station in Tinley Park.

ardecila Dec 7, 2009 7:19 AM

Cool. The Auburn-Gresham Development Corporation plans for the Auburn Park Metra station to be located at Winneconna and Fielding; this seems like a cool site with a lot of potential, although an Englewood station at 69th would be better from a transit-planning perspective (it would serve SouthWest Service trains after they are rerouted into LaSalle Street).

No idea where the Romeoville stop would go; I could really care less, since the Heritage Corridor actually runs across the river from Romeoville, through the middle of nowhere.

Peterson/Ridge is interesting. I'm always supportive of additional transit in the city, but I wonder how much of that crowding at Ravenswood will evaporate now that the Brown Line is back up? Ravenswood is supposed to be rebuilt very soon while Metra replaces the bridges on the North line; that's not on your list either. If traffic at the new station is low, we'll get another one of those "ghost" stations that trains never seem to stop at, like Gladstone Park or Mars, but whose maintenance still saddles Metra's budget.

denizen467 Dec 7, 2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4595052)
...
very soon while Metra replaces the bridges on the North line

That's a lotta bridges, a lotta construction work - gonna take as much time as, like, rebuilding the tri-state (per below, first sub-phase is 8 bridges out of 22).

I'm curious how they will look. The new Purple Line bridges in Evanston still keep the brutalist-industrial vein, even for pretty short spans. I don't know whether that's just the cheapest way of doing it or not. There certainly are prettier ways a 20-yard viaduct could look. Some things in this city I like industrial/brutalist (e.g. LSD Chicago River Bridge), but for a rail viaduct every freakin' block through a residential neighborhood, I think it's a bit much.

As for timing and scope, ardecila let us know if you have more specifics than what's on their website:

http://metrarail.com/content/metra/e...lprojects.html
Union Pacific North Line Bridges: This project includes the initial phase of replacement for up to 22 bridges on the Union Pacific North Line in Chicago. These bridges are more than 100 years old and are showing increased deterioration. They must be replaced in order to provide uninterrupted commuter service. Nearly $40 million is programmed in this phase to replace necessary structures. Extensive track work and some commuter station modifications will be required. To ensure reliable train operations, various signal improvements will also be completed.


http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/a..._projects.html
Replacement of eight bridges at Balmoral, Foster, Winnemac, Lawrence, Leland, Wilson, Sunnyside and Montrose. Replacement of the Ravenswood Station will follow the bridge replacement project. Construction to begin fall 2010.

orulz Dec 7, 2009 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 4595127)
That's a lotta bridges, a lotta construction work - gonna take as much time as, like, rebuilding the tri-state (per below, first sub-phase is 8 bridges out of 22).

I'm curious how they will look. The new Purple Line bridges in Evanston still keep the brutalist-industrial vein, even for pretty short spans. I don't know whether that's just the cheapest way of doing it or not. There certainly are prettier ways a 20-yard viaduct could look. Some things in this city I like industrial/brutalist (e.g. LSD Chicago River Bridge), but for a rail viaduct every freakin' block through a residential neighborhood, I think it's a bit much.

As for timing and scope, ardecila let us know if you have more specifics than what's on their website:

http://metrarail.com/content/metra/e...lprojects.html
Union Pacific North Line Bridges: This project includes the initial phase of replacement for up to 22 bridges on the Union Pacific North Line in Chicago. These bridges are more than 100 years old and are showing increased deterioration. They must be replaced in order to provide uninterrupted commuter service. Nearly $40 million is programmed in this phase to replace necessary structures. Extensive track work and some commuter station modifications will be required. To ensure reliable train operations, various signal improvements will also be completed.

Will the new bridges still be wide enough to accommodate a third track?

Another track for express service would be beneficial especially if KRM actually winds up running all the way to Chicago.

Marcu Dec 7, 2009 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4595052)

Peterson/Ridge is interesting. I'm always supportive of additional transit in the city, but I wonder how much of that crowding at Ravenswood will evaporate now that the Brown Line is back up? Ravenswood is supposed to be rebuilt very soon while Metra replaces the bridges on the North line; that's not on your list either. If traffic at the new station is low, we'll get another one of those "ghost" stations that trains never seem to stop at, like Gladstone Park or Mars, but whose maintenance still saddles Metra's budget.

An additional Edgewater/south West Ridge /north Lincoln Square stop is an excellent idea. It's currently stuck in that gentrificationless middle area where commuting to the Loop is simply not practical, helping explain why the area houses more than its share of Section 8 residents, senior citizens, and otherwise marginally employable individuals. It can further fuel Andersenville's gentrification northward, where it can link up with the fairly vibrant Clark street commercial district in Rogers Park.

My only concern is the location. Ridge/Peterson don't intersect with the UPN tracks, so I'm assuming that the stop is going to be just west at Peterson and Ravenswood. That intersection does not have much room for redevelopment and it's adjacent to the Rosehill graveyard, making TOD virtually impossible. I'd prefer for the stop to be a few blocks north at Granville, where the little strip malls can be converted to more productive use.

ardecila Dec 7, 2009 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 4595127)
That's a lotta bridges, a lotta construction work - gonna take as much time as, like, rebuilding the tri-state (per below, first sub-phase is 8 bridges out of 22).

I'm curious how they will look. The new Purple Line bridges in Evanston still keep the brutalist-industrial vein, even for pretty short spans. I don't know whether that's just the cheapest way of doing it or not. There certainly are prettier ways a 20-yard viaduct could look. Some things in this city I like industrial/brutalist (e.g. LSD Chicago River Bridge), but for a rail viaduct every freakin' block through a residential neighborhood, I think it's a bit much.

Yes, it's a big project, about $200 million IIRC. A similar, smaller project was done a few years ago on the UP-NW line. I rode the line during that time period and don't remember too much disruption. The old plate girder bridges were replaced with new plate girder bridges in cor-ten, but the girders are deeper to allow the center posts to be removed. Retaining walls are reinforced with concrete to handle the weight of the larger span.

Since the UP-N and NW viaducts were built at the same time by the C&NW Railroad, I imagine they have similar construction, so the replacements would be the same as well.

Replacement bridges at Keeler/Irving Park


I doubt they will rebuild the bridges for the third track, although they will probably keep the first two tracks in their current locations, allowing for an express track to the west at a later date. Plate girder bridges are pretty modular, so you can expand them by just adding another bay.

As for the Peterson/Ridge station - the platform won't be at the intersection of Peterson and Ridge, it will stretch BETWEEN Peterson and Ridge, with stairs to both streets. Metra stations, especially urban ones without parking, don't take up much real estate. You build long, narrow platforms and a small station house to one side. Looks like some community gardens will get nixed, though.

Mr Downtown Dec 7, 2009 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 4595582)
I'm assuming that the stop is going to be just west at Peterson and Ravenswood.

Yes, train stops are generally located along the train tracks. :koko:

I think the idea is that there would be an exit at Peterson and another at Ridge.

The rationale eludes me, however. Overcrowding??? At a Metra station? How bad can it really be?

lawfin Dec 7, 2009 8:50 PM

My thinking is that the choice of Peterson / Ridge....seems a bit odd. That area is not at all ped friendly....the west strip of Peterson btw there and Western is in fact one of the least ped friendly strips on the entire northside.

I wonder if though this Metra station could spur more intense development of the strip where Carson's used to be, get rid of the White Castle and Develop perhaps a solid midrise type building in the 8-12 story range on the triangle at ridge / peterson / ashland....where the car wash is


I applaud the extra station just a little curious choice of placement I guess

It might make sense to rearrange the whole RP scheme....with a Howard station and a devon station....gettting rid of the lunt station....though that would be inconvenient for many including me....Lunt is my station

lawfin Dec 7, 2009 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4595652)
Yes, train stops are generally located along the train tracks. :koko:

I think the idea is that there would be an exit at Peterson and another at Ridge.

The rationale eludes me, however. Overcrowding??? At a Metra station? How bad can it really be?

There has been more than one occassion at the RP station where I could not get on the platform...

Additionally, there has been more than one occassion where I could not get on th train ; had to wait for the next train....

that is frustrating

lawfin Dec 7, 2009 8:54 PM

I really wish Metra would consider running higher frequency service.....particuliarly evenings and weekends.....

weekend service essentially sucks....

use money to increase service frequency

Via Chicago Dec 7, 2009 9:15 PM

Good to hear they're finally getting around to fixing that Cicero station...theres not much left of it.

Marcu Dec 7, 2009 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4595652)
Yes, train stops are generally located along the train tracks. :koko:

Yes. And I was pointing out that the tracks do not intersect Peterson/Rdge, where Metra said it intends to add a stop. It would have to be along Ravenswood at either Peterson or Ridge, but not at Peterson/Rdge.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4595652)
The rationale eludes me, however. Overcrowding??? At a Metra station? How bad can it really be?


Both the RP and the Ravenswood stations are some of the businest in the system. Additionally, both stations have a good number of street-park-and-ride commuters from Edgewater already who would otherwise board at the new stop and perhaps not drive.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 4595718)
My thinking is that the choice of Peterson / Ridge....seems a bit odd. That area is not at all ped friendly....the west strip of Peterson btw there and Western is in fact one of the least ped friendly strips on the entire northside.

That's true, but it's also one of the densest parts of the city. The demand is certainly there, but to spur TOD development I believe that the station should be at Granville where it wouldn't be blocked off by a graveyard, existing development, and otherwise pedestrian unfriendly conditions.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 4595718)


I applaud the extra station just a little curious choice of placement I guess

It might make sense to rearrange the whole RP scheme....with a Howard station and a devon station....gettting rid of the lunt station....though that would be inconvenient for many including me....Lunt is my station

Right now, the RP stop is walkable from almost any part of Rogers Park in under 20 minutes. That's generally regarded as the threshhold at which people will be willing to walk to a transit stop. So in that sense, it captures a huge chunk of the population fairly well. Additionally, the Lunt/Greenleaf/Morse area is the political power base of RP, so a change is highly unlikely.

Mr Downtown Dec 7, 2009 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 4595850)
the tracks do not intersect Peterson/Rdge, where Metra said it intends to add a stop. It would have to be along Ravenswood at either Peterson or Ridge, but not at Peterson/Rdge.

There's no intersection of 51st/53rd, either. Peterson/Ridge means there will be entrances from both streets, not that it will be at the intersection of Peterson and Ridge.

I don't think redevelopment or planning considerations entered into Metra's thinking. They just put it halfway between Ravenswood and Rogers Park.

Nowhereman1280 Dec 7, 2009 10:02 PM

A station at Peterson would be wildly popular and extremely beneficial for that area. Its a great location for a station because that area of town has essentially no transit access which is why its completely dead. By building a station there they will essentially cause the entire clark and ashland and ridge and peterson area to gentrify. That area has a lot of willy-nilly streets and quite a nice housing stock and could make for an excellent northward extension of Andersonville. Perhaps one day Clark will have excellent street life all the way to Devon linking two of Chicago's most interesting areas together?

nomarandlee Dec 7, 2009 10:59 PM

When talking about new UP-N stations I am a bit surprised that there aren't plans to make a transfer station with the Brown Line somewhere. It would seem that a transfer station particularly at Addison/Lincoln could be a worthwhile endeavor.

VivaLFuego Dec 7, 2009 11:07 PM

Poke around on Bing.com Bird's Eye or Google Street View, particularly to the north and west of Peterson/Ravenswood, extending all the way to Granville/Hamilton. You might be surprised at how dense that area already is. Unfortunately, the zoning is not very high, so there will be limited potential for it to get denser.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...C%20IL%2060660

orulz Dec 7, 2009 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 4595985)
When talking about new UP-N stations I am a bit surprised that there aren't plans to make a transfer station with the Brown Line somewhere. It would seem that a transfer station particularly at Addison/Lincoln could be a worthwhile endeavor.

Yeah, Addison would be about halfway between Ravenswood and Clybourn, though Irving Park could also be an option.


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